Mapping Tips, Please Critique. V2

Hey everyone, 

I while ago I tried to make a map but because i'm bad at mapping it too was also, bad. I've tried again and even though it's quite short, I attempted to create a map with larger areas more suitable to the game play of Doom. I made it a little over a day so please excuse any broken textures as I don't possess any sort of aesthetic skill c: 

Any feedback will be happily accepted so please do be harsh as i'm trying to learn. 

Thanks.  

Beep.zip

Read this, then edit your OP accordingly:

Your map format requires ZDoom or higher as the sourceport to run it with.

Not too bad in terms of visuals for a first map, would recommend looking at other releases to see how people did things there to create a more believeable space.

Gameplay is pretty shallow. If all you use is hitscanners and imps, most likely you're not gonna end up with something that has a lot of variety to it, if put in layouts such as this.

The last huge room with all the former humans and imps wasn't very exciting to clear for lack of firepower and lack of threat. Huge spaces are more interesting if you use higher tier monsters like revenants, Mancubi, and Arachnotrons. Might as well put down some more weapons so that people have a larger arsenal to choose from.

Chaingun and shotgun only usually isn't too much fun, especially because these two weapons behave kinda similar in this map of yours because of its layout.

Large areas doesn't necessarily mean better gameplay. What makes gameplay interesting is how you work with the scope of the rooms and what manner of dynamic you create in doing so. Personally I like it better to design rooms for monsters, as opposed to designing a room to then add stuff later.

Thanks for the quick reply and the depth of the feedback, it is much appreciated. 

I'd like to design rooms around monsters but because of my limited knowledge and experience the most I can do is design the layout of the room and add monsters in an attempt to find a way to make it enjoyable.

I can now see that the level was quite stale after you mentioned it as it did only feature 2 easily accessible weapons and a repetitive line up of enemies.

I should have mentioned that this was designed to play like a fist mission with a mix of features that come with later levels such as large open spaces filled with enemies.

I do wish to refine the textures but because of my lack of experience and non-existent art ability I tend to stick with solid colours and repeating walls. (Eg. the whole level) 

I'm going to work on expanding this level and try to make it enjoyable as it is the best I have produced in the few months that I've used Doom Builder. I will continue to reply to this post if you'd like to assist in the creation of my first hopefully decent map. If not please do unsub from this post as it'll seem like spam c:

Thanks,

2 minutes ago, watto3699 said:

I should have mentioned that this was designed to play like a fist mission

Fist mission, or "tyson" as the speedrunning discipline is called, should (does not have to per se) also involve a berserk pack. Punching something to gibs usually is quite satisfying, even if not necessarily much of a challenge at times.

6 minutes ago, watto3699 said:

I'm going to work on expanding this level and try to make it enjoyable as it is the best I have produced in the few months that I've used Doom Builder.

Well, I might give some feedback eventually, but I would like to point out that at times starting with a "blank slate" is probably easier, and maybe more satisfying than gradually working on a single map for like a month or two whenever feedback comes rolling in. You might better off starting a new map to experiment with, and returning to this one later down the line when you have some more experience and fresh ideas of your own.

I think the last thing you should want is to end up in a position in which people tell you what they would like to see (because we all like different things), and you becoming their "mapping droid", if that makes any sense. Keep the map for now, or maybe do some simple touchups, but also try starting something new from scratch, it might help you a lot.

Thanks again for the quick reply, I'll try to find/create some varying suitable room designs for different monsters as well as taking advice on what to do with them to create an enjoyable experience for everyone who plays my maps and so that they also don't grow stale. 

Thanks again for the advice and i'll keep on trying to improve. 

A few things for you to consider if you plan on building gameplay around punching/sawing stuff:

-Ammo, or lack thereof, is key if you want for people to understand that they are supposed to get in close and personal.

-Choice of monsters: If people have to get in close, you need to make sure the entire thing does not become a dice-rolling hell. That said, if you make regular use of shotgunners, which can hit for a whopping 45% worth of damage, you gotta make sure people can recover from hits like these reasonably well, or keep the count of shotgunners within reason. Another way to mitigate some of the dice rolling is providing armour to smoothen out some of the damage spikes that may occur. Another thing to consider is that any enemy that has a gun also drops ammo, which might be yet another reason for you to keep their count a bit lower, unless of course weak "backup weapons" like the shotgun are something you design your map around. Furthermore, enemies that launch projectiles which can be dodged are interesting to have in tyson style maps, it makes the punching and sawing more skillbased than using primarily hitscanners which will hit at random no matter what the player does.

