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Mattfrie1

PSX Doom/Final Doom TC (Legacy TC, See first post for details)

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27 minutes ago, ScottGray said:

It also has PSXTCMUS because with out it, despite it being in the PSXDOOM gameinfo file, the music would not load.

Yes, it doesn't process the GAMEINFO lump from wads that are loaded because of GAMEINFO in the first place.

 

Which makes sense when you think about it: it has already gone through the stage of parsing GAMEINFO lumps after all.

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Yeah, that makes sense. Gez I was going to ask you about GZDoom 2.4.0, one of the new features was a fully scripted menu system, would that allow us to create a menu similar to the playstation's start menu?

 

Also for everyone I found a ridiculous error in the original soundtrack tool, the LANGUAGE.ENU that's placed in PSXTCMUS to add the bonus track in game, redefined HUSTER instead of MAPMUS. So it altered the level name in stead of the track to play. ( The dangers of copying and pasting in c++ with brain damage ). 

So here is the fixed soundtrack tool OSTT.zip. Just unzip it in the mods folder.  To fix it, ether run the tool again or extract the LANGUAGE.ENU, open it up in notepad, change all the "HUSTR_" to "MAPMUS_". Save it and stick it back in PSXTCMUS.pk3

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My questions on this will probably be a broken record but what was the intent behind all the different tools and loaders?

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I was hoping that would be obvious.  There's only the launcher, the sound track tool (hopefully self explanatory) and the options for the mods. The intent was to make it easyer for people and to group mods that people ask for together. Also some of the mods have to be loaded in a certain order for overwrite reasons and to get round conflicts between some of them, using them manually would be awkward.  I get the feeling you do not approve?

 

 

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12 hours ago, ScottGray said:

Yeah, that makes sense. Gez I was going to ask you about GZDoom 2.4.0, one of the new features was a fully scripted menu system, would that allow us to create a menu similar to the playstation's start menu?

Probably. I'll admit I haven't really followed ZScript development so I can't help you with concrete examples.

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@ScottGray, apart from the resolution change, what's the procedure to PSXify textures and sprites? For example, the way the interpic for NRFTL was modified. I know there's some added contrast, but it also seems that some colors are desaturated.

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@Sylandro,  I was just footering about with the NRFTL interpic, I wasn't following any procedure, The only PSXify instructions I know about are on the fist post of the original Lost Levels thread, that's mainly taking about level design. All the sprites and textures (apart from the weapons) were taking from the PSXDOOM.WAD on the doom and final doom game discs, Slade3 can open them if you want too poke around in there.  There are slight differences in the textures and sprites but most of them are barley notifiable. The Lost Souls are probably the biggest difference, PC,44x47 SKULA1pc.png.46e98eb7f86ddb064ee2692fd6f20191.png PSX,46x53SKULA1psx.png.c2bce88afef49d3be950388690428218.png.

Here's a tech base door, PCDOOR2_4.png.46bdbb337c04786c114119992c683464.png PSXDOOR03.png.97febc7c5ddb7b48405b19d88b3d87d7.png both 128x128 but the PSX has slightly more contrast.

Here's our old cannon fodder friend, PC,41x55 POSSA1pc.png.2947902f51fc591767956d483b8451e3.png PSX,42x56POSSA1psx.png.8ea98be3450e9d88e3c297a4e32264f3.png PSX shaves the top row of pixels of his dome, and adds a row at the bottom on his foot, has a vertical offset of 56 vs the PC's 50. There are other slight differences but nothing that should keep you up at night, certainly nothing worth writing a procedure about.

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Few things I wanted to post since I saw the thread here again before I forget since I decided to finally play through the TC:

 

1) There is a HOM or missing texture in Map 22 Limbo where the room with all red brick textures where the big lowering lift wall is on the front side of step behind the lift. Not a big deal but it's the only one I've found so far.

 

2) If you are close to a Nightmare Imp, but back away, his attack becomes a normal Imp fireball instead of the expected purple Nightmare Imp fireball. Not sure how to fix this one since I looked at the actor and I don't know why this would happen. Tried adding MissileType but didn't help.

Unless... he's supposed to do this. I don't know if this is intended normal PSX Doom behavior or not.

 

3) And last, I'm a big sucker for dynamic lights and this TC felt like it was really lacking them so I made a patch WAD to restore all the lights to everything and added some to the Nightmare Imp projectiles out of existing lights. I know the idea of the TC was to emulate the playstation version as close as possible, but me I gotta have mah lights.

