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Nevander

[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

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1 hour ago, Blastfrog said:

 How am I supposed to feel? Indifferent? No, I'm pissed. I have good reason to be pissed. Wouldn't you be pissed too if you found yourself in the same position?

 

 

I wouldn't be pissed because it's not my mod and I don't have the final say on what goes in or not.

I'm just amazed how a piece of software can get you riled up so much.

Edited by jazzmaster9

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21 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I wouldn't be pissed because it's not my mod and I don't have the final say.

I don't have any delusions of authority over anyone else. But I think there's a bigger picture here.

 

If this were any old mod, I wouldn't think twice about it and would go along my merry way. There are a number of popular mods that I think are handled poorly, but I don't care at all. It's not any old mod, though, it's a port of an important game in the franchise. I feel projects like these are a special case that should be handled more conservatively with a sense of responsibility toward doing it right.

 

I've said before that my primary concern is if/when people start making maps and mods for it in the same way they would make a mod for any of the official IWADs for GZDoom. Given that, I don't want gross inaccuracies to taint other works. Get it done right the first time, so that there's a solid baseline for people to work from that isn't flawed from the start.

 

21 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I'm just amazed how a piece of software can get you riled up so much.

Well, I might be a strange one, but you can't say that I don't have a strong passion for quality. ;)

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9 minutes ago, Blastfrog said:

I've said before that my primary concern is if/when people start making maps and mods for it in the same way they would make a mod for any of the official IWADs for GZDoom. Given that, I don't want gross inaccuracies to taint other works. Get it done right the first time, so that there's a solid baseline for people to work from that isn't flawed from the start.

Whats good about modding is that people can correct what they feel isn't right.  This is D64: Retribution, what other people make based on it is on them, not the original creator.

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45 minutes ago, Danfun64 said:

The fact that the GEC devs are forking the 1.9 branch instead of the 3.0 branch or even the 2.4 branch doesn't help matters...)

 

That alone pretty much ensures that no merge will ever happen. Internally 1.9 is very different from 2.x and having an idea why they chose 1.9 over 2.x means that the changes will most likely be incompatible anyway.

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Good morning.@Nevander What are you gonna do now?. Finish all the remaining maps and leave the project as it is?. Or you will still implement all of the features that you planned, as you said in the OP?

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12 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

That alone pretty much ensures that no merge will ever happen. Internally 1.9 is very different from 2.x and having an idea why they chose 1.9 over 2.x means that the changes will most likely be incompatible anyway.

If they release their source, could that at least prove valuable as to see how they accomplished the various Doom 64 features? Because it's not just colored lighting that Doom 64 has that classic Doom lacks, for example additive sector lighting effects instead of the normal light effects. Some others include changing sector colors with scripting, door actions that are made to behave like Doom 64's without needing to do a gross ACS script to hack them in, textures that don't move with sector movements, and more. All of these seem to be present in their engine, so surely they can be possible in 2.x?

 

7 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Good morning.@Nevander What are you gonna do now?. Finish all the remaining maps and leave the project as it is?. Or you will still implement all of the features that you planned, as you said in the OP?

I still plan to do everything I have in the OP, but I can't put any kind of timeline on it I'm afraid.

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On 5/16/2017 at 2:20 PM, Blastfrog said:

1. Set the player's gravity in the actor to 0.857. Under normal 800 gravity, this is the correct rate of gravity to emulate Doom 64's behavior.

Tried this value and I can't cross gaps the same anymore. Using player gravity of 0.857 and normal map gravity with always run enabled and the new player speeds, I can't cross gaps without straferunning. I tested this on MAP04 Holding Area by solving the puzzle and attempting to cross the gaps by running straight across without strafing and I always fall short, starting from the back wall after teleporting.

 

Tried Doom 64 EX and I can cross those gaps in the same exact way (running only, no straferun) using always run and starting from the very back wall. So either the values are wrong, or something is going on with GZDoom or EX and the values are interpreted differently.

 

EDIT: You had the move speed values switched lol, should be this:

Player.ForwardMove 0.7543, 0.96

Player.SideMove 0.9429, 1.0

 

Working now, and it's so hard to tell how close it is to EX because the engine feels so different. Really it feels almost the same as my settings, just with a bit more speed and higher gravity.

