The DWmegawad Club plays: Plutonia Revisited Community Project

Map03: Escape from Ghost Town by UltimateLorenzo

Well...same track and same theme. Nothing special. Just beware 2 points: one is the 2 revenants on the ledge (as @Obsidian mentioned) and the other is that there are so many lost souls.

MAP03 – “Escape from Ghost Town” by Lorenzo

"Ghost Town" is a map that I truly enjoy. Its memorable architecture and meticulous gameplay added a sense of constant progression. This new version, however, adds too few elements to its predecessor to truly stand out.

You are tossed into the action at the start. The Cacodemons hovering around your area can pin you down as you try to eliminate the Chaingunners and Sergeants. This, I think, is the biggest difference. While “Ghost Town” eased you into the fights, this map forces you to move fast. This was the most enjoyable portion of the map, as most scenarios after this follow “Ghost Town” to a fault and the elements that are added feel more annoying than interesting.

Most of the ingredients of its predecessor are present. The first area you go to has the Chaingunner turrets, the Spider Mastermind guarding the blue-key and a few higher-tier enemies (Revenants and Mancubi) as potential infighting targets. This area is rather obnoxious with some trial-and-error gameplay. Also, the infighting scenario here seems to be luck-based as I was unable to force infighting consistently. Following this is the flesh staircase that with the Chaingunner and Arch-vile ambush. The final confrontation has the Arch-vile and Baron of Hell combo, with a few Hell Knights, Cacodemons and Lost Souls thrown in.

One notable difference is the abundance of Lost Souls during the various sections of the map. While they occasionally can push you out of cover, they fail to be anything more than a minor nuisance and ultimately, they don’t add much to the combat. It might have been more interesting had there been a couple of Pain Elementals instead, and this is coming from a person who hates them with a passion!

In terms of aesthetics, the map is almost exactly the same as its predecessor. The secrets were pretty useful, but were not borderline essential like in the previous map, so that was a plus point for the map.

Despite the enjoyable start, the map is rather underwhelming as a whole. I found certain maps from Plutonia 2, like “Collider Complex”, “Arch-Violence” and “Cybernation”, to be new and improved versions of their Plutonia counterparts (“Baron’s Lair”, “Hunted” and “Cyberden”, respectively). This map on the other hand, in both appearance and gameplay, mirrors “Ghost Town” a bit too much and somehow manages to make it boring and tedious.

Map 03: Escape from Ghost Town

UV, Continuous, No mid-level saves

PrBoom+

This wound up being an enjoyable map. The original “Ghost Town” is one of my favorites, and this nicely captures its feel. If anything, its adherence to the original might almost be too much, as I was able to predict more than a few of its traps just by being familiar with its inspiration (the monster variety by the fleshy stairway is exactly what you’d expect, for example). Still, it’s not all copied, and it’s all fun to play.

I do have to point out that this is yet another map that’s stingy on ammo for what you have to do. I wound up finishing with a single shell, 37 bullets, and no rockets. If I hadn’t poked around to find the Plasma Rifle secret, I wouldn’t have been able to finish. (The secrets here are nicely intuitive, by the way; I found them all just by chance.) I’m left wondering why the first three levels here seem almost allergic to giving you too much gear, when the original Plutonia is always quite generous, even from pistol starts. It always focuses on movement and combat for challenge; so far this wad seems intent on adding resource management to the mix. I’d like to be enjoying its setups more often and scrounging for ammo less.

Anyway, fun stuff in this level regardless. My favorite part was the Spider Mastermind courtyard, and the surprise ambush behind the chaingunner balconies. I also love those two sneaky Revenants placed as turrets over the inside of the door in that area. That’s the kind of trap that feels right in the spirit of Plutonia, despite never appearing in the original. You can’t help but laugh when you see it, even if it gets you killed.

MAP03: Escape from Ghost Town - HMP, Continuous

This map is heavily inspired by map 5 from Plutonia, going so far a borrowing a few set pieces to use here. The use of Chaingunners here is completely obnoxious & very trial & error based. There is a very specific path you need to go from the start & you will die constantly until you figure out that specific path. I hated how slow this map needed to be played, you are constantly forced to hide behind corners or retreat from areas due to all of the Chaingun & Revenant snipers. Besides the start there were a couple other really annoying moments, like the chaingunner trap on the fleshy stairs. Though the worst area in the map by far is the Spider Mastermind room, if you don't know what to expect you will pretty much instantly die in this area. There's not much to say about the visuals either, it doesn't add anything to make it stand out above Ghost Town. This is just a map that isn't fun or interesting in any way.

