The DWmegawad Club plays: Newgothic Movement 2 & Deus Vult II

I got a bad feeling about this but I'll give some maps a try.  Using saves liberally because I didn't last long without them.

Map 1:

    Cruelly placed archviles early on, this set doesn't wait very long to try to murder people.  I eventually get past when one gets distracted by a mancubus so I rocket out the other (and splatter the chaingunners with a missed shot or two).  Hellknights die to infighting.  The last one that hops in when taking the backpack, I rush down.  Not too hard to clean up after that, just don't get pinned.

    Camping in this room is viable for the next wave but I find it more fun to rush out and stir up some infights (and the spiders are a handy unlimited ammo plasma gun when I don't even have it yet.  Fairly easy for now until opening one of the side doors.  I've claimed the secret BFG by this point, it comes in handy soon.

    Attacking after opening either side door unleashes waves on two sides.  I happened to pick the side with all the flers trying to flank me.  It got panicky but I do somehow squeeze past the fliers into the starting area which is easier to defend.  One BFG shot to take out a pain elemental or two, SSG for the last.  I leave the other side door alone for now and move on.  Simple cleanup for the next bit, let the cyber and mancubi infight, finish off whoever's left, slowly clean out the chaingunner snipers zzzz...  The revenants on the other side remain blissfully unaware as I clear out the chaingunners.

    Showcase fight time.  I think the safest approach is to hightail it back to the side of the T-imtersection that one came from and aggressively clear out everything there to make an easily defensible spot.  I was crazy and wanted to maximize infights so my path was back towards where I came to rile up the cacos and mancubi, then make tracks for behind the spider mastermind while it's occupied with the cyber.  From there, it's coercing the cyber into the path of mancubus shots to use it as an unlimited ammo rocket launcher.  It does eventually succumb but it took out about 20 mancubi before then.  So at the end of the map (even after going back to finish off the ambush I skipped earlier), I count 15 rocket boxes left unused (and some of those stack in the same spot so the actual count is higher).

  OK, this map isn't too awful with saves.  Being able to skip some of the combat is welcome.  It felt really grindy at times and sometimes feels choreographed and/or predictable.  Nearly quit at the last setpiece because I wasn't enjoying it.  Still, if choreography is the order of the mapset, I may be better off playing Sunlust.

Oh, something else I forgot to mention is that the playthrough I sent does not include my full run of Deus Vult 2's Map29: Saint Peter's Gate. It basically is Deus Vult 1 all over again and since I already did Deus Vult 1, including map05, there was no point in doing it again.

Map 02

gzDoom - UV – pistol start/saves

Rough one. The claustrophobic start is really hard to get through successfully. So many imps (whoa!) and CG ers to the left and right forcing you forward to hit the switch for the crushers ASAP. I had an issue with the crushers not killing all of those pesky hitscanners, so that sucked. Then you’ll have to clear out a the rev/HK horder with the other half of imps down the hallway closing in on you. To top it all off, cacos start flying in. Like I said, rough start. Once you handle all that… things become a bit more manageable. Just don’t get stuck in this hall. It won’t go well.

I liked the use of shotgun guys high up top. Adds a bit of variety to the amount of chip damage you take while you run through and burn guys down bit by bit. Also a nice shotgun ammo dump once you make it up there to get the keys. There were a few roaming CG ers in the lava to watch for as well but nothing overly spiteful and obnoxious. It was nice to be able to stop and take a breath after finally reaching the door. Whew, that was crazy!

One thing that stands out to me in this map was the use of cyberdemons as just regular enemies. There were so many! Wow, I am not used to that. It gets insane sometimes but I loved it. Always fun fighting two at a time. Careful though as the plasma ammo runs out quickly. I was happy to have been gifted the BFG, that was nice.

I found this part a bit tricky. I figured out the sequence puzzle but the green teleport graphic lingers long enough for me to take damage while waiting for it to clear so I could see again. By the time it clears I would go flying from a rocket or take massive damage while trying to quickly see which pad is which. That was annoying. So I ended up clearing that whole room a tiny piece at a time. Took forever. I didn’t find the BK locked IV sphere all they useful either. Never found a use for the RK, hmm. I must have missed something.

The detailing of the caco holes is really neat. I always liked to think of cacodemons as nesting in their hives together. Being all cozy. Bunched together in their grossness and grinning at eachother.

