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Nevander

[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

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15 hours ago, Nevander said:

I only set it on the player because literally every other actor in the game would have gotten lower gravity. If the player is the only actor that feels like the gravity is lower, the rest looks normal.

I don't understand the logic behind this. All items in Doom 64 fall at the same rate. So why, in here, should only the player have the gravity level set? It makes no sense. The only items that it makes sense to exclude from the lower gravity are item pickups that monsters drop, due to ZDoom's added effect (instead of just spawning on the floor).

 

What I suggested would be far closer to how the original game behaved.

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9 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

@Nevander GZDoom 3.0.1 was released. I tested this mod and now it works fine with the 32-bit version...

 

That was actually a problem with a third party library. Believe it or not: Apparently, recent MinGW compilers create Windows-incompatible code when told to use SSE2... :?

I had to revert to the old version of the library to fix the problem.

 

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19 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

That was actually a problem with a third party library. Believe it or not: Apparently, recent MinGW compilers create Windows-incompatible code when told to use SSE2... :?

I had to revert to the old version of the library to fix the problem.

 

Oh, really?. That's unfortunate...

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3 hours ago, Blastfrog said:

I don't understand the logic behind this. All items in Doom 64 fall at the same rate. So why, in here, should only the player have the gravity level set? It makes no sense. The only items that it makes sense to exclude from the lower gravity are item pickups that monsters drop, due to ZDoom's added effect (instead of just spawning on the floor).

 

What I suggested would be far closer to how the original game behaved.

Because when everything is at the same tic-rate it looks fine, like it does in Doom 64, but here in GZDoom even if everything is the same gravity it will still look wrong regardless. I tried this already and everything looked like it was on the moon. Having only the player affected looks the most natural or else everything is going to fall slower and it will look very off balance with the rest of the gameplay.

 

Just because a suggestion would make it closer to the original doesn't make it a good decision. I've had to make dozes of these kinds of choices, and I choose what keeps gameplay the smoothest and the least awkward.

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Well, to be honest I'm not liking the approach you're taking with regard to many things. The smooth weapons should be off by default, the brightmaps and dynamic lights ought to be in their own optional archives, and pk3 is advantageous in every way. The story screen is also wholly unnecessary.

 

I don't get your issue with pk3, it's not some bizarre, arcane format. It's literally a zip with directories. Directories take the place of markers, and it's otherwise all the same! Except you get fast compression, better organization (can make subdirectories, I see in your WAD you've already created markers that serve that purpose), and yes, model support. Model support is something that clearly belongs in this project for one purpose: the unmaker's laser.

 

It's your project, I'm not telling you to make it any differently (all of my "should" statements are opinions, before anyone tries to suggest otherwise), but it's clear that you want to go a direction with it that I feel takes far too many liberties far too lightly. I just want plain, close as possible to vanilla Doom 64 (barring bugs or errors), but running in GZDoom instead of Doom 64 EX. Retribution clearly does not fit this purpose with all of the bells, whistles, and numerous deliberate and frankly careless inaccuracies.

 

You've done excellent work converting the levels but I flatly disagree with your design philosophy. May I fork Retribution?

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Just wait for @Erick194 and @Gerardo194's port if you want a perfect port. Obviously I am not appealing to you so maybe you'll enjoy theirs more. They already have everything from Doom 64 working in theirs, so I'm sure they'd be perfectly content with appealing to your every wish and desire for a perfect port. If you don't like what I've done, you're more than welcome to try and do any better.

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As much as I love Doom 64 even I'm not that anal about how items appear as they drop from enemies. I haven't even noticed such a thing until now.

It probably wasn't worded the best early on about this project being super duper authentic and ultra accurate, but it's certainly a helluva lot more believable than most other D64 related projects. Again Doom 64 EX is the real deal, unless Erick and Gerardo can match it with theirs. Retribution is clearly doing its own things but it's still welcome and appreciated in my eyes and I'm not going to miss really peculiar details that're omitted from the source material, so long as the look of the game, the atmosphere, sound, music, levels, map related scripts and triggers, and general enemy and weapon behavior are preserved optimally Nevander can take as many liberties as wants. What's been done so far isn't so out there as to be wholly unrecognizable IMHO.

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Added a toggle option to always or never show map names when maps are loaded. I know some were opposed to that, so I am adding a check if they should be shown. Version 1.3 is shaping up to be a huge update, which will have lots of minor improvements, this option, map sound reverbs (with a toggle for those too), and the Retribution episode. I don't have a release date planned since I still have lots of map work to do. I hope before the end of next month. Sorry for the long ass wait on the new maps.