Edited by Nevander

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43 minutes ago, Nevander said:

I still plan to do everything I have in the OP, but I can't put any kind of timeline on it I'm afraid.

Gotcha. After all, you're the maker :)

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1 hour ago, Nevander said:

You had the move speed values switched

Actually, no, it was in the correct order in my post. Just because the running scalar values are lower than the walking scalar values does not mean that it's actually slower than walking. This is because those values in DECORATE scale the existing preset speeds that vanilla Doom had it at.

 

For example, forward run was 50 and forward walk was 25. So:

 

50 x 0.7543 = 37.715

25 x 0.96 = 24.0

 

Running is still faster than walking, but the difference is less so.

 

-----

 

That being said, I may have still made an error if my values are not letting you cross gaps that you should. Just a different error than you thought.

 

I assumed (probably wrongly) that sector friction was not tweaked between PC and D64. It had its basis in PSX, which came from Jag, which had many mechanics changes to compensate for the totally different ticrate. So, it probably is different. I know I was going on about how I "know my shit", and I do, but I'm only human and still prone to error.

 

I'm going to investigate this, perhaps I'll consult Kaiser. For now, I suppose the better solution until I figure out new values that take different friction into account, use these values instead:

 

Player.ForwardMove 0.9, 1.2

Player.SideMove 0.9, 1.2

 

These are very close to your original values, just scaled up to take the faster gravity into account.

 

I screwed up, sorry...

 

The way gravity works in the vast majority of games (well beyond Doom) is extremely simple, it's usually just a linear increase in velocity. So I am certain that my gravity value is correct.

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While the Master Edition looks awesome, this will still be my preferred version (and I foresee it will be for most non-purist Doom 64 fans). The fact that it runs on a modified and old version of the source port discourages me a lot.

 

We will lose a lot of cool features that came with later GZDoom versions, like ZScript or the GL improvements, and it will break compatibility with a lot of mods. I highly doubt a merge will be feasible due to the fact that many layers of messy code would have been added on top of an already messy 1.9 codebase. The fact that the source is not open raises my suspicion even more. Even if they maintain their version to be up to date it's very unlikely it will be able keep up in the long term. No offense to its developers, I think what they're doing is astounding, but it represents a totally different use case than what we have this mod for.

 

@Nevander I hope you don't lose the momentum or feel discouraged by the advent of the Master Edition. In my opinion the pros of what we have in Retribution outweigh by far using the other version!

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4 hours ago, Sylandro said:

@Nevander I hope you don't lose the momentum or feel discouraged by the advent of the Master Edition.

I hope so too because they are kicking my ass right now.

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Well, I just finished this tonight, and it was fantastic. There was one level in particular I was dreading getting to, but it turns out it was one of the D64: Absolution originals. {Whew!} Thanks for all you've done on this project!

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You what's really unique about this Doom 64 TC? You can play it in plain old GZDoom, unlike other TCs.

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This TC has the advantage of being in an updated port. 

This also has the advantage of not being mythical and and actually being available to the public unlike GEC.

 

Just do what you love.

There are better mapsets out there than Innocence  X yet i still continue with it because it's out of passion.

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23 hours ago, Blastfrog said:

For now, I suppose the better solution until I figure out new values that take different friction into account, use these values instead:

 

Player.ForwardMove 0.9, 1.2

Player.SideMove 0.9, 1.2

 

These are very close to your original values, just scaled up to take the faster gravity into account.

Now it feels like I'm faster than Doomguy and Usain Bolt combined. The timing seems right as far as how long it takes me to go X distance in comparison to Doom 64, but holy crap it feels fast. Once again, probably due to the actual engine and stuff being totally different and the ticrate too. 60 FPS + that speed and gravity is super fast.

 

I even discovered it's possible to break the MAP04 puzzle if you are fast enough with these speeds... will fix this for 1.3.

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Alright... I decided to go back through the maps again for reverbs, replacing my previous preset choices with custom reverb IDs instead. Some of them are the same presets (i.e. concert hall) but now it's easier to remember them and the normal reverb across most maps is different and sounds way better IMO. My previous choices were kinda ass and made the sound really crackly and most certainly was clipping. It will also be a LOT easier to fine tune them without needing to edit the maps.

