[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

Make it fire a homing projectile. Simplicity is best.

Also, I reccomend using Deathmatch Classics ingame Nailgun sound for this nailgun, and The Unreal Tournament Biogun firing sound effect for the Plasma-Acid Pool Hybrid Gun

3 hours ago, Voros said:

Make it fire a homing projectile. Simplicity is best.

A revenant Rocket launcher perhaps??????? still could use cells ;)

Added a camera so you can watch the Unmaker upgrade travel down the conveyor. Lol.

1 hour ago, Nevander said:

Added a camera so you can watch the Unmaker upgrade travel down the conveyor. Lol.

(((INTENSE HOLLYWOOD FILMING WITH DRAMATIC ORCHESTRA)))

Still dawning on that Idea and honestly its best to say that a Plasmatic Flame thrower could do the job for the new weapon, It would use Cells like you originally wanted and itd spew a cool blue flame or electric looking cloud that clears the way. also fits the sprite in that magazine you showed very well.

Nearing completion of Shadows Watching. Hardest part of that map so far is the fake 3D room with the four pillars. The amount of reworking I had to do was pretty unreal, however now it looks accurate to the original map as well as a lot better at the same time. The Arachnotron door trap is improved now and is more "cinematic."

Also almost done with Doom 64 Museum. Thanks to 3D floors, you can now actually get on top of that floating square in the key room. If you use the corner Megasphere's raising floor, you can move around and raise it high enough to run over and land on top of it.

Forbidden Deeper will probably be a bit tricky because somehow the Absolution TC is able to fling monsters and they use Boom format for the maps. I know I can use ThrustThing and will probably need to do that for the right effect. The one thing I'm not sure of is how to fire darts vertically.

Finished Shadows Watching, about 45% done with Forbidden Deeper.

The amount of gross sector hacks the original maps use to fake the 3D stuff is so ridiculous. It makes reworking and fixing it for true 3D floors such a PITA but I end up with a much cleaner map with less "errors." I don't even know how the original maps did that stuff to be honest. Some kind of unclosed sector trickery or something to "hide" the void space above actual void space. Voidspaceception.

I got the vertical darts figured out and they work great. I just inherited from normal darts, and then used a rotated version of the dart sprite, then fired it with a negative vspeed.

That sounds crazy, once again thank you for all the hard work and I look forward to the next update!

It is indeed quite crazy. I kinda like fixing up those areas of the map though. It's "fun" to remake the areas and use proper 3D floors to create those areas. The real fun part is coming up with the solutions and figuring out which places to draw new lines and where to join and merge sectors to reduce the sector clutter.

Oh yea, also I fixed the key bars in Forbidden Deeper. In the original TC's version, you can actually like... just walk though the key bars and go right to the exit switch. Did the maker of that map even test that lol?

EDIT: Figured out how to fling the monsters into the arena. :D

Combination of ThrustThingZ and ThrustThing. Under default gravity, I found the perfect amount of force so they land inside without a hitch. The only potential "hitch" is if something is in the way of the landing spot, but in my testing so far the only issue is that they might land on top of your head or another monster's head.

I might end up separating out the waves so that they could only ever land on the player's head. Will continue to tweak...

Anyone know if anything ever became of the three unfinished maps from the Outcast levels? The readme file in the Absolution TC says:

"These are unfinished levels that never made it to outcast, you can do whatever you want with these. -kaiser"

Did anyone ever "finish" them? If not, looks like I will.

I get the overall impression that by the time this was a thing (Outcast Levels) nobody seemed to give a shit outside of hardcore D64 fans on the PC and those unfinished levels were left as-is. So, it looks like you may very well be the first person to ever take a crack at 'em! Congrats.

6 hours ago, Nevander said:

Anyone know if anything ever became of the three unfinished maps from the Outcast levels? The readme file in the Absolution TC says:

"These are unfinished levels that never made it to outcast, you can do whatever you want with these. -kaiser"

 

Did anyone ever "finish" them? If not, looks like I will.

You absolute mad man. :D

I love your work and dedication to this. <3

The player falls beneath the floor on Cat and Mouse if the player doesn't move from the spawn point and gets killed by the cyberdemon (this may not apply to just the cyberdemon).

And I've noticed that I can see the parts of the sky flicker from black to normal depending on the player direction and location. Probably has to do something with the fact that it's not an actual sky, rather emulating one.