MAP03 - “Escape from Ghost Town” by UltimateLorenzo

Yeah, not too keen on this one. Heavily rips off the original Ghost Town while neither looking nor playing any better. The main courtyard area looks extremely bare and under-detailed too for all that space. The gameplay is largely focused on hitscanners, with the most dangerous situation occurring in the Mastermind area. You better know where to run and what to flip or get perforated! I actually took the "wrong" path first, with the exit area looking and playing nearly identical to the Plutonia map; complete with Viles on the ground and turret Chaingunners. The Plasma Rifle is also obtained really late into the map, to the point where I had 300 cell ammo when I got it. And is there a reason every level has been throwing backpacks at you? You're never overloaded on ammo from Pistol Start, so it only helps continuous hoarders. Meme map/10.

MAP03: Escape from Ghost Town

I will admit to not being a huge fan of this one, which crosses the line from inspired by or homage to into remake of; it's all too reminiscent of Plutonia's MAP05: Ghost Town, feeling rather tired and uninspired.  I didn't much care of the eastern node which secures the blue key, which felt confining and artificial, a series of chores rather than a succession of challenges.  I think I'd find the gameplay more appealing if the map itself was more original, and I think I'd be more forgiving of the directness of the level's references and design if the gameplay within was more surprising and engaging; as it is, this is the first sour note of the WAD for me.

MAP03 Escape from Ghost Town

Almost a straight-up homage of the original, with more open fields to get shot up in, woo. Gotta take this one slow due to the hitscanner walls, just peekaboo firing (yes fight me I use the camping tactic here). Or rush to the stairs, chaingun in hand, and go down the line. The east yard has the spiderdemon and several other hitscanners in a much more painful place, since that area with the terminals is not completely safe from the main hitscanner troops and the spiderdemon is a watchful one. The alcove monsters where the rocket launcher are make for some nasty management too, I'd like to keep my rockets for the spider. The rest of the endgame plays out much like the original, flesh stair ambush, and the end fight are pretty similar, although a bit more open on the latter.

Map 03: "Escape from Ghost Town" by UltimateLorenzo

Not familiar with this map so I can do an FDA (a bit sloppy since it was my first Doom of the day and I hadn't slept much). This might have been an okay map but it just felt really awkward at times. It's not so much that fights are tedious (bar the MM if you actually want to kill it), but that moving around and stuff doesn't feel so good, and there's also a lot of obnoxiousness in the form of the hitscanners and stuff. The yard is populated at one point with lots of mid-tiers, and the thing is if the map had been more fun up to that point I might have stopped and played around a bit, but given their low-threat level it just felt like it'd be janitorial work in the context of a map that was pretty awkward up to that point. I also skip the barons/HKs at the end for this reason.

I guess I'm the only one who really liked Map 03?

It might be unambitious in its homaging, but I find the moments where it differs are clever. It isn't a better level than "Ghost Town" by any means, but rather than invalidating it, playing it feels kind of listening like a cover or remix of your favorite song. It doesn't replace the original, but you can appreciate the elements that are changed. It's a Doom the Way Id Did level.

I guess tolerance for it is going to depend largely on your tolerance for the original and for that kind of heavily similar remix-esque mapping. I'm okay with it, as fun is fun and I guess I'm okay with even a kind of derivative Plutonia level, but it's also one of the things the "Revisited" project promises to be on the tin. (Not the only thing, since I also expect mappers filtering Plutonia's gameplay through their own lenses, but one of them.)

Currently five levels deep and without spoilers it's my favorite so far.

2 minutes ago, Cipher said:

I guess I'm the only one who really liked Map 03?

 

It might be unambitious in its homaging, but I find the moments where it differs are clever. It isn't a better level than "Ghost Town" by any means, but rather than invalidating it, playing it feels kind of listening like a cover or remix of your favorite song. It doesn't replace the original, but you can appreciate the elements that are changed. It's a Doom the Way Id Did level.