Download: psxlights.zip

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7 hours ago, Nevander said:

*snip*

2) If you are close to a Nightmare Imp, but back away, his attack becomes a normal Imp fireball instead of the expected purple Nightmare Imp fireball. Not sure how to fix this one since I looked at the actor and I don't know why this would happen. Tried adding MissileType but didn't help.

Unless... he's supposed to do this. I don't know if this is intended normal PSX Doom behavior or not.

Wait...Nightmare Imps started to appear on consoles with Doom 64. They were absent in the PSX release of Doom...or am I missing/forgetting something here? I played thru the TC a long time ago so I apologize if they were actually included in the TC *puzzled*. Are they in there somewhere?

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Nightmare imps appeared in some early PSX Doom screenshots, but were entirely removed from the final game for some undisclosed reason. Given how nightmare monsters work in PSX Doom (it's actually just a couple of flags you can set on things, just like the ambush and multiplayer flags and so on, so any monster can technically be a nightmare monster) it's very likely the nightmare imp would have had a normal imp projectile attack, since, well, it was a normal imp. In Doom 64 they made the nightmare imp a truly different creature with a different attack function.

 

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@Nevander, I couldn't find the missing texture is this the area in question?

limbo.jpg.f79fb9d5aa15d46a9057ee57eb1b646f.jpg

 

 

I also noised that about the nightmare imp, probably because it's based on PSXDoomImp, it's really just a test a better version should be made if someones up for it. I would like to put the dynamic lights in the options, it would make a cool addition, but i cant seem to get it to work is there anything else I need to turn on to use it?

 

@NRG01, Nightmare imps are not in any of the levels but one was knocked up to see how they would look in PSXifyD64 when the time comes. Here's the file http://www.mediafire.com/file/ihc4c4asw04420w/PSXNMIMP.PK3, uses the console to go to map TEST01.

Its not the finished version, I was hopping a few people might post there nightmare imp ideas, maybe even nightmare cacodemons and psx arch-vile now we have the sound fx. It would be nice to give archi an appearance some where.

 

@Gez, I think I would prefer the Nightmare imp to use normal imp fire balls, I fits better for some reason. We could make them a bit tougher, maybe slightly faster, what do you recon?

Edited by ScottGray

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3 minutes ago, ScottGray said:

@NRG01, Nightmare imps are not in any of the levels but one was knocked up to see how they would look in PSXifyD64 when the time comes. Here's the file http://www.mediafire.com/file/ihc4c4asw04420w/PSXNMIMP.PK3, uses the console to go to map TEST01.

Its not the finished version, I was hopping a few people might post there nightmare imp ideas, maybe even nightmare cacodemons and psx arch-vile now we have the sound fx. It would be nice to give archi an appearance some where.

@Gez - Yeah, I googled that information, that's why I was wondering.

@ScottGray - I see. I already sent Nevander a question as to how to make the Dynamic Lights work using his file. In my case it only works on the megasphere and nothing else. I thought it was my old-but-trusty GZDoom 1.9.1 but I tried the new 3.0.0 and no dice yet.

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53 minutes ago, ScottGray said:

@Gez, I think I would prefer the Nightmare imp to use normal imp fire balls, I fits better for some reason. We could make them a bit tougher, maybe slightly faster, what do you recon?

Well the authentic thing would be subtractive renderstyle and twice as many hit points, no other changes.

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I pointed out the sprite thing years ago, and people incorrectly told me "no there's no differences". Why didn't anybody bother to listen? Also, I'm credited in the OP, yet those assets are not in the mod at all.

 

And what about setting the levels to use 8:7 ratio pixels with sprites that are 6:7? Sprite yscale should be 1.0 and xscale should be 0.75, MAPINFO pixelratio should be 0.875.

 

Also, the gib health is still wrong in the version on the first page, the actor timing is somewhat off, it still uses pc style weapon/projectile damage, map gravity should be 1371 instead of 686 (unless Jag/PSX used a different gravity formula than linearly increasing like in PC), etc.

 

One idea I had was now that GZDoom has tonemaps, afaik the "linear" tonemap makes everything twice as bright, meaning that PSX light could probably be emulated quite closely with carefully tweaked sector light and color values in the "software" lighting style.

