My beef with doom3

the thing that im really not going to like about this game is thats its going to be like a movie. I mean after you beat it the first time (which will probably be non stop playin from day 1) then thats it. There no Co-op, no Real impressive MP. So after you beat it, and all the OOOH AND AHHH about the graphics end, then it gose back into the old shoe box with the rest of them.

Half-life was movie like, yet I still found reason to finish it over several times. plus it's an id game. and their are always repayable.

Ct_red_pants said:

Half-life was movie like, yet I still found reason to finish it over several times. plus it's an id game. and their are always repayable.

Yeah, but half wasn't that movie like. Take Max Payne or Metal Gear solid for example. They have practically no other ways at all. Proceeding in the game is even more restricted than in Half-life. And if they put thousands of in-game movies, conversations and so on, that's even worse. In half-life there were very little of those.

dude, The only reason half-life became big was because of team fortress classic and Counter-Strike. you think anyone would have givin a damn If half life was single player with 4 person MP. Plus i got an attention span of about 4.67 nano-seconds. I mean hell, ive probably only finished about 1/5 of all the games I have. never finished RTC-wolfenstein, or Metal of Honor.(Should probably get back to those) I think to me and most PC gamers its the MP that sperates Computer games from Consoles.

No. Half-life would not have become popular unless the single player game was good enough to inspire mod makers to make mods for it. And might I also add, that I am not the only one who thought it was good enough to finish over more then once. It wasn't slapped with "game of the year" stamps by about 50 different reviewers (which valve are very happy to remind us in the opening avi) because of a couple of mility player mods when it was first released back in 1998... with no mods at all. true, it wasn't long before it was shipped with Team fortress, but I can assure you, before 2000 (the year counter-strike was released) people got it for the mainly for the awesome single player experience.

And I might also add that I don’t give a flying fuck about online games. Which is just fine for doom 3. By the sounds of it, it sounds basically like a really polished cross between half-life and Alien vs. Predator 2 with hell spawn which IMHO is a great Idea. It sounds like your expecting a quakeish game with better graphics. If so, I can assure you, you are going to be disappointed.

custom SP-map will give DOOM3 replayable value.

and DOOM MP won`t be 4 player limited.Tim Willits has clear that.They don`t even start working at multiplayer part yet.

if DOOM3 MP won`t be decent,so?there are other great MP game already.(Q1/2/3,UT,RTCW,MOH,BF1942,CS...)The world need new SP game.

Theif said:

the thing that im really not going to like about this game is thats its going to be like a movie. I mean after you beat it the first time (which will probably be non stop playin from day 1) then thats it. There no Co-op, no Real impressive MP. So after you beat it, and all the OOOH AND AHHH about the graphics end, then it gose back into the old shoe box with the rest of them.

Dude, you haven't even TRIED the game yet.
One thing I just can't stand are people who just dismiss a game for the fact that they're sp focussed, without even giving it a try.

Anyway, how the fuck would you know that the game won't have replayability? The old Doom had a very similar gameplay (not surprising as Doom 3 IS another Doom game), yet it had superb replayability. Quake 1 and Quake 2, though nowhere near as innovative gameplaywise as Doom, are both fun to play over again in the sp.

You multiplayer freaks don't know how to use your imagination, therefore you don't understand how to really play an sp campaign because you don't know the art of being immersed in a game. Most multiplayer games are just brainless shooting at everything that moves whereas singleplayer games also involves the brain - that's what imo make sp games far superior to mp games.

The first time you play through Doom3, I doubt you'll find much in the way of easter eggs and secrets and stuff... You'll want to play through it at least once more to find all the stuff you missed. There's bound to be some nice hidden stuff.

dsm said:
You multiplayer freaks don't know how to use your imagination, therefore you don't understand how to really play an sp campaign because you don't know the art of being immersed in a game. Most multiplayer games are just brainless shooting at everything that moves whereas singleplayer games also involves the brain - that's what imo make sp games far superior to mp games.