I wasn’t able to stick around and clear out the rest of the enemies at the very end with the surprise double cybes and nobles but I came pretty close. I found it is a lot more fun trying to 100% these maps though. Still think the end of the first one seemed like a natural squeeze to the exit as I see a few people did the same. I ran out of ammo trying to grind things down in that teleport puzzle section here. Couldn’t get the buggers to infight to save my supply! There were a few secrets missed for sure too. Probably would’ve helped.

Also of note, the SMM at the end of the starting imp hall was pretty funny.

Right, just had a go at map02, think thats enough for me. Dunno what the deal is with those chaingunners, you may as well just have a damaging floor there and be done with it. I managed to get to the end of the corridor on the few attempts that the rng allowed me to survive, and the whole place is just filled with walls of meat. These kind of maps can be fun, but this one aint. Getting rid of the chaingunners might help.

I can at least be thankful that this is the 2nd map, I'm assuming it will carry on in this fashion. I'm gonna have a cup of tea and return on the 18th.

17 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Death Count: 4

 

A death counter?! Hoo boy, that's brave with this wad. Hahaha. I'd lose count every map I think. I get a kick out of putting a fresh save before a trigger or set up and just zerging the encounter over and over with deaths trying something different each time. Just hoping for that perfect combination of me making the right moves with accuracy and favorable RNG. Little less moment to moment save scumming that way, which is tedious. Unless it's REALLY difficult.

4 minutes ago, mouldy said:

I can at least be thankful that this is the 2nd map, I'm assuming it will carry on in this fashion. I'm gonna have a cup of tea and return on the 18th.

I understand your sentiments, map 2 is a beast but you should really try the next few maps. I don't think they are similar to map 2 at all and are quite fun.

Map02 start is one of the hardest parts of the wad.

NG2 map02

Fun map. Breaking free from the imps is an interesting task, and there are a couple approaches that work in a non-RNG way but I prefer taking out a couple of chaingunners first, and then using that as a safe area to spam some imps, and then advancing forward while spamming down the middle: one well placed rocket well get a whole horizontal row of imps, so you don't need to spam left and right too much. At that point you're still not safe, because you've got mid-tier monsters converging on you from both sides and a fleet of imps streaming down the hallway on the orders of a spider mastermind, who is personally too fat to get out and give chase and takes out some of that jealousy by shooting the imps. On the left it's revs and on the right it's HKs. The 'conventional' approach to the start is to charge down the left side of stairs (you don't want to try to dodge rockets at the top of those steps in prBoom+, and you have to get down fast before the revs swarm below), quickly clear out the revs, and occupy their cubby, standing your ground, and spamming some rockets. Doing this successfully allows you to clear out the rest of the start area, and ultimately the whole remainder of the map, in a more regimented fashion. But I like bypassing this area entirely and getting the BFG, and then going from there. That makes the return trip to the start area for maxing the map somewhat dangerous, as lots of monsters are eagerly waiting below for you. The conveniently placed megasphere secret makes this part go a lot more smoothly though. 

Afterwards there is some clean-up, which doesn't take too long, and there are some satisfying smaller skirmishes -- cybers to two-shot, spectres to spam with the BFG -- before the map's final area. The keys aren't necessary for completing the level but they allow you some choice goodies and their guardians are not too tough, so might as well grab them. The invul unlocked by the blue key allows you to better orchestrate some infighting in the last area, where it's not needed to play so aggressively to get a reasonably fast clear, if that's what you are going for, because the twin cybers are positioned to infight with lots of monsters that clump up at the door while you are camping. The sequence of the teleportation puzzle is something I just memorized a few months back when I played the map for the first time, instead of worrying too much about the 'logic'. The red key that you got earlier unlocks nothing but a lot of barons, which if I just told you nothing but that might seem silly, but unlocking them frees up some space for the two preplaced cybers and also gives them lots to infight with. 

Here is a casual max. For these, I'm not going to worry too much about optimizing stuff -- I still want to do other Doom stuff while participating in this month's DWMC. They are just simple demos.