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Greetings, I see excited people mentioning to my brother and I. It's to hard for see.

To let you know, the PSX Doom/Final Doom and Doom 64 Ex Master Edition by  G.E.C. is 75% complete. Just 25% left. These three projects will be released together, 

You will see what we have done so far, you have seen so much though...

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9 hours ago, Nevander said:

Added a toggle option to always or never show map names when maps are loaded. I know some were opposed to that, so I am adding a check if they should be shown. Version 1.3 is shaping up to be a huge update, which will have lots of minor improvements, this option, map sound reverbs (with a toggle for those too), and the Retribution episode. I don't have a release date planned since I still have lots of map work to do. I hope before the end of next month. Sorry for the long ass wait on the new maps.

Long ass wait? No, don't be sorry. Take your time. What's worthwhile takes its time and you're here replying so it's not that you've gone MIA. Also, again, ignore nitpicking. You've done a lot of work yourself and still keep refining it. Keep it up!

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5 hours ago, Gerardo194 said:

Greetings, I see excited people mentioning to my brother and I. It's to hard for see.

To let you know, the PSX Doom/Final Doom and Doom 64 Ex Master Edition by  G.E.C. is 75% complete. Just 25% left. These three projects will be released together, 

You will see what we have done so far, you have seen so much though...

Now that is exciting news. Let's hope for the best!

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On 5/1/2017 at 11:19 AM, StalkerZHS said:

Windows 7 Pro

I've been able to get it to launch twice (both times i started it into software mode) but after changing software settings, I couldn't launch it again

 

just now I made a copy of my gzdoom 2.4.0 and overwrit that with 3.0.0, launched into openGL, changed settings, and it seems THAT works totally fine...

Hmm must be version 3 then, I use 2.4.0 on Windows 10 and it seems to work alright... do you still have an older copy of GZDoom on your PC?

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On 5/3/2017 at 10:02 AM, Gerardo194 said:

Greetings, I see excited people mentioning to my brother and I. It's to hard for see.

To let you know, the PSX Doom/Final Doom and Doom 64 Ex Master Edition by  G.E.C. is 75% complete. Just 25% left. These three projects will be released together, 

You will see what we have done so far, you have seen so much though...

Ok, this just came out of nowhere for me. I'm unable to google any information regarding these projects.

Do you have any screenshots? Where is the dev post showing off these projects?

 

Edit: I don't mean to hijack this thread. Just PM me with the material requested.

I still like Retribution and I stand by it. I collect nearly all things Doom64 and I consider this to be one of my centerpieces.

Edited by Houndoom

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On 5/3/2017 at 8:14 PM, DoctorGenesis said:

Hmm must be version 3 then, I use 2.4.0 on Windows 10 and it seems to work alright... do you still have an older copy of GZDoom on your PC?

Older than 2.4? No. 2.4 works fine so I use that on the one i'm having problems with.

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On 4/14/2017 at 2:27 PM, cyan0s1s said:


I find that hilariously peculiar that they'd omit the light amp from all other levels in the game, forcing you to deal with the darkness like a man.

Turning the Brightness setting up to maximum in the original Doom 64 produced exactly the same effect as picking up light-amp goggles, therefore making it a pointless power-up. Also, you may be surprised to realize that people other than men can withstand being in dark places, too.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if these issues have been noted already, but here's a few weird things I noticed from playing a few levels in Doom 64: Retribution. (Note that I'm using the 2016-2-21 SVN build of GZDoom. 2.2.something. I need to update this thing...but apparently not to version 3.0.0):

 

-Equipping the chainsaw actually seems to wake up monsters for some reason. You don't even have to fire it, just select it and bring it up on-screen, and nearby, non-deaf enemies will become alert. As far as I'm aware, this is abnormal behavior for any Doom game, let alone Doom 64.

 

-DSPDIEHI (the louder player death scream) sometimes plays when the player is killed. This sound effect was not in Doom 64.

 

-DSPOSIT3 (zombie sight sound) and DSPODTH3 (zombie death sound) never actually play in Doom 64. (These mystery sound effects also show up in the PSX Doom TC's despite never playing in the real PSX Doom games either, and I don't know where they came from. DSPOSIT3 in particular doesn't even sound finished, so I'm not sure why modders use it.)

