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Cosmic Grain

Descension (GZDoom)

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Descension is a set of six maps, each taking place in hell. None of them are super long, and there are a couple boss fights(if you wanna call them that), including a final battle at the end. Skill levels are fully implemented. Play UV at your own risk. =P

 

There are some GZDoom features used(on some levels more than others), and there will likely be errors in other source ports. There's also some custom monsters. Free look and jumping aren't meant to be used.

 

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tdxftck6hydobg/Descension.zip?dl=0

 

Screenshots:

 

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QsyzHK7.png

 

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Edited by Cosmic Grain

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Okay I updated the link! I made several changes including a couple bug fixes, now this will likely be the final version. Just saying this in case anyone downloaded the previous verson.

 

EDIT: Aaaaand updated the file again because a friend pointed out something rather small but still in need of fixing.

Edited by Cosmic Grain

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Suddenly, I don't even have a whole lot to complain about.

 

Spoiler

 

There's a non-damaging lava pit in uhhhh MAP03, I think? The pit has a secret alcove.

 

A GZDoom mapset that leads to Dead Simple? You can use MAPINFO to specify which level is the last one in the campaign.

 

You can also use MAPINFO to disable jumping, crouching, and freelook. Although some people are likely to complain about the last one.

 

 

Is this a debut? It's very nice, I think. A bit rough with resources, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Don't know what else to say.

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Fixing the lava pit, thanks! I don't mind if a player really wishes to use those features honestly, and I'm not determined to make sure they're completely disabled, it's just not the intended experience. I don't really mind if the mapset just ends by taking the player to a default Doom 2 level, but I can fix it if it is a big deal to others.

 

Anyway thanks. What do you mean by rough with resources though?

Edited by Cosmic Grain

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1 hour ago, Cosmic Grain said:

What do you mean by rough with resources though?

Not a lot of health and armor pickups, mostly.

 

Then again, I was unusually sloppy when playing the wad for some reason.

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Ah yeah, I am aware of that, you played on UV I assume? Part of my idea to make it extra difficult was to limit the player with resources, but maybe if I hear this is a common problem I'll look into adding just a bit more.

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Hmmm, now I feel conflicted about this. My idea was to design quite a challenge in higher skill levels, so I'm not sure if the solution is simply play on a lower skill, or for me change things a bit. Regardless, I'm gonna look into adding a few more armor pickups in some places that will help the player just slightly.

Edited by Cosmic Grain

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I played through it on UV and generally thought it was quite a good set of maps.  The texturing was especially nice, as was the ramp up in difficulty over the six maps.  But I'd have to agree and say that there might be too little ammo in the maps.  Running out was one thing I found frustrating and too common.

 

My other suggestion is to find different sounds for the platforms, doors, and switches.  The ones you have sound pretty thin to me.

 

As far as issues go, the music on map 2 didn't want to play for me in GZDoom 3.1.0.

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Thanks for your feedback!

 

Increasing the ammo is a suggestion I've previously heard from someone else, so I think now it's time to add some more.

 

I personally love those sound effects, but I understand.

 

And the music of level 2 not playing was an issue for one other person as well, huh... I should change that as well then.

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The music issue only occurs with the internal Windows MIDI synth. All the custom ones play correctly. It's not the first MIDI file I encounteded that Windows is having problems with. I'm just wondering if it's something with the music or with ZDoom's music player that causes it.

 

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Interesting. I'm quite curious as to why it only happens with a small amount of midis and I'd like to hear if someone knows why it happens. Still, I plan to change it anyway, finding another fitting song for that map shouldn't be too hard =P

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Update! This is a rather big update as it adds more(hopefully enough now) ammo to every map. In addition, I've added just a few more armor bonuses here and there, which aren't gonna change a whole lot but will help a little bit. I'd like to think there's enough ammo now, but I'll see what others think.

Also I still plan to change map 2's music, since I don't like that the midi fails for some people. I just haven't found something fitting yet, unfortunately.

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I gave all these maps a whirl just now and I fail to see where those maps are actually difficult, if we ignore the fact that you generally tend to keep players low on armour when you can. I played all the maps on UV + pistol start.

 

Your way of creating "difficulty" is very single-minded, for lack of a better term, and in this set it gets repetitive quick, because the recipe is simple:

 

Projectile enemy on one side, hitscan on the other side to deal damage.

Drop down somewhere? Hitscan behind the player

Grab a key or flick a switch? Hitscans to deal damage

A corner that looks treacherous? 100$ says there's a hitscan around in +80% of the cases.

See where I'm coming from?

 

By constantly laying down hitscans and keeping players low on supplies, you promote a crawl through your maps which makes them feel somewhat grindy in a similar sense that Urania is grindy, namely: pluck the hitscans first, then move in and clear the player's supposed real estate, wipe the turrets after, then move on. Alterations to this general strategy aren't required for the most part. That's okay once in a while, but if way over 50% of your gameplay says that this is the most valid and efficient method of play, without offering any other choice that at least seems attractive, aside of rolling the dice and "GFI" (GFI= go for it), then there's something off with your encounter design, in my opinion. From my point of view, and this may come across pretty harsh, so sorry in advance, it doesn't matter how often you "redress" the same idea, because it's still the same idea. On top of that, some of your encounters are too attractive to just corner/door-camp. While door-camping is something people have different opinions about, some say it's "tactical" (sorry, but: LMAO), others say it's lame (it bloody well is), your maps make door camping too easy and too attractive for reasons previously stated.