New Gothic Movement 2: MAP02

MAX'D (save count: ahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahaahaah)

So believe it or not, the opening corridor is NOT the hardest part of the map by a long stretch.  It's a bit difficult to get down consistently, but I could blast through the imp hoards without dying more often than not.  No, the actual challenge of the map is finding a route to chop your way through to a foothold where you can work from to clear the map.  I have no shame in admitting that I looked up the map on YouTube to learn a good route in getting through this map.

Aesthetically, I don't think there's too much more to talk about that wasn't covered in the first map.  It's very similar in visuals, if a bit more wide open compared to the first map; not that you'll notice that on your first play due to the sheer amount of enemies stuffed into every nook and cranny of the map (case in point: that one room literally stuffed to the brim with Specters).  Challenge-wise, this feels like it would belong somewhere more in the back half of a WAD, though if that speaks for the difficulty level of the next few maps, then I swear the right to loading up Russian Overkill for the rest of my playthrough this month.

That said, I had fun blowing through this map for the most part, with the major exception of the teleporter maze near the end, which was more an exercise in tedium than anything else.  The final room might be a bit overstuffed though, with swarms of Barons in front of two Cyberdemons that you have to try and take care of Tricks and Traps style, with no benefit of an invincibility (unless you managed to drag the hidden one across the teleporter maze to the last room), only to unleash a swarm of Revs and Archviles into the room upon hitting the exit switch.  A single one of those encounters would've sufficed for a good end to the map; both feels like overkill.

MAP02

am I certain that this isn't a troll mapset or what is this. Seriously, how is it whenever I get a beginning situation like this the enemies are on -fast when they shouldn't be and I get mowed down before anything. 200/200 and half damage and I still die in 3 seconds. Also fuck the cyberdemon and arch-vile placement and fuck the teleporter maze in particular. This map is max-unfriendly.

Thankfully I played ahead to MAP03, and that was more my style. Will get to that one.

map02 fda

everyone has pretty much said what i was going to say!

the sore point in this map is the teleporter 'puzzle'; i dont think it works, it really slows down the map and as an actual puzzle it isnt very interesting. the challenge is working out the directions (F, L, or R) to go while not getting blasted - your gun sprite actually blocks the icon on in front of the teleporters when you start the sequence, which doesnt help - so i just quit the map, nomo'd it, and came back to walk through.

because im dumb i still messed it up a few times.

the end is funny. i saved after chasing the cybers around the baron-garage, and then realised id fucked up :D

21 hours ago, Ribbiks said:

1) draw pretty hallways --> oh yeah, this is supposed to be a slaughtermap!

 

--

glad to see you posting demos, i always enjoy them. i was hoping DotW would do some but no sign of him yet :(

4 hours ago, Demtor said:

A death counter?! Hoo boy, that's brave with this wad. Hahaha. I'd lose count every map I think. I get a kick out of putting a fresh save before a trigger or set up and just zerging the encounter over and over with deaths trying something different each time. Just hoping for that perfect combination of me making the right moves with accuracy and favorable RNG. Little less moment to moment save scumming that way, which is tedious. Unless it's REALLY difficult.

It's because I knew the map from a youtube video and also idclipping several times for testing purposes, so at least I had an idea of how to plan every movement, not that I'm doing this for every map lol

Anyway, does somebody know how to configure PrBoom+ so monsters don't fall off from where they are every time I shoot them? 

2 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Anyway, does somebody know how to configure PrBoom+ so monsters don't fall off from where they are every time I shoot them?

monster getting pushed off of ledges is kind of like an inherent feature of boom. This is due to conveyor belts. Don't think too much about it though.. If there's no block-line, things may get pushed off...

Yeah I gave up on MAP02. I figured out the opening corridor after a few tries (ignore the chaingunners, and just immediately start pushing forward through the imps) but couldn't quite make it to the BFG. There already seems to be a fair amount of needing to know the right path (for example, right after the first megasphere, left takes you to revenants, right takes you to hell knights - you can't really go left because the revs move quicker and will block off the room, so you need to go right, and quick, before the HKs block off their area too). Might try a few more levels based on other's suggestions but won't be returning to this one.

Magnus; check out my demo or rdwpa's video for some strats. i set off some infighting and then run back up to the imp/chaingunner corridor to attack the spiderdemon, you can get it to infight with the barons and then lure the revs and HKs towards it.