 

I guess tolerance for it is going to depend largely on your tolerance for the original and for that kind of heavily similar remix-esque mapping. I'm okay with it, as fun is fun and I guess I'm okay with even a kind of derivative Plutonia level, but it's also one of the things the "Revisited" project promises to be on the tin. (Not the only thing, since I also expect mappers filtering Plutonia's gameplay through their own lenses, so long as the result is enjoyable, but one of them.)

nah I enjoyed the original Ghost Town more, it felt a lot more solid and felt fresher to me, since, well it's the first time I'd seen the map. I'd appreciate it more if it just went for a more direct homage or put less chaingunners in, but it really just ends up being one of those maps that doesn't feel gratifying once you beat it, but rather like you just got through a torture session. that's just me though, to each their own :)

1 minute ago, bioshockfan90 said:

but it really just ends up being one of those maps that doesn't feel gratifying once you beat it, but rather like you just got through a torture session.

Oh, man. Just wait until we're talking about Map 04 then.

Anyway, yeah, to each their own.

7 hours ago, SGS Man said:

One notable difference is the abundance of Lost Souls during the various sections of the map. While they occasionally can push you out of cover, they fail to be anything more than a minor nuisance and ultimately, they don’t add much to the combat. It might have been more interesting had there been a couple of Pain Elementals instead, and this is coming from a person who hates them with a passion!

I always think nobody feels combat with lost souls AND pain elementals is interesting.

MAP03: This sucked, this is how you remake a map into something worse. The original Ghost Town has a nice setup in the first courtyard that here turned into 3 big and bland areas where the gameplay focuses on hitscanners set in an annoying way. For the blue key and the exit area I don't know what to say, those are just slight variations of the original.

MAP03. Time: 12:19. Kills: 100%. Secrets: 100%.

I don't like the hitscan heavy beginning of this map, but the rest of the map is pretty fun. The portion with the Mastermind is kinda tricky and makes you nervous even though it isn't that hard. Also I don't think it's possible to kill everything without secret plasmagun.

prcp_arch_03.zip

4 hours ago, lirui1001 said:

I always think nobody feels combat with lost souls AND pain elementals is interesting.

Yeah, I should have been clearer with that sentence. I meant that having Pain Elementals instead of Lost Souls could have made for a more interesting experience.

That statement was just one thought I had while playing this map. I felt that placing one Pain Elemental in the open courtyard, the Spider Mastermind room and the final area instead of all the Lost Souls would have been way more enjoyable. These Pain Elementals would produce a steady stream of Lost Souls, rather than release all of them at once, giving the player time to respond to the situation. Simultaneously, I think Pain Elementals are fantastic infighting targets because their constant barrage of Lost Souls at other monsters creates more infighting targets for those monsters to deal with. That is why I thought their addition might have fixed some of the complaints I had with the map.

MAP02 - Temple of Cetza:

The layout and design were good enough, but I didn't really like this map much... . Punching a few demons is fun but this map takes it way too far, it really makes the whole thing feel like a grind. Also I don't know if I missed a weapon somewhere, but killing multiple midtiers with the shotgun and chaingun made me regret going with pistol starts.

I also got confused for a moment by the "red switch".

MAP03 - Escape from Ghost Town:

I'm not a big fan of being surrounded by hitscanners in the open and having to figure out where to go fast enough to survive, it's basically a matter of trial and error and I'm really bad at guessing :S, also the amount of damage you take while exposed seems a bit random.

After the opening hitscanner nonsense, the rest of the map is pretty much just ghost town, it's ok I guess, I liked some of the changes to the encounters, but nothing was specially remarkable.

MAP03: Escape From Ghost Town

Death Count: 0

So the remake was in this slot, memory failed whatever... I don't know UltimateLorenzo and this is their only contribution in this mapset. Almost everything was like how I remembered, back then the rightmost part was a nightmare for me, but this time it came out pretty well. The secret soulsphere helped a lot. My personal .deh makes the spider wander more freely so I had her practically on my nose by the time I was near the blue skull. The hairiness (if that word exists) toned down after grabbing the precious plasma rifly, for the other ring. In contrast to the iwad's Ghost Town, the archies come out from behind the player, plus lost souls, why people complained about lost souls here? There aren't that many to represent a nuisance, if we have to talk about tediousness, the chaingunners are the only stars. Threat-wise, ok lost souls don't add too much, we all agree...The exit room is easy to cheese, and it involves a short switch hunt. So the map is tight in ammo but works well for a slow pace. Some unnecessary revenants here and there, particularly one in the main wooden building you practically never feel its presence. Visually, I really like the flesh room, it's one of my favourite iwad themes. Also, another good iwad midi. Yeah personally I approve this map.