 

-Using the classic weapon animations (I haven't tried the updated animations), the punch seems to inflict damage on a later frame than it should. There's a greater delay between when you press the fire button and when the punch actually connects than there should be. I have to "lead" my punches more than I would in the real game.

 

-The weapon switching is way too fast. It might seem like a minor thing, but when a spectre is biting your face off, being able to quickly switch to a new weapon gives you a greater advantage than you're supposed to have.

 

-In Map04, the first hell knight you encounter (near the soul sphere that triggers the red, flashing lights in the primary junction) shouldn't spawn until you grab the blue key, but it seems to appear immediately when the level starts.

 

-Some buttons can be pressed from height levels they shouldn't be accessible from. (For instance, the button on the super shotgun platform near the beginning of Outpost Omega can be pressed while standing on the floor below the platform. You can't do that in the real Doom 64, as you actually have to be on the SSG platform to press the button.) I know this was a bug in classic Doom, but isn't there a Hexen feature that forces the player to be at a certain Z-axis in order to activate a line trigger? I assume ZDoom would support that, too.

 

 

I really hope this mod won't succumb to feature bloat, and that the designer will focus on polish rather than adding lots of extra features. If players want extra things, they'll add them, themselves.

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2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-Equipping the chainsaw actually seems to wake up monsters for some reason. You don't even have to fire it, just select it and bring it up on-screen, and nearby, non-deaf enemies will become alert. As far as I'm aware, this is abnormal behavior for any Doom game, let alone Doom 64.

This was behavior from Doom 64 WMI which is the base for weapons and monsters I used when making the TC. That mod had made the Chainsaw alert upon being equipped and I left it in because it makes sense for it to do so.

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-DSPDIEHI (the louder player death scream) sometimes plays when the player is killed. This sound effect was not in Doom 64.

There is only the one death sound though. DOOM64.WAD only has one and my mod is using the only sound there is.

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-DSPOSIT3 (zombie sight sound) and DSPODTH3 (zombie death sound) never actually play in Doom 64. (These mystery sound effects also show up in the PSX Doom TC's despite never playing in the real PSX Doom games either, and I don't know where they came from. DSPOSIT3 in particular doesn't even sound finished, so I'm not sure why modders use it.)

They are both inside DOOM64.WAD, and they are used in my mod since they are part of the original sound effects.

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-Using the classic weapon animations (I haven't tried the updated animations), the punch seems to inflict damage on a later frame than it should. There's a greater delay between when you press the fire button and when the punch actually connects than there should be. I have to "lead" my punches more than I would in the real game.

Both classic and modern calls A_Punch when the fist sprite is furthest out. I myself just noticed though the classic punching is faster than the modern one. Punching random things in classic mode seems fine for me, it's hitting when I am expecting it to.

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-The weapon switching is way too fast. It might seem like a minor thing, but when a spectre is biting your face off, being able to quickly switch to a new weapon gives you a greater advantage than you're supposed to have.

This was an intended change so the weapon switch speed would match to the pace of the rest of the gameplay.

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-In Map04, the first hell knight you encounter (near the soul sphere that triggers the red, flashing lights in the primary junction) shouldn't spawn until you grab the blue key, but it seems to appear immediately when the level starts.

Actually it seems to spawn after taking the Chaingun in that lift thing near the outside area. Anyway, it's fixed for 1.3.

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

-Some buttons can be pressed from height levels they shouldn't be accessible from. (For instance, the button on the super shotgun platform near the beginning of Outpost Omega can be pressed while standing on the floor below the platform. You can't do that in the real Doom 64, as you actually have to be on the SSG platform to press the button.) I know this was a bug in classic Doom, but isn't there a Hexen feature that forces the player to be at a certain Z-axis in order to activate a line trigger? I assume ZDoom would support that, too.

There is no button near the Super Shotgun, perhaps you meant the green armor. Nevertheless, I have just added the switch height check flag to that switch. For some reason it was missing. Most switches (in fact pretty much all of them) should have the check on their lines. One problem though is that you can still do item grabs on the armor and shotgun. This I cannot fix unless I raise the platforms up higher which would mean changing the original sector height or use dummy items and then switch them with ACS once you should be allowed to reach them (I did this already for a couple maps in 1.2).

 

 

2 hours ago, Megamur said:

I really hope this mod won't succumb to feature bloat, and that the designer will focus on polish rather than adding lots of extra features. If players want extra things, they'll add them, themselves.