Edited by Blastfrog

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3 hours ago, ScottGray said:

@Nevander, I couldn't find the missing texture is this the area in question?

limbo.jpg.f79fb9d5aa15d46a9057ee57eb1b646f.jpg

 

I also noised that about the nightmare imp, probably because it's based on PSXDoomImp, it's really just a test a better version should be made if someones up for it. I would like to put the dynamic lights in the options, it would make a cool addition, but i cant seem to get it to work is there anything else I need to turn on to use it?

That is the right area but it's not that wall. For me there is/was a floor raised up right before that. It would/should be almost right below you, here's what it looks like in-game for me in that are with the HOM in view:

 

Screenshot_Doom_20170430_230922.png.bd6a379a6f1bf488c6db2ead93537863.png

 

 

3 hours ago, Nrg01 said:

@ScottGray - I see. I already sent Nevander a question as to how to make the Dynamic Lights work using his file. In my case it only works on the megasphere and nothing else. I thought it was my old-but-trusty GZDoom 1.9.1 but I tried the new 3.0.0 and no dice yet.

I sent Nrg01 a message already about this but it sounds like the default lights.pk3 is not being loaded first. The psxlights.wad file attaches all the default light definitions back to the new PSX objects, and all of those are inside lights.pk3. I didn't think I needed to duplicate all the original light defintions, only needed to reattach them to the new actor class names. Adding lights.pk3 into your global autoload section of the INI should do the trick. Then you can toggle them like normal in the dynamic light options.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Nevander said:

I sent Nrg01 a message already about this but it sounds like the default lights.pk3 is not being loaded first. The psxlights.wad file attaches all the default light definitions back to the new PSX objects, and all of those are inside lights.pk3. I didn't think I needed to duplicate all the original light defintions, only needed to reattach them to the new actor class names. Adding lights.pk3 into your global autoload section of the INI should do the trick. Then you can toggle them like normal in the dynamic light options.

Ah, that did the trick! I just swapped psxlights.wad and lights.pk3 order in the bat file. It does enrich the experience. Working just fine using GZDoom 1.9.1. Huge thanks!

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19 hours ago, Gez said:

Well the authentic thing would be subtractive renderstyle and twice as many hit points, no other changes.

Then, it shall be. nightmareimp.zip

 

@Blastfrog

Post your assets here again, am sure there are in there.  The differences in 99% of the sprites are minuet, that’s why initially only the lost souls were included. You pointed out converting the sprites to PNG was not accurate, so the sprite lumps form the psx discs were taken directly, not converted to png, along with the playpal which were converted from psx game disc using slade3.  The textures are in png format and again were converted straight from the game disc using the appropriate pallet, they look right to me but if it’s still not, then maybe you could give us a hand.

 

On 2016-1-19 at 2:44 PM, MG_Man said:

I have determined that the PixelRatio value to use is 0.8. (original PSX Doom resolution is 256x240, scaling this to 320x240 [a 4:3 resolution] results in a 20% reduction in height, hence the resulting PixelRatio of 0.8.)

Additionally, it seems the sprites have their own aspect ratio separate from the map's aspect ratio. I have determined that setting XScale to 0.8 on all the actors makes the sprites match up too. The regular Scale property on them will have to be changed back to 1 from the TC's current value of 0.92. Since DECORATE scaling doesn't work for the HUD weapons, they'll have to be shortened through TEXTURES. That seems like a right pain in the ass....

....it was)

 

This is what is currently in place. Left is MGmans, center is psx screen grap and right its your settings. There are similar.

MGmansAR.jpg.0d1c7b7ba0ff48cb7c4da74f65021f58.jpgPSXshot.jpg.9305ff87596d14b2afa088442bcc3b97.jpgsodasAR.jpg.64d6f36349e740bd1530d4a013992c3d.jpg

 

according to DefaultMap gravity 686 was your value. If your sure the value should be 1371 to be accurate to the psx version I will change it.

about the weapons and gib health am sure unknownna and Gez got stuck into all that stuff back in 2012. List the stuff that you recon is wrong and the values it should be replaced with and we can sort it out once and for all.

 

Using tonemaps solve our lighting problems sounds goods but I don't know anything about them maybe you could give us some examples?

 

@Nevander, thank’s man that’s is running, Im lovein the lights. Also fixed that texture good eyes man. map22.zip

Edited by ScottGray

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Speaking of lighting problems, in the option there’s “Software display mode with brighter maps”, it includes PSXBMAP.PK3 and switches GL_LIGHTMODE "8" in the PSXDOOM.CFG.  It’s an attempted to make the TC look closer to the PSX by bring the brightness of the levels up and setting sector light mode to software in open-GL options.  The UDMF TEXTMAP lumps were processed by an application that raised the light levels if between 1 and 199.  The lower levels were brightened more. A value of 1 would be lifted by 90, 100 by 45, 190 only by 4.