 

Another point that got repetitive is how most of these maps start:

m01: chaingun and shotgun against low tiers

m02: shotgun and chaingun against low tiers

m03: shotgun against low-mid tiers

m04: shotgun against low-mid tiers. At least the SSG comes into play here quickly, but still...

m05: early run for the SSG. Finally something different, eventhough it's still low-mid tiers for quite a bit of time here.

m06: berserking a Vile isn't too bad, but I'll get into this later.

 

Some of the progression in your maps is opaque to the point that the necessary actions would qualify as a secret in most other sets that I can think of. This might be a matter of taste, sure, but I can see why some people may get annoyed over this on occasion. It's not a major deal, though.

 

In many cases I ended up skipping past projectile based enemies, for lack of proper firepower. You don't make non-threats like mancubi in a long and wide corridor any more interesting by limiting players to a shotgun and a chaingun. Pardon my harsh language, but I can't be bothered to chip midtiers away with tootsie-toys, I leave them where they are and exit the map without 100% kills, just to get it over with. The problem that arises here is that I can't exactly tell how good ammo distribution in your maps is overall, but speaking from a pistol-start perspective while aiming for UVmax-ish results, chances are ammo is a little too tight here and there.

 

I liked tysoning the stone imps and spectres in the first map, that berserk-section was nice, on the other hand that Vile in map 6 is completely superfluous, because it wouldn't even be dangerous with an unberserked fist and no armour at all, that's how much cover there is. Speaking of that vile in map06, you could have started the player on a berserk right away instead of waiting for them to run into that pack later, but that's also a minor concern.

 

Like other mappers who prefer GZDoom mapping over anything else, the maps are pleasant to look at, and it's obvious that you've taken lots of time with detailing. Unfortunately, similar to other GZDoom based sets I have experienced so far, the visuals are vastly superior to the gameplay that is on offer here. As a rule of thumb, I'd argue that the more your setups reward memorization over actual skill and situational awareness, the higher the odds are that the gameplay in reality is a bit on the shallow side of things in these cases.

 

@Graf Zahl why is GZDoom's "quickturn" so slow, by the way? My turn speed with the mouse is about twice as fast. Any chance this will become an instant "flip" at some point if it hasn't already in GZDoom3.1?

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Well I couldn't ask for anything better than a brutally honest review, so thanks. I'll definitely be keeping all of this in mind and hope to learn from it. ^^

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20 minutes ago, Cosmic Grain said:

Well I couldn't ask for anything better than a brutally honest review, so thanks. I'll definitely be keeping all of this in mind and hope to learn from it. ^^

To clarify a few things: I'm not the be-all-end-all in regards to dooming skills, but I'm playing it very regularly and also speedrun maps on occasion, so chances are that other people may find some spots more difficult than I do. Take my stance on "non-threats" with a grain of salt is what I'm saying here.

 

In regards to that vile in map06, I would suggest making the pillars less wide, so taking cover takes a bit more attention on the player's side.

 

If you want for people not to door/corner camp, make sure to flush them out of their cover somehow. You don't need to lock players in all the time, you could create a "soft lock-in" by bringing in a threat from behind the player.

 

Just a few random thoughts I had.

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7 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

While door-camping is something people have different opinions about, some say it's "tactical" (sorry, but: LMAO)

Somebody call me?

 

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot.  In the first map I noticed that some monsters spawned while they were in my view, but there was no teleport fog to go along with them.  This looked uncomfortable and odd.  I haven't looked at how this effect was triggered, but I'm guessing it's through ACS's SpawnSpotFacing() function.  I'd throw in a SpawnSpot(yourMapSpotHere, "TeleportFog") as well whenever there's even a slight chance the player may see a monster spawn.

Edited by YukiRaven

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If I don't incorporate these things now I'll definitely consider it in my next project. 

 

And about that teleport, I could add teleport fog, I'll see. Thanks for input again.

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I figured you might want a demo or two, so I recorded map 01 and map 02, because I think they already suffice to examplify what I mean about your way of doing "difficult". I think in map01 I skipped things a bit at the start. I made those with GZdoom2.4, so here's hoping you can play those back and they don't desync or so...

 

Descension01+02.zip

 

The missing teleport fog also is an occurrence in map 02 by the way. I didn't notice at first, but as I made the demo for it, I didn't window-shop the shotgunners at the shoot-switch and instead ran back into the corridor, where things spawned with no fog at all...

 

I'm pretty sure these maps play a bit more "fluent" for continuous players, but for pistol starts the amount of time spent with the single-barreled shotgun is painfully long.