Alright. I noticed that one of the unfinished maps looks like it was an earlier version of Destroy because it shares parts of the map (meaning they are actually identical). I will be removing the duplicated areas and then adding new ones to that particular map. There are two unfinished tech maps and one Hell.

I also already came up with names for the unfinished maps. I am going to be sticking with Outcast's way of naming the maps with only one word. The two unfinished tech maps are going to be named Control and Forge, while the Hell map will be named Derelict.

4 hours ago, Voros said:

The player falls beneath the floor on Cat and Mouse if the player doesn't move from the spawn point and gets killed by the cyberdemon (this may not apply to just the cyberdemon).

And I've noticed that I can see the parts of the sky flicker from black to normal depending on the player direction and location. Probably has to do something with the fact that it's not an actual sky, rather emulating one.

Hmm... I still can't seem to reproduce either of these things on 2.2.0 of PC GZDoom. When the Cyberdemon kills me I just sink to the floor itself and stop like a normal death, and in Cat and Mouse and In the Void I don't see any black sky flickering. The void space is an actual sky though, I used a skybox with all 4 walls set to that flat color. What version of GZDoom are you using where this issues were present?

1.8.6

Alright. I have to come here and ask for the community's thoughts again because I am at a bit of a loss on what to do.

On one hand, I want to include every Doom 64 thing ever. This means the primary exclusive maps made for Doom 64 Absolution and the new items and monsters, with the exception of totally new user maps for Doom 64 EX. Doing every single custom Doom 64 EX map ever is a shit ton of work, if someone wants to play their map in Retribution I'd be more than happy to write up a conversion guide. In fact, that's a good idea so people can start doing maps of their own in a general sense.

However on the other hand, a bigger part of me (let's say 60% says yes to this hand) wants to ignore all the new items and monsters and instead convert the maps using the standard Doom 64 item and monster selection, making appropriate substitutions where needed.

Now... some points for why I'd not add the actors. Of course what I'm about to say is all opinion and subjective, but I have to share my thoughts so the fans of Retribution can help me make the right decision.

• The Nightmare Cacodemon is essentially a Cacodemon that is four times as annoying. Super fast and aggressive. Generally speaking, I hate annoying enemies in games and I think Doom 64 already has a good range of monsters.
• The Nightmare Spectre is just a normal Spectre but with like double health, is it really necessary to add them?
• The Stalker is like the Nightmare Cacodemon equivalent to Lost Souls. They are twice as annoying, teleport everywhere, and fire the tracer missiles that the map hazards usually do. I'd rather add map hazards to fire these projectiles as a substitute.
• Acid Demon is actually a good idea to make the normal Pinkies more of a threat instead of just invisible, but I'd not want to add only one new monster from the group and not all. For me with something such as this, it's all or nothing.
• The Grenade launching Arachontron (I don't know it's real name) seems to be a bit on the throwaway side. From what I've seen (and granted I've never actually played Outcast through before) they are kinda useless. A normal Arachnotron is just as good, maybe better.
• There's some kind of new zombieman enemy that has red pants and looks like he's meant to fire a chaingun or actual rifle. Same issue as the Nightmare Spectre, basically the same thing already?
• Hell Potions (the red health boosts) seem to be identical to Health Bonuses, just red with a new name. Really not necessary unless you like the idea of the health boosts in Hell maps being red, which is cool but in a game like Doom seeing a red health vial might make you think it's bad to pick up.
• The new automap item, it supposedly also shows items on the map but I have no idea how to do that in GZDoom and anyway you can just type am_cheat to do that. Not to mention the computer map is fairly rare as it is and relatively useless.
• There's two new actual powerups but I have no idea what they do. One is a black skull looking thing with frames named DETH and one is a cat eye thing with frames called SEE. Can't say much else, I should probably play through Outcast before actually deciding what to do.

The biggest problem is the new Unmaker upgrades. I want to add these at the very least, but I have no idea how to do either of them in the context of the Unmaker itself. Apparently in the Absolution TC (and again, I have not played Outcast yet) you can switch modes of the Unmaker to use the different upgrades. I have no idea how to do this in GZDoom and the Unmaker's code is complicated enough as it is. Not to mention I have no idea how to do Helltime in GZDoom since you can't actually do "slow-mo." I am tempted to replace these two new upgrades with two of the normal ones from the main game.

The biggest issue with not adding anything new would be that Outcast would just become a new set of maps to play and that's it. Not like it's a bad thing, classic Doom has survived more than 20 years with countless new maps without new actors. This also means I would severly limit anything new added in the Retribution episode, although the two new weapons are still planned. I am not sure about new enemies. I had considered making the Titan boss real and even started a map but once again, no idea how to implement this and I suck at spriting.