 

newBrightness = currentBrightness + ((Max range – currentBrightness)/2.2)

 

Max range being 199, the reason, I could see no difference in brightness in game above 200. The 2.2 just came from trying different values and it seemed to work the best. I uses the start of “Entryway” for calibration. The formula is primitive and anyone with a better one that might represent the PSX closer please let me know.

 

This is not an ideal fix.  I would prefer not to change the map brightness’s at all, but that would probably require our own lighting mode in GZDoom. Or hopefully with the tonemaps method Blastfrog mentioned above. The results below are a mixed bag, but I think overall it looks closer to the PSX.

Left: standard Light mode, Middle: PSX screen shot, Right: software mode with PSXBMAP.PK3

                                                            Untitled-2.jpg.c1c510074a04254f13ee567f6c3fc0c2.jpg

Out of curiosity I tried PSXBMAP.PK3 with GZdoom version 3.0.0, set rendering output to Doom software and switch on truecolor mode and polyrender.

The results are very simpler to OpenGL in software mode.

Left: software mode, truecolor and polyrender with PSXBMAP.PK3, Right: PSX screen shot.

                                                                       Untitled-3.jpg.5dfa89458fa43bcf0f923c85719f28eb.jpg

 

GZdoom version 3.0.0 messes up the status bars. Probably to do with them being scriptable now.  I would be nice to hear what everyone thinks about the lighting issue and if the above mod is worth improving on.

Edited by ScottGray

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MG_Man failed to take into account the actual pixel aspect ratio of the PSX. In the video mode Doom used, it used 8:7 ratio pixels. In NTSC with typical overscan, only about 220 of those lines were actually visible, with the top and bottom 10 lines effectively being waste (hence the black bar underneath the status bar in PSX Doom).

 

Now, in PAL regions, they could probably see about 264 lines total, with black borders on top and bottom, same picture width with 48:35 ratio pixels. That being said, I don't think supporting the PAL visuals is a good idea. My suggestion would be to use 224 visible lines (instead of 220 because it's easier to deal with 224) and have just slightly wider than 8:7 ratio pixels on the 2D elements (may as well have exactly 8:7 ratio on the 3D world though).

 

One thing we couldn't emulate without a new feature would be a y-shear offset in SBARINFO, like that of the Doom alpha's rendering behavior. PSX Doom rendered a 200 line area, but seeing as the top 8-12 lines were cut off by NTSC TVs, that effectively means the view is y-sheared downward a slight bit.

 

@Quasar at one point had compiled a document with PSX actor timings and such. Unfortunately, I didn't do too much with it and lost it. You wouldn't happen to still have it, would you Quasar?

 

As for gravity, I'd also like Quasar to weigh in on whether 1371 is accurate. How I came to that was I took the fact that gravity was 4x as strong as PC Doom, and the ticrate was 15 as opposed to 35. 4*15/35*800=1371 (rounded down)

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@Blastfrog, That's amazing information. The problem seems to be aspect ratio.  bellow, pixel ratio 0.875, sprite y scale 1, x scale 0.75. With out forcing 5:4 aspect ratio the entrance looks too tall and the enemys look skinny. the first image shows this, the 3rd image same setting but with aspect 5:4 forced. Enemys look very close to the psx (middle image), entrance still looks a bit tall.

 w0875y1x075.jpg.07207ae0a018a474dadf4906859af871.jpgPSXshot.jpg.9305ff87596d14b2afa088442bcc3b97.jpgw0875y1x075ar54.jpg.b9bdf35762ed97c4ee2f8a3095a4275d.jpg

Where it hits the fan is when someone hits wide screen. Goes back to the problems with the first image.

w0875y1x075169.jpg.df94bd3d583cacf32321593fb6c9948f.jpg

 

Below we have pixel ratio 0.75 with sprite y scale 1 and x scale 0.7.  Looks closer to the psx screen grab in the middle and looks consistent when you hit wide screen. It may not be technically faithful to the psx but we need it to look the same or as close as we can get.

w075y1x07.jpg.bf7071ffb1690c9d4558d1c70b1cb2be.jpgPSXshot.jpg.9305ff87596d14b2afa088442bcc3b97.jpgw075y1x07169.jpg.e7eacdfa6c8c32dda010b0c4eb281161.jpg

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The source of the discrepancy you're seeing is that a raster-based digital screen grab of PSX Doom does not accurately reflect the aspect ratio it displays with on a CRT television set. In order to do an accurate comparison, you would need to be analyzing analog video frame caps.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that raw capture will probably be 720x480 (on NTSC) and will still need some correction. NTSC used exactly 10:11 ratio pixels, and the left and rightmost 8 columns are waste. In other words, crop that 720x480 down to 704x480, and scale that to 640x480.