What features constitute "feature bloat" to you? The majority of features I did add are all choices, and even more choices to come in 1.3. The level names appearing will be a choice, the map reverbs will be a choice, animations are a choice, casings are a choice, and a lot of other "features" like dynamic lights are toggleable on the user side right there in the options. Please don't be the kind of person to complain about something like new animations or casings ejecting from the weapons when you don't have to use them and can turn them off. Gotten enough of that already.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Megamur said:

I really hope this mod won't succumb to feature bloat, and that the designer will focus on polish rather than adding lots of extra features. If players want extra things, they'll add them, themselves.

All added features can be disabled easily in the options...I don't see the problem there, unless that you're a purist. Remember that this mod is an approximation or recreation of the original game in an advanced sourceport, NOT a 1:1 game. That's all.

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DSPDIEHI should also be replaced. if not, the defualt Doom 93 loud death sound will play instead.

Just replace DSPDIEHI with the same soundfile as the regular DSPLDETH death scream.

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5 hours ago, Megamur said:

Also, you may be surprised to realize that people other than men can withstand being in dark places, too.

What did that have to do with my simple jest? Either way my apologies for your sensibilities, ma'am?

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6 hours ago, Megamur said:

-The weapon switching is way too fast. It might seem like a minor thing, but when a spectre is biting your face off, being able to quickly switch to a new weapon gives you a greater advantage than you're supposed to have.

I believe this is something that has come up before, so here. A patch that slows weapon switching (it also flips the chainsaw-fist order, and removes the no weapon switch on the chainsaw since I built it in to a previous patch.)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B54PxECTuW7uTDRfcEVmLXdSV1k

Making these patches is a nice intro to decorate at least, can't really be sure if people are using them though. :P

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The best thing about patches like that is it allows those who want me to change things that I personally don't want to change in my mod to change for themselves. Really at the start of the entire project the point for me was to make a version of Doom 64 that I enjoy playing and that is more in line with the original game. Something that I can play and feel like I am playing the original game but with these such improvements. Perhaps using the terms faithful and accurate was a mistake from the beginning, but at the same time even with what minor enhancements I've made it still IS faithful and accurate to a degree, so it's on both sides of the spectrum.

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4 minutes ago, Nevander said:

The best thing about patches like that is it allows those who want me to change things that I personally don't want to change in my mod to change for themselves. Really at the start of the entire project the point for me was to make a version of Doom 64 that I enjoy playing and that is more in line with the original game. Something that I can play and feel like I am playing the original game but with these such improvements. Perhaps using the terms faithful and accurate was a mistake from the beginning, but at the same time even with what minor enhancements I've made it still IS faithful and accurate to a degree, so it's on both sides of the spectrum.

That's why I said that this mod is a recreation of the original one. If you want a gorish experience, play BD64. A harder experience? Absolution is the one. A closer experience? Play Doom64 EX instead. I like this one because it's highly customizable, which you can perfectly mix the gameplay of one of those mods that I mentioned, or using none of the features at all.

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On 5/7/2017 at 11:58 AM, Nevander said:

But I never hear DSPDIEHI in my mod when I die, only DSPLDETH.

It did play in your mod and it caught me of guard.

I thought it would be fixed by 1.2 but it wasn't.

I suggest you replace the file for the next fix.

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4 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

It did play in your mod and it caught me of guard.

I thought it would be fixed by 1.2 but it wasn't.

I suggest you replace the file for the next fix.

Well, when the heck is it supposed to play? Because I went to try to get it to play and it eventually played but I must have killed myself over 100 times in both my mod and in classic Doom as well.

 

The reason it wasn't fixed by 1.2 is because I didn't know about it until Megamur posted it, but I never heard that death sound before in all my testing and playing. It must have really low chances of playing or is caused by a specific damage amount or something weird like that.

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56 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Well, when the heck is it supposed to play? Because I went to try to get it to play and it eventually played but I must have killed myself over 100 times in both my mod and in classic Doom as well.

 

The reason it wasn't fixed by 1.2 is because I didn't know about it until Megamur posted it, but I never heard that death sound before in all my testing and playing. It must have really low chances of playing or is caused by a specific damage amount or something weird like that.

Its suppose to play the regular death sound in D64.

It is a sound that is not heard often.

You seem super defensive man. Im only trying to help.

 

I also have experience with PSX/D64 conversions and i too encountered and fixed this issue in my mods.

 

Just replace the file with the same sound as the regular death. Simple.

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