2) opening really isn't that bad, neither is clearing out the subsequent areas imo. AB can often be exceedingly generous when it comes to health and ammo, so despite his maps evoking a sense of OH-GOD-WHAT, really it's probably some of the most forgiving "hardcore" slaughter that's out there.

sometimes it's not enough to save me from playing horrendously anyway, but what can ya do.

that save name, hah!

i do think the design/mapping here strongly suggests playing with saves. not just the difficulty but some of the set-ups are desperately unfair on a first play!

MAP02:

Time: 1:19:54

Death Count: 2

Secrets legally found: 4/4

Let me start by clarifying that before I decided to play this wad, I watched a couple of videos from map 01 and 02, so I had a little foreknowledge of what I was going to see. My only two deaths, that I can't even believe how lucky I was, where right in the beginning with the chaingunners and imps (stupid chaingunners...) and with the teleporting cyberdemons previous the puzzle area, two of the things I actually didn't pay attention when watching the videos lol. Pretty sure pistol starting would have been a complete different story...

Anyway, started BFGing and rocketing the imps, then SSGing the spider, and ONE BY ONE annoyingly rocketing the chaingunners, only to find out there was a switch to activate crushers to, ok enough... then killing everything else in the huge room. Each later cyberdemon took me some time since, I was, nervous lol. Then found the BK (behind you know whom), it was there:

And it's meant to use it here:

I don't have any idea of the purpose of the RK, perhaps one of the switches... Anyway, moving on to something I found quite funny and scary at the same time:

Shot him, and the reward was two big guys, oh fuCK! just a single rocket right in my face while trying to escape to kill me instantly. My second try came better, still got a rocket in my face due to crashing into the zombieman while circlestrafing, but yeah. 

My favourite part was this one:

Watching everyone owning the two cybers was a pleasant show. I kept the invulnerability sphere to the end, since I knew what was there. About the puzzle, to do it right in one time I wrote down in a paper the symbols and then the directions to the teleporters so at least I would have enough time while invulnerable to kill one of the cybers, a great idea thanks to the video. It was still hard to see the symbols because of the weapon sprite, but not impossible.

So overall, the map was fun, the only tedious part was the beginning. Nice tune, nice secrets, neat touch with the puzzle. The next map is going to be totally new for me so I expect to die more frequently.

3 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

So overall, the map was fun, the only tedious part was the beginning. Nice tune, nice secrets, neat touch with the puzzle. The next map is going to be totally new for me so I expect to die more frequently.

I get the impression that you are actually enjoying yourself quite a bit.

I'm glad Archi linked me this, fun to see you guys play it. Since Archi didn't want to say who made which maps I'll leave my responses to stuff out heheh. I think once you get through it though you'll figure out our styles. I think Ribbiks already gave away map2 though lol.

17 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I get the impression that you are actually enjoying yourself quite a bit.

Maybe, the visuals and foreknowledge and continuous mode help a lot, let's see in map 03 where foreknowledge doesn't exist

16 minutes ago, ArmouredBlood said:

I think Ribbiks already gave away map2 though lol.

I remember playing through some of your maps before Archi's were added to the set, so I got a leg up there, for sure. Regardless though I think the styles are very distinct such that I'd get a perfect score even if I was going in completely blind :)

17 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Maybe, the visuals and foreknowledge and continuous mode help a lot, let's see in map 03 where foreknowledge doesn't exist

Before I start playing m02 of this set, because I'm really late with it, a couple things about maps like these.

Most of these maps require knowledge ahead of time. They are not meant to be played without at least a basic plan in mind. My advice would be to IDDQD/IDKFA them once to make sure you know what's where, and then loading your saved game and start playing them. Not only will it save you a lot of time by sparing you unnecessarily frustrating trial and error, it will also make you a better player when you play any new maps, because it changes your approach a lot over time.

All of these maps are actually meant to be played from pistol start. They are designed in particular ways, and progression in these maps is at times tied to the availability of firepower. When a map gets a bit more complex, and offers more choices in regards to paths, you might think you are supposed to take a path because you can on continuous play, when in practice the route you choose is not the intended route at all. Not saying this "off-routing" is true for every map in the set, but it is something you may want to consider.