 

I am also adding the level freeze effect at the end of each level which was missing. Originally i didn't add it because it stopped music and sound, but I realized a few days ago that the music actually stops even in EX so I will add them now. Now you get the red screen blend that you are used to seeing and the whole map will be frozen now like it should. No more pressing the exit switch beside an Imp which you can hear tickling your ass.

 

The MAP04 switch puzzle thing has been fixed for 1.3, no longer possible to break thanks to the magic of TagWait and SetLineSpecial. Tested it with turbo 255, no longer breakable.

 

I might release 1.3 soon without the new episode and instead release the new maps for 1.4 since I've made tons of changes and I don't want everyone to be waiting around for these fixes and the new maps too. It's been too long without an update, so I want to get one out sooner rather than later so interest doesn't die off too badly.

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Version 1.3 of the mod is now available. The new episode is not ready yet unfortunately, still plenty left to do but here's a bunch of fixes and additions leading up to it. The Retribution episode will be the 1.4 update.

 

NOTE: If you use the D64MUS.PK3 file instead of FluidSynth you will need to download the new version of the OGG pack due to the MIDI lump names being changed to allow for externalization.

 

Download here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/doom-64-retribution/downloads/doom-64-retribution-version-13

 

CHANGELOG:

Spoiler

Version 1.3 (5/22/17) [current]
GENERAL:
- Externalized music into LANGUAGE strings so individual maps can have their music changed independently, this means that any music packs will need to have new names to reflect the new MIDI names in the main WAD
- Added an option to always or never show map names upon map load (option in Doom 64 Features Menu)
- Added TEXTCOLO lump to fix wrong red colors from BIGFONT generated text (ZDoom menu titles, HUD, etc.)
- Added standard player death sound replacement for the higher pitched and rarer death sound (DSPDIEHI)
- Fixed incorrect Doom II gib sprites if player was gibbed by being crushed
- Player gravity increased from 0.6 to 0.7 to feel closer to Doom 64's gravity
- Player speeds increased from 0.65 (walking) and 0.85 (running) to 0.7 (walking) and 0.9 (running)
- Armor HUD label position in standard Doom 64 HUD adjusted to be more centered above armor value
- Map arrow for player in automap is now a triangle instead of the normal classic Doom arrow
- Radiation shielding suit now counts as an item towards item percentage
- Barrel explosion sprites with the barrel are no longer fullbright
- Barrel explosion radius increased from 128 to 136 (16 more to total diameter)
- Rocket explosion radius increased from 128 to 136 (16 more to total diameter)
- Fixed an issue where hitscan enemies would not have dynamic lights when firing
- Adjusted the dynamic light behavior of weapon firing to look better and flicker more
- Adjusted dynamic lights of Demon Keys so the light comes from the center of the sprite and adjusted the pulse interval and sizes so that they better match with the size and animation of the sprites
- Rocket dynamic lights are now red to match the rocket projectile and Rocket Launcher flash as well as being adjusted to appear to come from the back end of the rocket sprite
- Chainsaw will now auto switch when picked up if the player has switch on pickup turned on
- Increased radius of Hell Knight and Baron of Hell from 24 to 26
- Hell Knight and Baron of Hell will now infight with each other
- Chaingun will now only play the fire sound once if there isn't enough ammo to fire two bullets
- Adjusted the attenuation of the BFG projectile explosion so it can be heard from farther away
- Unmaker will now switch away automatically if you reach 0 ammo and don't hold the fire button
- Adjusted gravity of extra blood so it doesn't instantly fall to the floor
- Adjusted offsets for teleport fog to be a bit higher off the ground
- Adjusted offsets for Pain Elemental death animation to look more fluid
MAPS:
- The Story so Far: Fixed a minor issue which could cause the music to play for one tic if the always skip intro CVAR was enabled and sound backend was set to OpenAL
- Finale Text Screen: Adjusted timings so THE END line appears after a longer delay like the original
- MAP04 Holding Area: First Hell Knight in hallways will now spawn when taking platform Chaingun outside
- MAP04 Holding Area: Fixed an issue where it was possible to break the switch sequence if fast enough
- MAP04 Holding Area: Improved code for solving puzzle, switches now behave like the original
- MAP07 Research Lab: Stimpacks in slime tunnel moved onto side edges as to not be in the nukage
- MAP14 Eye of the Storm: Lightning and thunder effect is now less aggressive like the others
- MAP17 Watch Your Step: Sergeants in the elevator hallway will now fade in instead of teleport
- MAP22 Burnt Offerings: Adjusted the timings of the Soulsphere secret to be closer to the original
- MAP22 Burnt Offerings: Recoded and fixed the Hell Knight pillar room to behave like the original
- MAP22 Burnt Offerings: Improved coop compatibility of the red key wall trap and fixed an issue which could cause the red key wall trap walls to sink into the floor or stay lowered, will now kill anything in the way
- MAP24 No Escape: Opening the doors at the start will no longer be extremely loud
- MAP24 No Escape: Mancubi will now fade in after taking Soulsphere instead of teleport
- MAP28 The Absolution: Mother Demon will now fade in when starting the final fight instead of teleport
- MAP29 Outpost Omega: Added switch height check flag to switch beside green armor (can still item grab though)
- MAP30 The Lair: Fixed an issue where the player could get stuck under the two side switches that lower outside
- MAP31 In the Void: Fixed a sightline where the map geometry could start to disappear on the way to blue key
- MAP34 Test Facility: Hologram Zombiemen in weapon range will now appear when spawning instead of teleport
- MAP34 Test Facility: Added glass ceiling windows to the props room above torches
- MAP34 Test Facility: You will now always get 100% on all stats when exiting the map
- Textures in various areas of various maps cleaned up and properly aligned
- Code for fading in things removed from all individual maps (sans MAP34) and made into a universal library
- All maps now utilize reverbs and can be disabled through the features menu (mid-map changes require game restart)
- All map exits now freeze the game world when the screen blends like the original
- Removed useless empty DIALOGUE lumps from each group of map lumps