ALL MULTIPLAYER FREAKS NEED TO READ THIS.

Dark-tenshi said:

and DOOM MP won`t be 4 player limited.Tim Willits has clear that.They don`t even start working at multiplayer part yet.

Please find that quote for me :)

I don't see what kind of brain you need to be lead around by a storyline. To make it clear: being "immersed" in something doesn't require much intelligence, otherwise the smartest people in the world would be the most dogmatic ones.

You do need a good brain to solve challenges in SP games just as much as, but not more than, to defeat your opponents in DM.

The only exception is if you had about a dozen people in a map like Dead Simple. No strategies will work there. That's why I don't play deathmatch. I usually play Team Fortress (CustomTF), although not that often anymore.

myk said:
I don't see what kind of brain you need to be lead around by a storyline. To make it clear: being "immersed" in something doesn't require much intelligence, otherwise the smartest people in the world would be the most dogmatic ones.

You do need a good brain to solve challenges in SP games just as much as, but not more than, to defeat your opponents in DM.

What dsm means by using your brain, is using your imagination. Which multiplayer doesn’t require much of. IMO a good single player game is like a good book, you need a good imagination to fully appreciate it.

bigbadgangsta said:

Please find that quote for me :)

As you wish,my lord.

GameSpy: We've met a lot of mod makers here with plans for DOOM 3, and after John made his comments yesterday, regarding a 4-player limit and synchronous launching c they were a little freaked out. Should they be concerned?

Tim Willits: It's very early in the planning and development stages of multiplayer, but we know that it is going to be scaleable. If the mod guys and the level designers create areas that can hold more than four players c it'll happen. The core technology is not limited to four players.

from gamespy

Ct_red_pants said:

What dsm means by using your brain, is using your imagination.

Actually, it's the designer and not the player who is using his or her imagination in single player games. Only in multiplayer games (but not really in FPSs) does the player apply a certain level of free imagination, mainly by interacting with other people.

did someone say mp required less brainpower than SP...LMAO
mp games require the same, if not more brainpower...i strongly suggest u play a team oriented mp like RTCW and cs to see how people devise of strategies and skills to outdo their opponents, in fact ppl spend hours on ONE SINGLE MAP!!! i remember when i was doing de_dust with a clan, we had to use all our wits and brainpower to outmanuevour our opponents...
so please dont say something stupid like mp doesn;t is just mindless shooting because honestly u gotta be smart and cunning to outwit ur opponent...
and doom3 being a vintage ID game will have enormous replay value...i did not even finish half life(got bored as hell with that game)...in contrast, any ID game to come out i played over and over and over and over and over and over
for a change again and again and again
for a change over...and over....and over...

doomedout said:

did someone say mp required less brainpower than SP...LMAO
mp games require the same, if not more brainpower...i strongly suggest u play a team oriented mp like RTCW and cs to see how people devise of strategies and skills to outdo their opponents, in fact ppl spend hours on ONE SINGLE MAP!!! i remember when i was doing de_dust with a clan, we had to use all our wits and brainpower to outmanuevour our opponents...
so please dont say something stupid like mp doesn;t is just mindless shooting because honestly u gotta be smart and cunning to outwit ur opponent...

I said most of them are and I know what I'm talking about, because I have tried a few games in multiplayer. Quake 3 Arena is something that requires very little brain power (because if you DO try to use your brain and devise strategies, you'll end up being accussed of camping) - all it's about is dodging and aiming abilities and of course, quick reactions.
RtCW is an exception, which is also the reason why it's the only multiplayer game that I can fully enjoy.
Just to make one thing clear: Because a lot of mp games are "braindead" doesn't mean that they suck - I just prefer SP because it allows me to use my imagination. Playing Doom is a great way for me to get ideas for my fan fics, because there are so many things in their sp games that id leaves to the players' imagination. That's one thing which imho makes even the less gameplay innovative games from id better than just about any other shooter out there (so whenever I see people who claim the id suck at doing sp games, I instantly know what IQ level they have, more or less).

