Why are slaughter maps looked down upon?

1 hour ago, CapnClever said:

As for why this dislike comes across with such toxicity and vehemency, well, you're dealing with a subcategory of map design that has historically been most liked by thoroughly experienced players. Hell Revealed was developed by an early champion of the demo community. Anyone who's only spent time in Doom1/Doom2 will be completely lost as to how to deal with modern slaughter maps, which assume a certain degree of aptitude and understanding about weapon and monster characteristics.

Check out this review of Hell Revealed: "i hate this. Too many monsters. dull texture . unimaginative. with teenage boys who like to play on a thousand opponents, and so many . totally inadequate as an intellectual product. What a good career ? UAC Ultra, Phobos2,Earth, Shotgun Symphony, Demon Eclipse1, etc. Hell Revealed a shit."

Once again, we see them using age as an insult, probably because ignorance.

Also, horrible grammar and overall terrible writing.

I enjoy watching slaughter wad demos or youtube runs of them. Where's no way, that I could handle them in proper way without screaming on my keyboard and doing other not very intellingent stuff. I appreciate people who give their energy and time to master slaughter wad gameplay and control demon hordes like a silly toy.

@Flareblood_V2 I'd call bad reviewers a separate problem altogether independant of slaughtermaps.

lol at intellectual product tho

Historical question. Was Hell Revealed the first slaughter mapset in Doom?

17 minutes ago, bonnie said:

look who's talkin bud

Welp, you got me.  I spent the first 1.5-2 years of my Doom experience playing slaughter almost exclusively.  I've found something I enjoy greatly but know there's still a lot more out there for me to play.  So what have I done?  I'm playing more incidental/hallway combat stuff, trying to expand my palette.  

Set piece styled maps(to me, at least) have an easily digested nature.  Maybe the fights are hard but they're individual pieces to be handled at once.  Incidental-styled wads tend to have a pacing I don't quite yet understand along with hitscanner traps to introduce difficulty without a strong emphasis on player movement.  I'm seeing more of this as I go on with Alien Vendetta but I'm still enjoying myself, still playing it.  

I'd really prefer you engage in a discourse with us in this thread that's constructive rather than a one-liner attack on me personally.  I've never actually taken it upon myself to talk to you until you were talking badly of me in elmle's twitch chat, while I was gone, and then continued to do so under alternates if I wasn't around.  I'd say we could actually talk in there during his streams while he played some things, maybe discuss the maps he's in, but you're banned so I don't see that happening any time soon.

4 minutes ago, loveless said:

I spent the first 1.5-2 years of my Doom experience playing slaughter almost exclusively.  I've found something I enjoy greatly but know there's still a lot more out there for me to play.  So what have I done?  I'm playing more incidental/hallway combat stuff, trying to expand my palette.  

I'm in the opposite. Playing casual maps then discovering slaughter maps (even some awful maps made by a banned user which has +1220 and +7400 monsters, respectively). And discovering some casual or classic mapsets is also not bad, it broadens your POV even more, you know :)

Also, this struggle of tastes for maps will never end, that's for sure. And you said in a simple way...if you don't like it, don't play it.

37 minutes ago, Flareblood_V2 said:

Check out this review of Hell Revealed

Well, I automatically ignore these types of comments with insulting the author, or just $h!t on something without giving detailed reasons.

25 minutes ago, loveless said:

I'd really prefer you engage in a discourse with us in this thread that's constructive rather than a one-liner attack on me personally.

wew lad

25 minutes ago, loveless said:

I've never actually taken it upon myself to talk to you until you were talking badly of me in elmle's twitch chat, while I was gone,

the only time i've ever said anything bad about you in his chat was one time i said i thought your stream was boring

then suddenly one day i made a joke about you playing my map and you freaked out saying all about how you would never ever play one of my maps because i supposedly called you a bitch, which is funny, since i'm 90% certain i've never called you a bitch before

in fact, i've never actually unironically called anyone a bitch since it's literally pretty much a joke insult that doesn't mean anything to me, so if by some chance i actually did call you a bitch, it was as a meme