If I didn't add any of this stuff and instead just went with standard Doom 64 stuff, would anyone miss it? Please help me decide so I can get to work on more maps. Making the Outcast maps kinda depends on my deciding what to do, since the DoomEd numbers for these new items would need to be translated to either the standard counterparts or the new items if I choose to add them. I'd rather do this step during conversion so I don't have to go back and figure out which things were which.

Thanks.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, another idea of mine on how to add these would be as a separate addon which would randomly spawn the new ones in place of the originals and not have to touch the original actors at all or deviate the main mod. I might go this route but I am once again unsure.

I think you should do the addon, which would be after the fact, so by then everything else is done, and prior to the addon you can focus on the maps.

10 hours ago, cyan0s1s said:

I think you should do the addon, which would be after the fact, so by then everything else is done, and prior to the addon you can focus on the maps.

I think so too. I went ahead and started working on the addon by compiling all the unique resources from Absolution and Outcast into a PWAD which can be used down the line to incorporate them or not.

For right now, I will do what you suggested and focus on maps since swapping out things placed on the map is a simple process. I managed to complete a play-through of the Outcast levels earlier and came to the realization that the new monsters and items are actually quite useless or unnecessary as my first predictions were. They aren't used very frequently and the couple times they were used they were just a nuisance. However, like I mentioned above the Acid Demon is actually quite clever, but I still doubt I'd add just the one.

Got around to using Levitation and Hell Time and I think I know ways I could do it but there's still the problem of how to activate them. In the TC they are chosen by pressing the Unmaker key. It's almost as if the upgrades aren't even upgrades but are instead copies of the Unmaker with special functions that occupy the same slot, and that's probably how I'd need to do it if I were to do so.

Thats all good and fine, but I also realized the new upgrades aren't that useful. Hell Time is nice but having one of the other normal upgrades would be just as well. Hell Time also takes 20 HP each use which I thought was weird, I guess for balance or something.

ANYWAY...

In summation, the current plan for Outcast and Absolution exclusive stuff is to cut them from Retribution and instead work on them separate and then decide what to do later. In the mean time, maps are still the priority.

Also I do intend to convert Redemption Denied levels over as well. They are incredibly detailed and so far the one I messed around on was quite enjoyable. So for 1.4 I might end up doing a release with Absolution, Outcast, and Redemption Denied added as 3 new episodes. I know, I know. Retribution is still very overdue but to be honest I still have a shit ton of work to do on those. I think I will end up pushing Retribution to 1.5. Sorry dudes, I'm trying my best.

I just want to get some new content out for you guys even if it's just maps.

EDIT: I also just realized this thread is turning into a dev blog. Is that ok if I continue to do this kind of thing with updates on what I'm up to?

4 minutes ago, Nevander said:

p1 I think Doom 64 already has a good range of monsters

p2 The Grenade launching Arachontron (I don't know it's real name) seems to be a bit on the throwaway side. From what I've seen (and granted I've never actually played Outcast through before) they are kinda useless. A normal Arachnotron is just as good, maybe better.

p3 Hell Potions (the red health boosts) seem to be identical to Health Bonuses, just red with a new name. Really not necessary unless you like the idea of the health boosts in Hell maps being red, which is cool but in a game like Doom seeing a red health vial might make you think it's bad to pick up.

p4 Not to mention the computer map is fairly rare as it is and relatively useless.

p5 Hell Time also takes 20 HP each use which I thought was weird, I guess for balance or something.

1. Overused Hell Knights everywhere, oh yeah.

2. The name is Nightcrawler. Because the grenades don't explode on contact, so I agree.

3. They're supposed to heal 5% health instead of 2%, but I don't experienced that.

4. Doom 64 has a comupter map?

5. What version do you use? I'm never experienced that.

18 minutes ago, Spectra said:

1. Overused Hell Knights everywhere, oh yeah.

2. The name is Nightcrawler. Because the grenades don't explode on contact, so I agree.

3. They're supposed to heal 5% health instead of 2%, but I don't experienced that.

4. Doom 64 has a comupter map?

5. What version do you use? I'm never experienced that.

1. They are a bit spammed but at the same time your arsenal was buffed and don't forget the Unmaker. Three blasts from a SSG turns them into somewhat of a "normal" enemy for Doom 64 in a sense. It's Barons that I still hate.

