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Insomniak

Snipe snipe snipe...

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Maryland sniper, blah blah blah...

What do you think? Insane gun nut, or a man with a vendetta? A team of psychos with assault rifles, or just one guy?

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Just the usual stuff that happens without gun control.

/me waits for the flames.

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Now tell us about your country, the shining bastion of freedom, etc. Totally fucking tired of hearing about it. I'm getting bored of seeing every other thread in R&R being anti-US nowadays. Do you all really have this much free time?

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Waldon said:
Now tell us about your country, the shining bastion of freedom, etc. Totally fucking tired of hearing about it. I'm getting bored of seeing every other thread in R&R being anti-US nowadays. Do you all really have this much free time?


Damn! Kids, I think he’s on to us. yep, that's right, every other country in the world is secretly jealous of the US. After all, they’re all run by fascist dictators, who strip us of our personal freedoms like banning automatic weapons! I mean, Christ! What are we going to do when the king of England storms our house? (Happens so often nowadays).

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Uh, get a grip of reality, would you? The single fact that banning guns put the UK and Australia to the top of the violent crime statistics (ahead of the US, too) of the Western countries makes your post rather uneducated/naive/ridiculous too. Also, quote me where I said a word about automatic guns or jealousy.

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Waldon: I'm not saying anything about the US in general. Just simply stating that more guns causes more shootings.

say that the number of guns per capita is X in country A and X/10 in country B. Say that Y% of the population wants shoot people for fun or other obscure reasons. This Y is probably more or less constant everywhere.

Now assume that the chance to get hold of a gun quickly when you feel like shooting stuff is proportional to the number of guns (assuming that the country with 10 times as many guns have a less strict gun policy, which is probably true), kX and kX/10 respective. Now say that about 50% of all crazy shooters have another reason to own a gun, hunting, army service, sports etc. (interest in weapons probably raises the chance to be a shooter).

thus the relative amount of ppl with a gun who wants to shoot people is:
in country A=X*(Y/200)+(Y/200)
in country B=(X/10)*(Y/200)+(Y/200)

Thus there will be (9*X/10)*(Y/200) more shootings in country A.
for example if X = 0.5 and Y is 0.0001% per year, there will be 11 more shootings per year in a 50 million people country than if it had 10% as many guns in circulation.

Now writing this post probably proved your point that I have too much time on my hands, but meh :P

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Waldon said:
Uh, get a grip of reality, would you? single fact that banning guns put the UK and Australia to the top of the violent crime statistics(ahead of the US, too) of the Western countries makes your post rather uneducated/naive/ridiculous too.


/me rubs eyes.
/me cearfuly reads post agian
BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! (.ect)

I would advise you to stop getting you crime statistics from NRA promotional videos my dear friend.

might I also add that all gun are not Illegal in australia, just automatics. and handguns.

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Uh...what? well, at least I understand your point and I agree with it. Though it can be so that people who has no gun will use knife or some other hand weapon. At least that is less dangerous.

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Erik said:

Just simply stating that more guns causes more shootings.

While in theory I would tend to agree with your math, I think you realize that not all guns are used to kill people, also legally kept guns are less likely to be used in a crime than illegally kept ones. It's not as easy as more guns - more crime :)
As for you, Crp, I will take you seriously the very day when your post consists of more than a laugh (I'm glad I amuse you), an insult, and a failed attempt at belittling someone.

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Anyway, enough of this gun control debate. remember what happened last time...

Insomniac said:
Insane gun nut, or a man with a vendetta?

both.

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Waldon said:
As for you, Crp, I will take you seriously the very day when your post consists of more than a laugh (I'm glad I amuse you), an insult, and a failed attempt at belittling someone.


Very well, Where did you get: the single fact that banning guns put the UK and Australia to the top of the violent crime statistics(ahead of the US, too) from? because, I assure you, We'r not.

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The single fact that banning guns put the UK and Australia to the top of the violent crime statistics (ahead of the US, too) of the Western countries makes your post rather uneducated/naive/ridiculous too.


Waldon, where the fuck do you get your information? Let's pull some statistics from WHO here, number of murders committed per 100,000 citizens in different countries in the year 2000:

Australia: 1.6
Canada: 1.4
China: 1.8
France: 0.7
Germany: 0.9
Great Britain: 0.8
Sweden: 1.2
USA: 6.9

I don't know about the USA, but here in Sweden only in 20% of all murders, a gun is used.

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Ct_red_pants said:

/me rubs eyes.
/me cearfuly reads post agian
BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! (.ect)

I would advise you to stop getting you crime statistics from NRA promotional videos my dear friend.

might I also add that all gun are not Illegal in australia, just automatics. and handguns.


You obviously missed the government's press release some time ago that crime involving firearms in Sydney had increased by over 40% since the laws were introduced.

Tell me...will a criminal be disheartened by the fact that a particular weapon is illegal? HELL NO!

