Speed of Doom map 30

Hey y'all,

I just beat Speed of Doom for the first time (amazing WAD, BTW). I was wondering though, how in the world do you max a level like that?? I watched the demo on dsda, but it didn't answer my question. :-\ How can you tell that 1) all the original enemies are dead, and 2) none of the original enemies have been resurrected, in a map as zany as this one?

I think it's impossible with the current tools and these maxes are bogus.

Further reading:

Huh, interesting reading there... Not to resurrect that old topic, but is it really too hard to add a proper "UV-max counter" option to prboom that actually decrements every time a real, original monster gets rezzed?

Normal counter: increments every time you kill something, no questions asked. Stops when you reach the number of starting monsters.

"Smart" counter: ignores IoS-spawned monsters. Also doesn't count re-kills, and stops when you reach the number of starting monsters.

"UV-max" counter: Strictly follows the rules for UV-max. Basically a smart counter that counts down if an original monster gets resurrected.

Only the original enemies in the map are killed, this can be checked using smart totals in prboom, sadly there is nobody to set clear rules for maps like this or the worse case that is sl30.

Back in my Memento Mori LP, I had a few runs where I just couldn't get 100% kills on MAP30 no matter what I did (not to mention half of the fucking maps there were buggy as shit or required coop to 100% so idk why I even bothered anyway)

Since then, I've given up with trying to max-Kill IoS maps. It just isn't worth it. 

18 minutes ago, stru said:

Back in my Memento Mori LP, I had a few runs where I just couldn't get 100% kills on MAP30 no matter what I did (not to mention half of the fucking maps there were buggy as shit or required coop to 100% so idk why I even bothered anyway)

I can't seem to find a single mm map on the DSDA that does not have several UVmaxes:

http://doomedsda.us/wad674m230.html
 

Same deal with mm2.

1 hour ago, stru said:

Back in my Memento Mori LP, I had a few runs where I just couldn't get 100% kills on MAP30 no matter what I did (not to mention half of the fucking maps there were buggy as shit or required coop to 100% so idk why I even bothered anyway)

 

Since then, I've given up with trying to max-Kill IoS maps. It just isn't worth it. 

The ZDoom-based source ports count kills differently than vanilla. In vanilla Doom, you can go over 100% kills by killing resurrected enemies a second time, and by killing enemies spawned by an Icon of Sin. This is because in the "x out of y" monster counter, y never ever changes. Z-ports actually increment y though, for the IoS and pain elemental spawns. IIRC, they also decrement x for archie resurrections. So that's why you can't get 100% kills in IoS maps in ZDoom. :-\

The rules of UV-max basically state that all monsters present at the start of a level have to be dead when you exit. So you can get a max if spawned enemies are still running around.

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I can't seem to find a single mm map on the DSDA that does not have several UVmaxes:

http://doomedsda.us/wad674m230.html
 

Same deal with mm2.

Probably has to do with using ZDoom vs. vanilla/BooM. Those ports probably handle it differently.

The general idea is that you kill the enemies that start in the map (and any resurrections). The problem in large-scale IoS fights is that it's basically impossible to keep track of what was revived and what wasn't. For something like SoD 30, it's probably fine if you just max out the smart kill counter. You'll find that most of the starting low-tiers die anyway, so that leaves the Cybers and priority targets to take care of.

Use smart total on PrBoom+.

7 hours ago, 42PercentHealth said:

Huh, interesting reading there... Not to resurrect that old topic, but is it really too hard to add a proper "UV-max counter" option to prboom that actually decrements every time a real, original monster gets rezzed?

 

Normal counter: increments every time you kill something, no questions asked. Stops when you reach the number of starting monsters.

"Smart" counter: ignores IoS-spawned monsters. Also doesn't count re-kills, and stops when you reach the number of starting monsters.

"UV-max" counter: Strictly follows the rules for UV-max. Basically a smart counter that counts down if an original monster gets resurrected.

The other question is: How do you know that the monster you're shooting at is an original map-placed, non-resurrected monster? A floating "boss health" bar above monsters could be modified to show if a monster is a respawn or not - might be a cool option. In KBDoom, resurrected monsters can be made translucent, which does essentially the same thing. But I was never very happy with it: The translucent part should be the monster's "soul", and should float up (or down :), which leaves you with the original look, accomplishing nothing. Maybe a "pale" color-remapper drawer could make the skin clammy looking, suggesting a resurrected monster. That would be more engaging than a floating bar, which diminishes immersion.

23 minutes ago, kb1 said:

A floating "boss health" bar above monsters could be modified to show if a monster is a respawn or not - might be a cool option.

Health bars are not allowed for the purposes of demo recording.

I did figured how to get 100% kills on IoS maps if you play on ZDoom based ports (though it won't help out against monsters that Arch-Vile resurrected). I can send you a wad file I did if you need it, it works perfectly.

12 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Health bars are not allowed for the purposes of demo recording.

Have you seen the health bar mods in Zandronum 3.0? Shit is so cash. 

4 hours ago, stru said:

Have you seen the health bar mods in Zandronum 3.0? Shit is so cash. 

What's worse than seeing a manc survive 3 SSG blasts? Seeing how there's only "one pixel" left in its health bar.

I tried to search "speed of doom" from idgames but no success. Where can I donwload it? Or am I too drunk?

19 minutes ago, Jaska said:

I tried to search "speed of doom" from idgames but no success. Where can I donwload it? Or am I too drunk?

You can either use the search bar at the top of this page, but change "This Topic" to "Files". OR, if you're using the /idgames search, make sure you search titles and not filenames.

OR, you can follow this link: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/sodfinal