 

You really don't have to make players progress through all the lowest tiers of firepower before finally giving them something that is impactful. If you design all your map's openings around having just the shotgun, because it's all you give the player, then you consequentially also need to design the opening fights accordingly, and that's where the repetition of imps and shotgunners really starts to become a problem in regards to variety, because you have these re-iterations of previous maps.

 

You can actually get away with forcing players into shotgunning mid-tiers, if there is a gameplay relevant merit to it, like very little room to move around in. If you want to see a good example of this, have a look at ribbiks's frog.wad where he opens one map by way of forcing the player to use the shotgun against revenants in a very small room. That is interesting, because it's actually difficult to dodge and outmaneuver these things in tight spaces. In your maps however, there is usually more than enough space to move around in, and you pull the "little-firepower on semi-tough targets" for too long without there being an actual threat to these, if we ignore the occasional sloppy mistake or so.

 

What you may also notice, in case you watch these demos, is that my approach to threats always has the same kind of rhythm to it. I mentioned this earlier, but really, the key to your maps is looking into corners, and plucking hitscans. If you do these "ambushes" occasionally, you have something you can surprise the player with. If you do it virtually all the time, you have a design choice that defeats its own purpose, by making players look every time. "Outsmarting" the mapper is nice on occasion, but it isn't rewarding when it happens on a regular basis. Also, if you do this all the time, you don't allow players to have the "oh, this time I'm clear to proceed" kind of feel, which is also nice to have.

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Thanks for the further feedback and the demos. I don't know why I kept the player with just the shotgun so much, and put hitscanners in nearly every encounter. I'd honestly like to reform some of this wad's encounters eventually.

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Personally, I think you would already gain a lot by looking at monsters you do not really need for anything other than for the sake of just having them there. If you want an example, you can look at map04's pinkie behind the first door. It is really just there without there being a lot of merit to it, for example. All it does is it soaks up 3 shotgun rounds as per usual and that is about it.

 

Also, from my point of view, a lot of the grindy feel comes from the lack of firepower. That is a bit more complicated for sure, but in general, when you have many occasions for corner/doorcamps, it is not too bad to have ample firepower to get past these situations quickly, because these situations are usually "mildly interesting", since they're a rinse-and-repeat of the same action anyways. That's not to say you should try and encourage players even more to abuse doorcamping, but if you find yourself in a position where you're not really able to change much about the setup, it might be wise to provide a "boost" so these lows don't last as long. Think of these boosts as kind of like a last resort, when you really can't see a convenient way of changing things otherwise.

 

There is a lot you can get away with, if you just make it "stupid fun", like rocketing a pack of imps or so. Just for that feelgood splatter and stuff... ;-)

 

In my opinion, the different tiers of enemies also correspond kind of to the different weapons the game has on offer. Anything mid-tier, which starts at revenants in terms of HP, and ends with HKs/Mancs is something you should provide an SSG for in most conceivable cases. The moment you employ groups of these mid tiers, just one or two rockets to soften the pack up before switching to the SSG for cleanup is already well worth it. It also adds a layer to your maps which is often overlooked in other wads, namely encouraging the player to think about the weapon that is best to use. Many people enjoy this facet of doom, and eventhough I also love me a good BFG fueled slaughter, the real tactical side of choosing the proper tools is something I can personally appreciate a lot. If your intention was to not make these maps a super fast powertrip, which I think is what you were going for, then the aspect of tactical weapon use is a layer that can work really well for these maps, and really elevate them quite a bit, provided these weapons are available to begin with. Some people enjoy chipping away at barons of hell with just the SSG, and it's OK if you enjoy that as well. However, there is no onjective reason not include another option for players who like to have some more firepower for what is actually a boss-monster-ish thing, unless of course that baron is actually dangerous because of limited real estate or so (like your baron in map 04 is for instance).

 

If you really feel like you want to change things about these maps at some point, feel free to hit me up, if you want my opinion on them in spite of me being strong with the sodium on occasion. ;-)

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Well-designed maps with competently placed enemies. The only thing that spoiled my impression of passing, this is the place where I somehow hopelessly stuck, and could not escape without cheats. I probably went through the very first version, without fixes. I think in the new version there are no problems anymore. I also could not leave the room at the beginning of the second map for a long time. I had a full supply of shells and the shotgun is not pick up :) I should have guessed ... The use of 3D floors and slopes approve, but the fact that sector lighting at almost all levels is monotonous is a minus to the atmosphere. New opponents perfectly complement the standard. It is a pity that stone imps are found only on the first level. Fights with opponents are interesting and require you to save ammunition and change weapons under the situation, especially on the first maps - this is another plus.

 

Nice run through. In my collection:

 

Blue_4_5.png - Visuals (4 / 5)
Blue_3_5.png - Detailing (3 / 5)
Blue_4_5.png - Gameplay (4 / 5)
Blue_3_5.png - Atmosphere (3 / 5)
Orange_3_5.png - Difficulty (3 / 5)

 

Green_4_5.png - Overall Rating (4 / 5)

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