-------

Strange that both Demtor and the "Loquacious member" are not posting here yet, I miss their presence.  

I've always been a big Plutonia nut so i love this wad for having a number of maps that nail the style despite this set having inconsistent quality in parts. While PL2 is more consistent i think the mapping style there is not particularly similar to the Casali stuff outside of stereotypical enemy usage, so i found that much harder to enjoy, personally. I don't care that homages are rife in some maps as long as i like playing them. I first played this back in 2013 when i started getting seriously into Doom and it'll be interesting to see how my memories of the maps stand up, given that i'm now heavily into mapping and have studied the hell out of the original Plutonia maps to try and understand what i like about them so much. I'm looking forward to E2, i have fond memories of that, particularly the pair of evocalvin maps.

I must say i think this wad takes a little while to get up to speed, i think it's worth sticking with it past the first couple of maps, which iirc are not the strongest maps in the wad.

GLBoom+, UV-continuous just so i smash through the maps quicker and actually stand a chance of completing a full month of DMWC for once... will post every couple of days hopefully.

1 - Stonewall

Texturally takes cues from the likes of Congo and Aztec but to me this felt more like an early a PL2 map, thanks to some relatively claustraphobic combat and particularly how the map was detailed. Pretty hard hitting for an opener, it's easy to get trashed by chaingunners if you aren't careful. The map is ok but plays a little slow for me compared to Congo.

2 - Temple of Cetza

Punching the shit out of loads of pinkies? It's fun and all but... I felt this map really missed the mark, like it was just some random map with Plutonia textures applied.

3 - Escape from the Ghost Town

An uninspired and blatant copy, poorly executed. Annoying snipers remind me of TNT.

4 - Emerald Pools

After a somewhat shaky start to the megawad this is where things pick up, in my opinion. Omen-esque texturing is mated to a compact and novel layout that packs a nasty punch - but in real Plutonia spirit, you are given the heavy weaponry to get stuck in and go on the attack. This was apparently built in one day, nice! Very cool map. Having fun now.

Again this had a slight PL2 vibe to it in some of the detailing, and i'm interested to see how many maps have this feel (given the ability to easily push Vanilla limits with modern editors) or whether it's just a Joshy specific thing. I took a quick look at the dev thread for this wad and interestingly it was implied that PL2 was fair game as a source of inspiration too, so i'll be looking to see where that might crop up.

Map04: Emerald Pools by C30N9 and Joshy (aka The Omen v2.0)

Wow. You can get BFG in this map. If you are skilled enough you can teleport on the exit platform and kill the cyberdemon in 2 blank BFG shots.

MAP04. Time: 8:09. Kills: 100%. Secrets: 100%.

Surprisingly tough map. Didn't like the beginning of it that much but later parts were fun.

prcp_arch_04.zip

Map 04: Emerald Pools

UV, Continuous, No mid-level saves

PrBoom+

After a decent if slightly slow opener, Joshy contributes to a level with a few moments I like and a lot I unfortunately can't stand. It's close, but ...

This one takes an interesting approach, breaking from the references and remixes of the first three levels for gameplay that feels, on the surface at least, like Plutonia’s knockabout arcade-style, without any direct homages to the original game as far as I can see. That’s what I’ve been waiting for. We finally have a map that's generous with ammo too!

So why is it so unfun?

This level feels like a testament to just how carefully selected the Casali brothers’ layouts and monster selections were. This level bares its teeth a little, which is nice, but combat is more grating than interesting. The initial encounter in a hallway with a Baron, Mancubus, Caco, Revenants and Arch-Vile turret outside, is less lethal and more of a grind to go through each time you fail. So is the long section with the bridge over the nukage, which contains entirely too many Cacodemons, and they don’t always hover in on time.

