Question about uploads containing IWAD sprites.

I have a simple question about uploading PWADs to /idgames. The FAQ says, it won't allow, and I quote, "Unmodified parts of any IWAD". But it doesn't go into any detail. So does this mean that any PWAD for Doom/Doom2 with Hexen/Heretic monsters will be rejected ?

Officially and legally, you can't share anything with IWAD assets, e.g., adding Heretic monster sprites to your Doom WAD. Realistically though, *cough*

29 minutes ago, Linguica said:

Realistically though, *cough*

It appears idgames will drop your upload if unmodified resources are detected.

% curl -s http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/REJECTS | grep 'contains unmodified id Software resources'
Fri Jan 13 23:26:21 EST 2017 Rejected RunLate.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Fri Jan 13 23:26:21 EST 2017 Rejected RunLate.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jun 28 16:48:31 EDT 2017 Rejected HTS.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jun 28 16:48:32 EDT 2017 Rejected HTS.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Jul  1 20:29:43 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Jul  1 20:29:43 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sun Jul  2 14:37:10 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sun Jul  2 14:37:10 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Jul  3 17:12:54 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Jul  3 17:12:54 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 08:14:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 08:14:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 22:45:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 22:45:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Jul 25 10:42:31 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Jul 25 10:42:31 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Aug  9 22:15:38 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Aug  9 22:15:39 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:09:50 EDT 2017 Rejected dm2pal.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:09:50 EDT 2017 Rejected dm2pal.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:12:29 EDT 2017 Rejected MD.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:12:29 EDT 2017 Rejected MD.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Aug 26 23:08:28 EDT 2017 Rejected witness.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Aug 26 23:08:28 EDT 2017 Rejected witness.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Oct  3 20:00:49 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Oct  3 20:00:49 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Oct  7 12:47:27 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Oct  7 12:47:27 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Oct  9 20:07:59 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Oct  9 20:08:00 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources

8 minutes ago, RjY said:

It appears idgames will drop your upload if unmodified resources are detected.

% curl -s http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/REJECTS | grep 'contains unmodified id Software resources'
Fri Jan 13 23:26:21 EST 2017 Rejected RunLate.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Fri Jan 13 23:26:21 EST 2017 Rejected RunLate.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jun 28 16:48:31 EDT 2017 Rejected HTS.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jun 28 16:48:32 EDT 2017 Rejected HTS.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Jul  1 20:29:43 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Jul  1 20:29:43 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sun Jul  2 14:37:10 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sun Jul  2 14:37:10 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Jul  3 17:12:54 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Jul  3 17:12:54 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 08:14:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 08:14:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 22:45:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.TXT because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Jul  5 22:45:40 EDT 2017 Rejected PLUT3.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Jul 25 10:42:31 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Jul 25 10:42:31 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Aug  9 22:15:38 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Wed Aug  9 22:15:39 EDT 2017 Rejected BLABS2.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:09:50 EDT 2017 Rejected dm2pal.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:09:50 EDT 2017 Rejected dm2pal.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:12:29 EDT 2017 Rejected MD.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Aug 21 17:12:29 EDT 2017 Rejected MD.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Aug 26 23:08:28 EDT 2017 Rejected witness.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Aug 26 23:08:28 EDT 2017 Rejected witness.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Oct  3 20:00:49 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Tue Oct  3 20:00:49 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Oct  7 12:47:27 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Sat Oct  7 12:47:27 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Oct  9 20:07:59 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.txt because: contains unmodified id Software resources
Mon Oct  9 20:08:00 EDT 2017 Rejected 007ltsd.zip because: contains unmodified id Software resources

 

Interesting. I've seen a couple WADs here and there that borrow assets from IWADs, other than the IWAD the PWAD was meant to be played on. How did these get through ?

To be honest, I think this requirement for uploading PWADs is a bit harsh. I don't remember it being this strict back in the day.

Just like with everything else, some guys are just too big for rules.

Yeah, this question also annoys me, as I use Ancient Aliens resources, which requires to convert iwad things in that colourful pallete, so main stuff won't look like garbage. How skillsaw got away with this thing?

11 minutes ago, Myst.Haruko said:

Yeah, this question also annoys me, as I use Ancient Aliens resources, which requires to convert iwad things in that colourful pallete, so main stuff won't look like garbage. How skillsaw got away with this thing?

Well technically I guess changing the palette references of IWAD images would qualify it since it will actually be modified, so you may not have a problem there. Probably how Skillsaw got his through. Legally speaking the image would be altered. Even if it looks identical to human eyes, the binary that represents the image would be different.

59 minutes ago, Niya said:

Well technically I guess changing the palette references of IWAD images would qualify it since it will actually be modified, so you may not have a problem there. Probably how Skillsaw got his through. Legally speaking the image would be altered. Even if it looks identical to human eyes, the binary that represents the image would be different.

You would think so, but I've had palette altering material rejected for use of IWAD graphics.

13 minutes ago, Urthar said:

You would think so, but I've had palette altering material rejected for use of IWAD graphics.

Hmmm. Ok. What about recolours of IWAD graphics ? Would that be accepted ?

Wasn't Minor Sprite Fixing thing accepted because it changed offsets?

1 hour ago, Niya said:

Hmmm. Ok. What about recolours of IWAD graphics ? Would that be accepted ?

Eternal has recoloured imps and is on id games, so... maybe?

Eternal has a lot of things. Like a whole buncha Raven assets - unmodified, IIRC (aside from palette conversion). But it's a very old wad.

BTW, donut steel any of its contents - readme states they don't give you a permission! Gasp!

3 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Wasn't Minor Sprite Fixing thing accepted because it changed offsets?

It was rejected the first time. It was only a year later after I saw the aforementioned Ancient Aliens got accepted that I decided not only to make a second appeal but also to invite an open community discussion on the very matter being brought up here: Are projects like AA, BTSX, Sunlust, and more that follow in these footsteps under risk of being excluded from the archive because they must abide by the inescapable technical necessity of including seemingly "unmodified" sprites? The included sprites are unequivocally modified from an objective technical perspective, but the question was are these modified "substantially enough"? I argued that the intentions of the authors should be taken into account, and there there is a clear desire of good faith in these products not to infringe on anyone's copyright. These are not frivolous or trivial endeavors. They have achieved beyond a shadow of a doubt genuine and sincere contributions to the community, and having to accommodate the technical necessities of the game should not be a slight against them.

Ultimately, I was simply told to resubmit the Minor Sprite Fixing Project at that point for reconsideration, and it was accepted without additional discussion on my part.