2. Thanks, I forgot about the page the TC has on the wiki.

3. Yea they seem to heal 2 points just like normal bonuses. They must not have done something right.

4. Sarcasm? If not, yes... yes it does. Although the usefulness is nullified by enough map knowledge and the computer map is only a little more common than the light amp goggles.

5. As far as I know I am on the latest version of the TC and Outcast to be released since I downloaded it exclusively for the sake of converting this stuff over. Once I am done it's gonna get deleted super quick. But yea, when I use Hell Time I lose 20 HP. Maybe it was some random bug.

I say fuck it, and add everything in eventually, Talented mappers can make use of such extra things and actors to experiment with, have fun with, or make effective use of them. Yea its a lot of work, but do it all later when you are for sure done on the more important things. 

And for the slow motion, isn't it possible for everything in the map to slow down, except the players and the enviorment? You could just make it do a temporary freeze console command and bam itll be all good and dandy

Currently working on Destroy from Outcast. About 30% done. Hopefully the Outcast maps will go quickly since they seemed to be even simpler (pun kinda intended) than the normal Doom 64 maps and even the Absolution maps. As I mentioned above I do intend to convert the Redemption Denied levels and now I also hope to convert The Reckoning, both by @Steve Searle.

I'm not 100% sure on a release date for 1.4 including all these new maps. Ideally I'd love to update the mod on Halloween since it kinda works as an appropriate date. The end of the year would be the very latest.

But, when the update does come, you can expect 33 new maps. Yep. That's right.

• The exclusive maps from the Absolution TC (6)
• The Outcast Levels + the unfinished levels (10)
• Redemption Denied (8)
• The Reckoning (9)

I know the amount of times I've pushed Retribution back is going to be a broken record but what can I say.

4 hours ago, UAC-Janitor said:

And for the slow motion, isn't it possible for everything in the map to slow down, except the players and the enviorment? You could just make it do a temporary freeze console command and bam itll be all good and dandy

Only issue with using a PowerTimeFreezer is that it actually freezes the things completely. In the Absolution TC, everything gets slower including enemy fired projectiles. It's almost as if it's an area of effect that makes everything have a slower speed until the use runs out. Ideally I'd want to find a way to do that without editing any actors.

Keep it on you're to-do list if you're not sure what approach to take. You can always come back to it later and focus on something else.

I've never played the Outcast levels so I don't know how the slowmo works there, but I saw this for zdoom, perhaps you can use it as an inspiration?

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=57013&p=1006025&hilit=bullet+time#p1006025

I went ahead and finished Radiant (the secret level from Outcast). It's now 100% more badass and I also expanded the level re-building itself. You now have more room to fight the Cyberdemon because the outermost platforms with the health on it will lower down like the innermost walls do after the Mother Demon dies.

Does anyone know if the Redemption Denied levels have real names? I found the names for the Reckoning in the Maps.ded file for the Absolution TC but d64denied.wad has no accompanying info lumps. I did PM Steve Searle and Agent Spork but no response yet.

On 8/25/2017 at 2:53 AM, Nevander said:

Does anyone know if the Redemption Denied levels have real names? I found the names for the Reckoning in the Maps.ded file for the Absolution TC but d64denied.wad has no accompanying info lumps. I did PM Steve Searle and Agent Spork but no response yet.

There is a chance they may not have actually written the map names on the maps themselves and relied solely on the .ded for map info.

On 8/24/2017 at 0:17 AM, Nevander said:

But, when the update does come, you can expect 33 new maps. Yep. That's right.

• The exclusive maps from the Absolution TC (6)
• The Outcast Levels + the unfinished levels (10)
• Redemption Denied (8)
• The Reckoning (9)

I know the amount of times I've pushed Retribution back is going to be a broken record but what can I say.

To have all these fantastic level packs in one place is a dream for me.

Keep up your mapping mettle as the marine kept up his resolve through the Stygian depths of Hell itself!

16 hours ago, Houndoom said:

To have all these fantastic level packs in one place is a dream for me.

Keep up your mapping mettle as the marine kept up his resolve through the Stygian depths of Hell itself!

Indeed. That is one of the primary goals now of the project, to have all the official maps from the original game and "semi-official" maps from the original TC ported into my TC as a single file. Progress is good, and hopefully I can maintain this pace.

Just finished remaking Destroy, on to Stepwalk! I already did Radiant.

This will become the definitive DOOM64 pack in terms of just sheer content for the fans.