There are interesting encounters near the end of the map, but they’re less “solvable” in a methodical way and more “ready your BFG for three Arch-Viles running around in an open space." It's almost like the half of "The Omen" behind the lift wall, but the size and shape here serve to remove options and strategy from the final encounter. Exciting, but not all that satisfying, and it doesn’t feel good to be caught by it when the first two-thirds of the map are so slow.

It’s interesting how close you can get to Plutonia’s gameplay in terms of level structure and rhythm, yet fall so far away in terms of encounter arrangement and pace. It actually reminds me of my least-favorite level from the iwad, “NME,” which contains similar amounts of wait-and-snipe gameplay before one or two toothy traps (though that winds up being more consistently tense, especially from pistol start, because Milo Casali is some kind of level-design genius). With a few tweaks, this could have been enjoyable. As it stands, it’s my least favorite level so far and the only one to actively frustrate me upon dying. I’m not against maps going further out from the source here than Map 03, and I hope they do (I'm a little further out than this level and they definitely do, in good ways), but if they’re going to be cruel, they have to also be punchy fun.

A Baron in the starting hallway surrounded by shotgun ammo. Why? Just freeze my screen for thirty seconds instead.

Plutonia Revisited Community Project
MAP03: Escape from Ghost Town
HMP Difficulty, using GZDoom and Brutal Doom
10/3/2017

And here begins to notice more spam from enemies. From the beginning we came across quite a few sniper chaingunners, long distances and with relative coverage, apart from being accompanied by a bunch of zombies and lost souls; even so it is not impossible to defeat them, a little tedious if it will be, in part my taste is like this, I do not enjoy so much enemy spam or massive surprise attacks, but for the moment this seems passable.

The architecture of the map begins to change a little, it reminds me a lot of a coliseum, we start the map under a tower and we are surrounded by columns and walls from which the enemies flank us, everything is still coffee of course, and some others lianas or moss, the map is big and simple, it only consists of 2 long paths, the first one to take will lead us to the blue key, which is sheltered in a kind of garden with 2 levels of height where multiple enemies constantly attack us , we must activate some buttons to access the second level, ah, almost forget, we also have to be careful with a Mastermind that attacks us without mercy, and here we probably do not want to spend ammunition to kill it, at least I did not.

Behind this boss is the blue key, we obtain it and we must take the way back to the last place, where we will enter through 2 connected infested paths of enemies and we will have to face several barons and chaingunners when arriving at the area of the bleachers, after this we just have to open the box with the blue key, destroy the surprise enemies and open some doors to finally win the map. The positioning of the enemies was interesting, constantly attacking from a distance, not impossible, in addition, that is the touch that usually has PE. Apart from that this time we have much more resources which will help us in a flexible way to win the map.

MAP04 - “Emerald Pools” by C30N9, Joshy

Now this is my favourite map so far. We get our first Cyber surprise as well as a free BFG to go with it. Continuous players will be ballin' from this point on. Big fan of the midi, which sounds like a remix of Demons on the Prey from Ultimate Doom. I honestly feel as though the BFG is somewhat overkill and not really required this early on. The final section can be easily taken with just the Plasma Rifle and Rockets. The gated slime areas with the keys can be escaped quite easily. Never found what that one secret was though... The visuals are also a bit bland, similar to the previous map.

MAP04: Emerald Pools, by C30N9 and Joshy|7:44|100% kills|

It's better than the previous two maps, is all I have to say as far as the bigger picture goes. Sure, it's nothing that'll make you stop for amazing visuals and the monster placement is kinda questionable at points, but the layout's solid and the gameplay is tricky yet fun. This reminds me a lot more of Plutonia, and it has some great moments to boot. However, that being said, like before I don't agree with putting the BFG in nor do I agree with some of the archie placements, especially at the end (oh okay I can just  back out and rocket-snipe them easily, that's not even a threat), and I was wholly expecting a cyberdemon at the end, but oh well. As far as I'm concerned, this is a pretty good map. 

P.S- apparently on UV there's a cyb, whelp there goes my argument for that 

1 hour ago, bioshockfan90 said:

P.S- apparently on UV there's a cyb, whelp there goes my argument for that

Yep, he's on that ledge by the exit teleporter on UV. You can see the bloody hooves in my pic.