-Terrain is key, running from one mob to another in huge open areas while tanking bullets along the way is not the most interesting way of doing things. If you downsize the rooms, and maybe add some obstacles/cover, you may be able to create a more "tactical" environment for people to move around in. Just make sure moving around doesn't become too finicky for no reason.

-Encounter design: Try to think of scenarios in which players can benefit greatly from instigating infights between different monsters to give your gameplay something that isn't "only" dodging and punching, for example. Don't hesitate to also use bigger monsters in an appropriate environment that offers enough room to dodge without allowing players to turn the entire fight into a large enough circle strafe that it becomes trivial.

Not sure if anything else is worth pointing out for a start. I guess since you map for ZDoom based ports, you can technically punch everything quite easily, had you been mapping with vanilla/boom compatibility in mind, then there might have been a few monsters that you shouldn't expect most people to successfully take down in melee combat, because these ports work with different hitboxes for monsters. Punching anything in boom is significantly more difficult if the enemy is huge (Cacos, Cybies, Mancs, Arachnotrons).

So there you have it. A little (*ahem*) ramble that may or may not be useful. ;-)

11 hours ago, watto3699 said:

Hey everyone, 

I while ago I tried to make a map but because i'm bad at mapping it too was also, bad. I've tried again and even though it's quite short, I attempted to create a map with larger areas more suitable to the game play of Doom. I made it a little over a day so please excuse any broken textures as I don't possess any sort of aesthetic skill c: 

 

Any feedback will be happily accepted so please do be harsh as i'm trying to learn. 

Thanks.  

Beep.zip

@Nine Inch Heels 's comments were spot on with regard to your particular situation and I don't have much to add at the moment.

I will say, though, that you shouldn't be so harsh on yourself. No one starts off being "good" at mapping, so don't focus on apologizing for being "bad." You'll get better. Ultimately, you have the right attitude that you're trying to learn. Knowing what you don't know, being willing to learn, accepting feedback, and keeping at it will be your best friends as you work to improve.

Hey guys,

I've decided to make levels that focus around individual gameplay ideas in earlier missions. This one is a entryway mission so it's nothing difficult, It has a few secrets and is easily my most aesthetically pleasing map I've made myself. Like I said, it wasn't design to be difficult so i'm hoping if any of you can give me some advice on the pacing of the level and if the gameplay element (in this case deep water) was presented to the player in a way that slowly gets more "complex" for lack of a better word. I started using UDFM to make maps and has helped a great deal in the making of this map.

I've also got a couple of problems that I need help with in regards to the level itself, the first being an inability to make an edge, that is under water, trigger a secret. I tried playing around with it in doom builder but to no avail. The secret i'm referring to is behind a a mossy brick texture in the last room to the right of the bridge. Any suggestions to fix that would be much appreciated.

The second and last problem that I had whilst play testing was the fact that I couldn't get 100% kills even after I had made sure everything was dead. If any of you know how to fix this bug, advice would be much appreciated. 

Thanks a-lot 

-Watto

At this point I would recommend you to join the "Joy of mapping" discord. It's a place where you can get support for any sort of editing question/issue you may encounter.

As for the secret: If the idea is that players have to trigger something somewhere that opens up a secret elsewhere, you should first check if the tags you assigned aim from the respective linedef (trigger) at the correct sector (target) that is supposed to change, and then check if the actions you put in place are the correct ones (make sure the functionality is there). If you're using a script of sorts, then you'd probably need to paste it here so it can be looked into.

As for 100% kills: If what you do is teleporting monsters into the playable area, you need to make sure that every monster has the chance to "activate" (depends on the kind of teleport you use), check if the monsters can reach the teleport linedef (if you use these), make sure the target destination isn't occupied and that it is in the right spot, check the tags and if things don't work after all that, upload your map so it can be looked into.

Really though, check out the joy of mapping discord, it might help you lots.

Thanks for the reply, i'll be sure to join that discord.

Nice level of rather low difficulty. I think the Chaingunner at the beginning is facing the wrong direction; this could be intentional, though. Maybe a little to short but very good as a first level in a longer wad. I appreciate the chainsaw at the very beginning :)

Here's the video of my blind run through the level:

Thanks for the video reply! 
It's nice to see how people play through the level the first time and how they treat certain areas differently to how I'd imagine they'd be played.
I've got a new level iv'e just finished which in my opinion is much better than this one. It's much shorter but I feel as if it's a better first map than this one.
Sorry for the late reply and thanks again for the video.

MAP01.7z