Doom 3 will be great - the shadow effects alone will create such an atmosphere, that it will suggest the wildest things to your imagination. You can use the shadows to hide (it seems), which allows for different ways to approach a level. The id guys have also said that they will allow the player with multiple options on how to deal with a problem: Attack a monster, or hide from it.
This spells HUGE replay factor people.

[edit]Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that team mp games are only fun if you play with the right people - too many people start to bitch and generally act like jerks if you are a little smarter than them. A lot of morons have bitched about camping in a game like RtCW, because they don't get the game. In sp there are no whiners, no morons, it's just YOU and your imagination.[/url]

MP is a sport match, SP is a great movie.

dsm said:

[edit]Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that team mp games are only fun if you play with the right people - too many people start to bitch and generally act like jerks if you are a little smarter than them. A lot of morons have bitched about camping in a game like RtCW, because they don't get the game. In sp there are no whiners, no morons, it's just YOU and your imagination.[/url]

U Forgot to add all the dumbshit AI u face in SP. I find it real hard to pit my almost god-like brain to retarded monsters that keep walking into walls.

So the most of you think it takes Brain power to play in SP, try facing against enemies that dont need waypoints and programming, that are just as cunning as you.

comparing SP with MP is like comparing apples with oranges.
these gametypes are too different to state that one stands above the other.
those games vary from the kind of maps up to the different pickup items one needs.

but one thing will surely come true: for you mp geek (incl. me) there will be a lot of mp-mods that satisfy you - because mp mods are faster to "finish/release" because the modders dont need to build a large no. of maps. a few maps with high playability are sufficent.
furthermore those maps dont have to be so detailed as sp maps, nearly no scripted events had to be thought of and theres no enemy placement. the last point often decides if a map makes fun or not.

=> doom3 WILL be replayable due to the many mods and custom maps.

just my thoughts.

myk said:
Actually, it's the designer and not the player who is using his or her imagination in single player games. Only in multiplayer games (but not really in FPSs) does the player apply a certain level of free imagination, mainly by interacting with other people.

Using you imagination to immerse yourself is what I meant. A good SP FPS will convince you that your actually there. Rarely in multiplayer games do you for get that you are sitting in your room in front of you computer. Like Freddie said, it like a sport.

Theif said:
So the most of you think it takes Brain power to play in SP, try facing against enemies that dont need waypoints and programming, that are just as cunning as you.

Oh yeah! I just LOVE playing when I’m ping out to buggery, with a sever full of dumbass lamers , cheating whores, and nazi maggots. I LOVE downloading 75mb Mods and patches just to get the fucking thing to work. I LOVE it when people repeat the same sentence over and over again for god only knows why, I just LOVE all the new and interesting ways that people work the words “gay” and “faggot” and “queer” into every phrase they can think of over and over and over and over and over and over and over.. you get the idea…

It’s a real challenge all right! It challenges my ability to repress my desire to go on a fucking shooting spree.

doomedout said:
i strongly suggest u play a team oriented mp like RTCW and cs to see how people devise of strategies and skills to outdo their opponents, in fact ppl spend hours on ONE SINGLE MAP!!!

And this is fun… How exactly? Like you could get any of those arseholes to work with you, People play CS more like team deathmatch rather then bothering with the objectives. Reason #561 why I don’t play CS online.

doomedout also said:
so please dont say something stupid like mp doesn;t is just mindless shooting because honestly u gotta be smart and cunning to outwit ur opponent...

Umm, it is mindless shooting. Like any sport, there is no real purpose. Sure you use tactics, There is no reason to get more frags, of capture the flag, or disarm the bomb except to get points. A good single player game should give you some sense of purpose. (doom and quake being one of the few exceptions).

I hate it when people skip the single player game, it make programmers think they don’t have to work as hard on single player game. And if, like me, you detest online gaming, you get very disappointed.