MAP04 – “Emerald Pools” by C30N9 and Joshy

After the disappointment that was MAP03, “Emerald Pools” certainly delivers! It opens with quite the rush, throwing higher-tier monsters at you. Unlike the previous maps, it gives you a lot of weapons and ammunition at the start. However, the monsters here are basically bullet sponges. Their placement isn't all that threatening but, it still takes quite some time to clear them out. Failure means you have to repeat this grind again.

The area near the nukage pools has some fun moments. The Cacodemons float in and are easily dispatched, while your mere presence causes some infighting outside. The first switch is followed by a quick fight with a few Revenants that forces you to traverse the nukage while picking them off. Clearly inspired by the map title, this scenario of cramped fights amidst nukage pools is one of the most noticeable tropes this map uses. The draining nukage pool after the second switch uses a pretty standard Cacodemon and Pain Elemental combination. After you take the yellow-key, you are greeted with an ambush which is pretty manageable with all the space available.

Finally, the best portion of the map! You are given a BFG-9000 here, which does seem rather excessive. This, I think, seals how the maps are balanced for Pistol Starts (You pretty much get the full arsenal in this map alone). The Cyberdemon adds constant pressure as you scramble to eliminate him or to get to the blue-key. The teleporter room is cramped, has a Hell Knight and is filled with nukage. You are teleported to the blue-key chamber, where an ambush awaits you as soon as you pick the key up. Revenants and Hell Knights swarm into the small chamber, and you either have a punchy fight with them within the confines of the chamber or manoeuver your way to the teleporter to gain some breathing room. You have a similar fight, with a few Arch-viles added in, as you take the red key. However, the escape from here is a lot easier. You can now proceed to the exit and/or deal with the Cyberdemon if he’s still alive.

This map stands out in both gameplay and aesthetics when compared to the previous maps. I thought the nukage pool theme was done quite well and most encounters were fun rather than tedious. The cramped sections were engaging and not overwrought like in some of the 1024 mapsets. The secret was simple and useful and there was plenty of ammunition to help you cut through the hordes. The midi was a cool remix of “Demons on the Prey”, one of my favorites from The Ultimate Doom. Despite the monotonous start, the map redeems itself.

MAP04 Emerald Pools

Nice, low monster count as well as simple, short setup, this is certainly the kind of map I expect for this project. Still pulls a few punches even when its short, the higher-tier enemies take most of the enemy force, with some simple ambushes to deal with, also the archie near the plasma gun at the start. The end area kind of sucks when getting the keys though, just sit on your key pedestal and fire away at those that warp in. Apparently this has a cyber on UV, but whatever.

I like pain elementals and lost souls by the way. My favorite monsters.

Not related to PRCP, just a quick thought for a recommendation: 

If someone could compile a lot of really good singular sets of 1-to a-few good maps released in a certain year and compiled it, could that be played for the club? I'm thinking of the TNS retrospectives, but enough to fit a full month's worth. Maybe a few year's span... I dunno, I think it'd work out pretty well.

Glboom-Plus - UV Pistol Start - Saves

Map03 - Escape from Ghost Town

Hitscanners. So many hitscanners. Health isn't the most common thing around either so you have to be very careful. Other than that, I don't really have much to say. The archvile trap was where I died the most.

Map04 - Emerald Pools

This map is a lot more fun than the last one. The monster placement is much more strategic than the last map, and giving you plenty of ammo as long as you're not trying to waste it. The slime courtyard makes for an interesting battle, and i enjoyed the pressure that the cyberdemon places on the player (You can also use it for infighting if you want.) The red key trap is very deadly if you aren't prepared for it, which I learned the hard way. At the end of the level, I ended up having to kill the cyberdemon because it kept blowing me to bits the instant I stepped through the teleporter.

FYI for the crowd in the Cyberdemon room: You can also pick off pretty much everything but the Pinkies from the entry platform, and it's actually easier that way. Then you get to kill the Cyberdemon undisturbed before moving on.

It was actually one of the things that drove me nuts about that map. I guess you could say no guts no fun and that I should have jumped into the fray each time, but I'd say levels really shouldn't build in safe, slow alternatives if the level isn't enjoyable with them. I certainly had no desire to play the starting room or bridge-Caco section more times than I had to, so I took that spot methodically each time. It's one of those things where a dull beginning encourages dull, safe play later, since you desperately don't want to be sent back to it again.