25 minutes ago, loveless said:

and then continued to do so under alternates if I wasn't around.

not really sure where you got the idea that i've been coming back under even more alts and talking shit about you, i thought we cleared that one up but clearly you're still hinging on that idea

ya know i actually felt pretty stupid when this only occurred to me a few days ago, the whole alts thing. i was so confused as to why elmle was starting to hate me more and more without me doing anything, until I realized that it was because he sorta thought the same thing you did and thought that every troll that has ever come to his channel ever was secretly just me using various alts, even though i only have 1 alt that i used when i thought he really hated me so i could get him to play the latest eagle speedmapping session

25 minutes ago, loveless said:

 I'd say we could actually talk in there during his streams while he played some things, maybe discuss the maps he's in,

w e w

l a d

edit: also i think slaughtermaps are bad thank you for listening

25 minutes ago, loveless said:

Set piece styled maps(to me, at least) have an easily digested nature.  Maybe the fights are hard but they're individual pieces to be handled at once.  Incidental-styled wads tend to have a pacing I don't quite yet understand along with hitscanner traps to introduce difficulty without a strong emphasis on player movement.  I'm seeing more of this as I go on with Alien Vendetta but I'm still enjoying myself, still playing it.  

The key with HR/AV's tougher stuff/Scythe [2]/KSutra/etc style maps is to learn to see the entire map as one extended set piece, and route accordingly.

1 minute ago, Cynical said:

The key with HR/AV's tougher stuff/Scythe [2]/KSutra/etc style maps is to learn to see the entire map as one extended set piece, and route accordingly.

That sounds about right.  Kama Sutra was a great experience overall and I think I'll have the same experience with Alien Vendetta.  I'll have to remember this when playing, thanks!

What's that? Dumpster fire? As Picard would say "make it so."

Just now, geo said:

What's that? Dumpster fire? As Picard would say "make it so

Computer, tea, earl grey, hot.

it's much easier to call maps bad than admit you suck...

This is the first I've heard about people hating slaughter maps. It's not that I find them too hard, but rather that I find them too slow and repetitive. However, it's entirely possible that this disposition may change favourably down the road. At some point I'd like to try playing through Sunder with Russian Overkill. That might be fun.

I like the idea of slaughter maps. A well orchestrated attack at the player that is meant to keep them on their toes. Creating an expectation and then making the player reassess. The problem with most slaughter maps is that they're so long and time consuming. As someone who likes to play everything on UV without saves until I either fall in defeat or triumph. I find maps that go on too long are mostly just a time sink and it doesn't work well for me. I find that maps that can be UV Maxed in about 10-12 minutes to be the sweet spot for me. I can typically beat one map per play session, so going above that sweet spot really extends my session more than I am comfortable with. I am probably pretty casual. Then I go through this existential crisis about saving, and I'd rather avoid that stress.

authors who have 'proven' themselves to me are generally exceptions to this loose, unexplainable, irrational and self-imposed playstyle. 

I think maybe the heart wants what the heart wants, and sometimes passion is raucous. Hopefully, no one is basing their Weltanschauung on the opinions someone else draws.

45 minutes ago, loveless said:

Computer, tea, earl grey, hot.

But I thought you weren't supposed to mix liquids with computers.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Flareblood_V2 said:

"I cannot even begin to express how much I loathe these idiot slaughter fests. How old are the authors? 12? Sick to bloody death of downloading garbage like this and having hopes of an enjoyable game pissed all over. Mark crap like this for what it is - idiot overkill crap."

Why would you trust the opinion of someone who's name is "idiot overkill crap?"

2 hours ago, Flareblood_V2 said:

Once again, we see them using age as an insult, probably because ignorance.

Maybe they're projecting.