Map02

The intro with the Imps and Chaingunners can be tricky to get down but once you have ammo and space to retreat, the rest of the map is mild in comparison. The post-BFG parts of the map are rather chill, especially when you can get high value infighting in the teleporter room and have most monsters die as you stand back. The Mancs and Trons block the Cacoswarm so baiting the two Cybers to hit everything is quite simple. I just saved through the teleport maze and wasn't too bothered by it. Didn't help when some Caco corpses obscured the wall with the hints on it! The ending again is pretty tame as you watch the two Cybers kill off a bunch of Barons and finish them off with the BFG, followed by some Revs and Viles in the exit room.

NG2 map02:

Makes for a nice rocket spam, not much else to say here... Opening is easy enough. At times it's actually good enough to just walk along the line of potions while making sure not to get caught in the radius of a rocket. Simple enough, so that even armchair speedrunners should be able to do it somewhat properly. Cells are a bit too tight for constant BFG-frenzy, so proper BFG usage should be planned ahead of time. The puzzle is somewhat irritating for the fact that it's really difficult/luck based to carry the invul to the exit-room if there's cybies and infinitely tall roaming cacos blocking access to the pads, which makes the invul behind the BK door a bit less interesting. I would have liked to carry the invul to the exit to get all things to infight there, to then return to the outside for general carnage and clean-up, but I am not willing to grind attempts for this purpose at the moment. Also I'm not even sure it's worthwhile.

It's nice in theory to have telefrag options for the pillar-cybies, unfortunately each telefrag requires players to do the puzzle over again, so telefrag is not interesting, unless people somehow managed to run out of ammo completely, at which point it's somewhat useful.

12 hours ago, Ancalagon said:

Map02 start is one of the hardest parts of the wad.

This is an important note:  I tried playing the beta but got walled by map02.  I remember getting past the imp hallway, but tried to fight the hordes in vain without ever bothering to hit the switch and enter into the BFG area.  I gave up and moved on.  I guess I assumed the mapset was going to be too hard from here on out if this was only map02 - I mean, I assumed the rest of the maps would only get harder.  It turns out I was able to beat map02 after watching rdwpa's video.  map03 is actually way easier than map02.  I guess I will continue from here.

Map03

Nice starting room. This map is more on the fun side compared to the previous where you are mostly free to run circles after the opening encounter or retreat back to promote infighting or just gain a better tactical position. Viles are used sparingly and are generally easy to take out with the BFG before they cause problems. The fenced-off area at the end caught me by surprise with the whole "Do I stand and fight or flip switches and push forward?" kind of deal. Luckily I managed to make my way to the Megasphere and then have the Cyber clear out the Cacoswarm. Also interesting that exits tend to unlock quite early in this wad, letting you bail out more easily than in more choreographed and setpiece-focused slaughtermaps.

LOL @ all the "map02 start is easy peasy actually"

Well, that convinced me to have another go, and I managed to do it after working out the exact sequence of what you have to do plus being lucky to not get minced by crossfire. After that its a case of painting by numbers as you methodically clear out each new bit of map, with the occasional dancing with cyberdemons, but nothing that really compares to that start in terms of do-it-right-&-be-lucky bullshit. That is until the teleport maze, I couldn't be arsed to do that so I've no idea what comes after. I'll give the wad another chance though, despite my misgivings about this map.

Ok, map03 is more fun. There is a lot of freedom to run around at the start, and most of the fights give you the option to run away and pick your own ground to deal with them, which I like. There is the problem perhaps that this inevitably means funneling monsters through doorways, and there are also a lot of guys perched on shelves which are a chore to clear out. The highlight was the finale when archviles and cyber appeared, also there are some pretty cool visual flourishes.

map03 fda

i enjoyed this the most out of 1-3. the start is really cool; i always love seeing a scenario and having time to plan out what im going to do.

once the walls open up its a run around the building type of deal. i cant believe how i died here; got hit by a stray cyber rocket to 19hp, then slow-motion style ran into a HK fireball that i saw coming a mile away >.<

the next difficult bit was the 2 cybers around the RK; shouldnt be so hard in practice but i kept sliding around on the steps and running face first into rockets.

the ending is a bit easier than 1 & 2: the first AVs are looking away and can be rocketed, and then the ones that spawn in when you flip the exit switch get stuck behind the rest of the hordes and the cyber hits them a bit. i retreated back to the RK area for some cheesing and finally got the cyber down after some tense dodging.