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General, common law all over the world = Don't kill people.
Gun control = Don't have the ability to kill people, end up being prosecuted for having the means AND killing someone if you ever do.

For those of us who aren't raging homicidal maniacs, gun control just isn't "fair." ("Heh" to "fair.")

Perhaps psychological profiling in addition to the background checks would be more agreeable than banning altogether? Anything that contradicts any ammendment within the original Bill of Rights just turns my stomach.

And might I add: Fuck you, Dubbya.

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I just realized that last line might be taken the wrong way. "Dubbya" = 'w' = George W. Bush, not W as in "Waldon." Sorry.

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Livo said:

You obviously missed the government's press release some time ago that crime involving firearms in Sydney had increased by over 40% since the laws were introduced.

Tell me...will a criminal be disheartened by the fact that a particular weapon is illegal? HELL NO!


you are talking about the laws after the port auther masscure of 1996? That %40 was mostly possession of an illegal firearm; from people who didn’t want to hand there guns back. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

And even if that was true, we still don’t come close to the USA.

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I heard somewhere that they think that the sniper is really a team of 2 people of more. One drives while the other one shoots and they book it outta there.

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uh yeah.. I forgot that illegal guns would probably have a larger chance of being used in a shooting. Say by a factor Z. This would still imply that there are more shootings in the country with less strict gun policy as long as Z doesn't exceed the gun frequency factor (10 in my prior example). One might also argue that there are other means to hurt people than shooting them. That is true, but shooting is more effective and causes generally more damage than hitting someone with a stick or whatever.

Then there's also the argument that "since everyone else has a gun I gotta have one too to protect me". That only implies that once too many guns are in circulation, it's too late to do much about it. If you make them illegal, shootings will increase by the factor Z above (as it did in those examples you used, Sydney etc).

So unfortunately it seems to be too late for those countries with too many guns in circulation. (the US obviously being one, but not the only, of them)

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Ct_red_pants said:

you are talking about the laws after the port auther masscure of 1996? That %40 was mostly possession of an illegal firearm; from people who didn’t want to hand there guns back. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.


ahhaha, ok... Disregard the part of my last post regarding making guns illgal causing trouble. And stop lying with statistics dammit.

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Erik said:
uh yeah.. I forgot that illegal guns would probably have a larger chance of being used in a shooting. Say by a factor Z. This would still imply that there are more shootings in the country with less strict gun policy as long as Z doesn't exceed the gun frequency factor (10 in my prior example). One might also argue that there are other means to hurt people than shooting them. That is true, but shooting is more effective and causes generally more damage than hitting someone with a stick or whatever.

Then there's also the argument that "since everyone else has a gun I gotta have one too to protect me". That only implies that once too many guns are in circulation, it's too late to do much about it. If you make them illegal, shootings will increase by the factor Z above (as it did in those examples you used, Sydney etc).

So unfortunately it seems to be too late for those countries with too many guns in circulation. (the US obviously being one, but not the only, of them)


yeah. your're right. I would be pointless to try and introduce gun control in the us now. I say, don't make them legal in the first place.

Bottom line is, guns are designed to make it easy kill. All you need to to is aim and pull the trigger.
(ok ok, you need to load the thing, and keep the dust outta it, and be able to hold it steady ect, but you get my point.

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The opinion was once communicated to me that the purpose of ownership of firearms in the United States is a (possibly just symbolic) means of preventing the government from having too much power over the citizens.

Unfortunately, the government has placed safeguards against the people actually having power or ever revolting.

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...and yes, guns are all about killing. Can't argue that, except maybe in the case of rifles. Unfortunately, things like greed and lack of ability to reconcile/negotiate make killing necessary. NECESSARY. I'm speaking for the guy on the other end of it here -- the guy who has to defend himself but doesn't have the bodily means.

One can't prevent people from becoming hostile. Those hostilities excalate into arms races. This is clearly seen in schoolyards and prisons... whoever's got the stick, screwdriver, etc has the power. Can't prevent people from becoming well-armed.

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No, guns are just a means.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Actually, given about 3 feet of distance, I know a few quick and easy ways to kill someone in a way that they are much more likely to die from than the average (poorly aimed) gunshot. In fact, anyone is capable...

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Ultraviolet said:
One can't prevent people from becoming hostile. Those hostilities excalate into arms races. This is clearly seen in schoolyards and prisons... whoever's got the stick, screwdriver, etc has the power. Can't prevent people from becoming well-armed.


Yes. There will be times when one needs to defend themselves. But is deadly force the only why? How about tazers? Pepper spray? Or even a gun loaded with blanks? One day I will try to work on non lethal weaponry to stamp out the need for deadly force altogether.

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Aw crap! Not another thread about guns in the US!

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Even if guns are banned people will continue to kill others. Knives, hatchets, fists, cars, bombs, fire. Banning guns isn't the answer but regulations on guns is. Anyway, about this guy, I hope they find him soon.

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