Speaking of bad wad reviews, I actually find them to be quite hilarious. Theres some oddly comforting harmony to imagine someone who hates doom hating the wads he plays which are made by someone like me who loves doom and loves what I create.

1 minute ago, Da Werecat said:

Maybe they're projecting.

Yeah usually whenever someone says "lol what are you 12" they're like 17. I'll guess that the formula is something like:

^agea ^{= age}t^*1.4

18 minutes ago, 40oz said:

 

 

Why would you trust the opinion of someone who's name is "idiot overkill crap?"

If the reviewer in question is who I think it is, then I'm not sure this even counts as a joke!

So what are some slaughter maps that people here actually enjoy?

18 minutes ago, Master O said:

So what are some slaughter maps that people here actually enjoy?

...That sounded vaguely like an insult.

I liked Sunlust on HNTR as a whole apart from MAP17. The SF series and Chillax have provided some fun with the Russian Overkill mod...I haven't got much else. I would say though that I think they're a lot more fun in general on multiplayer servers, by far.

Lunatic and Vanguard were fun.

Dark Tartarus, the first one, was fun to play and I did it modded...

3 hours ago, Flareblood_V2 said:

What a good career ? UAC Ultra, Phobos2,Earth, Shotgun Symphony, Demon Eclipse1, etc. Hell Revealed a shit."

Once again, we see them using age as an insult, probably because ignorance.

Also, horrible grammar and overall terrible writing.

With the exception of Hell Revealed, I believe the reviewer likes those mapsets, and for some strange reason, I can't be upset with a player who likes Shotgun Symphony. ;)

I was actually around when Punishr first came out. I probably checked it out within a month of it hitting idgames. I remember laughing and telling myself, "No one's gonna do anything this insane again!"

Yet another failed prediction on my part . . . :D

Ribbiks, danne, Demonologist, dobu gabu maru and tourniquet are all brilliant mappers who do slaughter. I did some abbreviated HNTR testing of Swim With The Whales and I was Cynical's HNTR tester for his funass map Impure Offering. All of which proves that even though I'm 850 years old and cut my teeth on traditional base maps, somehow I heard the siren call of slaughter and kinda got into it. I think it was mainly because so many of the maps looked really cool, so I play them on HNTR. I lack the skill to play them on UV. I wonder how many of the people who dislike slaughtermaps played them on UV, found them intolerable for various reasons, and quit, rather than try lower difficulties? Sometimes in life you gotta ease yourself into things. You're not always ready to take the big plunge. If you try slaughter on HNTR, then maybe over time, you can bump things up to HMP, or maybe, like for me, HNTR will always be fine. I just don't want to ace myself out of cool Doom experiences, although I'll be the first to admit I'm not a Doom Renaissance Man. Me and puzzlemaps do not get along. ;D

The slaughter debate has been ongoing for years and will continue as long as there are Doom fans. It's one of those "different strokes" things that happens to be really polarizing. 

1 hour ago, Master O said:

So what are some slaughter maps that people here actually enjoy?

I can make a short list of some wads I really liked and I'm sure others can tack on good ones I have forgotten.  

Sunder, Italo Doom, Slaughterfest 2012, Slaughterfest 3, Toilet of the Gods, New Gothic Movement 1 & 2, Strange Place, Disciples of Darkness, Stardate 20X6 and 20X7, Combat Shock and Combat Shock 2, Dimensions, Darkwave0024, Darkwave0032.

5 minutes ago, loveless said:

I can make a short list of some wads I really liked and I'm sure others can tack on good ones I have forgotten.  

Sunder, Italo Doom, Slaughterfest 2012, Slaughterfest 3, Toilet of the Gods, New Gothic Movement 1 & 2, Strange Place, Disciples of Darkness, Stardate 20X6 and 20X7, Combat Shock and Combat Shock 2, Dimensions, Darkwave0024, Darkwave0032.

Toilet of the Gods?  Is that seriously its name?