Endless 3rd party levels, for original doom and source ports are being made without delay, and played by lots of people, why not for Doom3?

[QUOTE]Ct_red_pants said:
[B]




Oh yeah! I just LOVE playing when I’m ping out to buggery, with a sever full of dumbass lamers , cheating whores, and nazi maggots. I LOVE downloading 75mb Mods and patches just to get the fucking thing to work. I LOVE it when people repeat the same sentence over and over again for god only knows why, I just LOVE all the new and interesting ways that people work the words “gay” and “faggot” and “queer” into every phrase they can think of over and over and over and over and over and over and over.. you get the idea…

Ture, i do agree with you on some of that, I hadn't played online for A long Long while until I got my cable modem, and now its like everyones got some shit to talk. but i dont even read a damn thing anyone in them retards have to say, I dont talk to any of them, I mean fuck'em. and if you dont have a good computer with some kinda high speed connection then Online gamming can be hell
but still I think you might be taking it alittle to seriously, i mean after all, its just a fucking game.

Are you the theif from warcraft3.com? If so your a fag, no one over there likes you either. I see it's a continuing trend.

Let's keep this thread clean people.

Fredrik said:

MP is a sport match, SP is a great movie.

Deathmatch, is that, yes. DOOM single player and cooperative is certainly not the latter. But I'll grant that most newer games are. And yes, DOOM III seems like it will be too.

Theif said:
Ture, i do agree with you on some of that, I hadn't played online for A long Long while until I got my cable modem, and now its like everyones got some shit to talk. but i dont even read a damn thing anyone in them retards have to say, I dont talk to any of them, I mean fuck'em. and if you dont have a good computer with some kinda high speed connection then Online gamming can be hell
but still I think you might be taking it alittle to seriously, i mean after all, its just a fucking game.

Well I play games for fun, and I don't have fun with online gamimg. So yeah, I do take my games a little too seriously, but eh.

I love LAN games though. but how often can I get one of those set up?

myk said:
Deathmatch, is that, yes. DOOM single player and cooperative is certainly not the latter. But I'll grant that most newer games are. And yes, DOOM III seems like it will be too.

Cooperative is different again, while it’s fun, it’s still not as immerseive as single player. And not many people play co-op theses days.

myk said:

Deathmatch, is that, yes. DOOM single player and cooperative is certainly not the latter. But I'll grant that most newer games are. And yes, DOOM III seems like it will be too.

The old Doom may not have the interactivity and impressive graphics of more modern fps games, but it is possibly better because it allows so much more room to use your imagination.

People forget that games are just toys, and that toys are just there to enhance your imagination. When my parents where kids, boys would use sticks and pretend that they were guns - and it was fun, when I was a kid, boys used toy guns - which further enhanced the believability of the game, but didn't make the game of playing war more fun.
A computer game is just a very advanced toy, that increasingly leaves less and less to the imagination. Good games are the ones that seem very believable, yet still leave room for imagination. As such, I find most later games less entertaining than Doom, because Doom has this perfect balance between believability and stuff that everyone with a bit of imagination can imagine in it.

I'm not disagreeing that modern games are more like movies than the old games, I'm merely pointing out that you again seem to miss the point of what a good sp game is all about.

Imho, people who don't touch the single player part of a game are a bunch of sorry bastards who never tried to use their imagination and I pretty much share red pant's sentiment that these people piss me off as they are directly responsible for games becoming more and more mp focused and with little or no emphasis on sp.

I have to tip my hat in respect to id - they're going back to what games really are all about, despite the fact that there are oh-so many people pathetic enough to not give a shit about single player games.

Yeah, I like imagining things too, but that's nore useful as the basis for the general (and not even the particular) design of a game or add-on, but playing is not like that. Are you going to sit there and "use your imagination" while an imp scrapes your ass off? Not me. I prefer single player when it's a challenge, as much a sport as deathmatch.

STOP WHININGGGGGGGGGGG ALLLLL and just wait for doom lol