 

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Indeed. The original choices for reverbs were quite obnoxious to be honest, so I toned them down to be more subtle. They are a lot easier to hear if the music is off though. You may also notice the reverbs change depending on the type of room. If the area is huge and would definitely echo, it will echo loud and long. A good example is the final room of MAP04. Inversely, small areas that are outside or have some kind of sky nearby will echo but it will be virtually unnoticeable. Finally, fully outside areas do not reverb at all.

 

Also, the reverbs I used are all new custom ID combos, so you can open up the REVERBS lump and edit them to your hearts content without ever needing to mess with any maps. I will take suggestions on how to improve the reverbs to be even better, if such advice is given. Originally I used Factory Large/Small Room but changed to Spacestation Hall. I liked the sound of that one way more and used it as the main reverb.

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Nice, nice. This release has shaped the project up to more of what it should be.

 

At this point, I am not truly concerned about Retribution's accuracy, anymore. It's still not perfect, but the new gravity and player speed is definitely more in the ballpark, which is all I ask for in a project only meant to closely approximate Doom 64, as opposed to getting it balls-on accurate.

 

GEC is the way to go once it's completed and if it makes its way to mainline compatibility. Until then, Retribution is quite enough.

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Next update is definitely going to be the new episode, since it's past due from when I wanted to have them out. After the new episode is done, I will then focus on bringing over the Absolution and Outcast maps.

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Looks like something else that is borked in GZDoom 3.0.0. The DECORATE code is very simple, all it does is forces the Translucent powerup mode which is right in GZDoom itself, no fancy trickery. So odds are this is something wrong engine side.

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Hello to everyone

 

right now I am playing the original doom 64 and there are two things that bother me:

1) why the hell I keep seeing an auto weapons switching during a fight even thought I still have ammo in the weapon I chose to start the fight with?

2) is there a chance somebody here can tell me how to install the absolution source port which can be found here:http://www.doom2.net/doomdepot/abs-download.html

 

to sum up I want to add two more things:

1) unless you know another way please don't tell me to speak with Kaiser (I already tried to write him threw this site and threw email using these emails:

svhome@gameslink.net and kaiser@newdoom.com

2) for the source port I want to add that I don't use Doomday engine nor jdoom

 

many thanks for all the helpers

 

 

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On 6/20/2017 at 11:39 PM, SlamJamJordan said:

Any status update on 1.4?

I am going to be working on maps today. I also hope to get some new DECORATE stuff written in. I've also made many more bug fixes to the main maps as well.

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