 

In any case, none of that is necessary. The pixel aspect ratios of many consoles are already well documented.

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@Blastfrog, and @Quasar, Guys am not Ignoring you Iv just not got the time I once had, I was going to dig out the old CRT and PlayStation (Pray they ain't fossilize) and look into it further but I came across this project, 

I recon this will render the TC obsolete.

 

After we sort out the aspect ratio problem the only major problem left with the TC will be the lighting. Which won't be solved accurately without modifying GZdoom (I would not know where to begin).  The only other thing I have is a ACS PlayStation menu.  I'll put what I have into a new update with Blastfrog's aspect ratios.

 

Depending on which title you select the menu will chance accordingly.

Untitled-1.png.c6912dccf0a3216c9347ad33c194bd61.png

Edited by ScottGray

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I actually don't know why you think your peojects are going to be obsolete, the only thing I want is that my projects look the best posible, @ScottGray I hope you can manage with the aspect ratio because I was hoping @Blastfrog to create the patch for this project "PSX Doom/Final Doom TC" which he hasn't referred to my post in my thread upon uploading this image which I was waiting for his reponse:

 

t3se2tyfj75hxn2zg.jpg

 

Nobody is obliged to reply, of course.

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4 hours ago, ScottGray said:

 

I recon this will render the TC obsolete.

Considering that runs on a modified engine that doesn't seem mergable with modern GZDoom, I highly doubt this TC will be made obsolete.

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@Erick194 the aspect ratio stuffs is a bit confusing, this image is the settings Blastfrog mentions above.

everything apart from monsters XScale 0.875, monsters XScale 0.75, I find them a bit on the narrow side and I don't know why there are not 0.875 like the items.

and world AR set to 0.875.  He said use 224 visible lines instead of 220, but iv set up for 220 lines in SBARINFO just to see what it would looks like.

Screenshot_Doom_20170530_034257.png.99359c6e22eed199332ed89fc2a33791.png592cdd33d8acc_Screenshot_Doom_20170522_204355(1).png.e4162a6d06707021ad750272fe9dd7bb.pngScreenshot_Doom_20170530_034314.png.542ac45bb5e2d0c1309dd7e3309828a5.png

The middle image is the one you posted above.  If I leave the health bonus at xscale 0.8 instead of 0.875 the flasks look more spherical like the middle image. I don't know which one is more accurate, I think we are strolling around splitting hairs here but I get where Blastfrog's coming from, it would be nice to get it accurate. I see the guys had a friendly chat with him about all this on your thread.

 

Edited by ScottGray

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On 02/05/2017 at 1:27 AM, ScottGray said:

Out of curiosity I tried PSXBMAP.PK3 with GZdoom version 3.0.0, set rendering output to Doom software and switch on truecolor mode and polyrender.

The results are very simpler to OpenGL in software mode.

Left: software mode, truecolor and polyrender with PSXBMAP.PK3, Right: PSX screen shot.

 

Where is this truecolor and polyrender option you speak of. I'm using 3.1.0 of GZDoom

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On the startup window where it asks for which IWAD you want to play, select software mode.

 

Then go to Options -> Change rendering output, and you'll see the options to turn on poly renderer and truecolor.

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1 hour ago, Gez said:

On the startup window where it asks for which IWAD you want to play, select software mode.

 

Then go to Options -> Change rendering output, and you'll see the options to turn on poly renderer and truecolor.

Thanks. Turns out Smooth Doom replaces that option with "Smooth Doom Options." That's why I couldn't find it.

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but does exist anyway to run psx doom and the lost levels plus the no rest for the living expansion with the smooth doom mod added in the proper order ?

I mean as a proper order, the lost levels taking  their pc positions inside  doom ,doom 2 and final doom ... I think it would be great... and if the hd texture pack could be added too it will make the best doom around...

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