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The Ultimate DooMer

Single vs. multiple routes

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I was wondering what DooMers prefer these days: single route maps (both linear and non-linear) or multiple route maps (ie. more than one route to a certain point, but you only go down one and not the others)

I know that single route is what DooM is all about really, as you get to see all of the level, and to kill everything. However, the map will have little replay value if you go down that same route everytime. (although making it possible to do things in a different order helps a bit)

Multiple routes have an advantage because they have different challenges in them, and it could affect the gameplay when the routes merge again, and also it has lots of replay value as you can go down a different route next time. However, you won't be able to play all of the map, which will annoy the 100%-ers among us.

(I remember E2M7 of Cleimos from a while back, and this had 3 different routes to the exit. I remember getting slightly annoyed about not getting to kill everything, and ended up cheating to get the other routes. The Cleimos 2 version of that map had you doing all 3 routes in any order, which I liked much better)

I was wondering what you all think about this, before I decide whether or not to experiment with multiple routes in the future (but not in my current project)

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Multiple routes are most important for DM play I think. For solo play, I always had the idea that I should try to see all of the map....if I don't, I usually won't find all supplies and get all kills. In that respect, large maps with multiple routes tend to confuse me and it's easy to miss part of the map.

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I don't think that sort (exemplified by the Cleimos map you mentioned) of "multiple choice" multi-routed maps really add replay value, at least not from my perspective, on the contrary, maybe. You could though, I suppose, create alternate ways of opening areas which may not be compatible with each other, but at least one should allow you to explore the whole map. This would be similar, but would not leave the map (literally) lame.

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myk said:

I don't think that sort (exemplified by the Cleimos map you mentioned) of "multiple choice" multi-routed maps really add replay value, at least not from my perspective, on the contrary, maybe.


Hmm, maybe that was not a good example to use. (but it's the only map of that kind that I know of)

I was thinking along the lines of old megadrive platformers, as they usually have one start point, a few different routes that sometimes cross each other, and one end point where all the routes meet.

(of course, if I tried it, the routes would be spread out in a DooM-like 3D way rather than stacked on top of each other in 2D fashion)

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I like a good multipath experience. if it isn't messed up. I have a mpa in the works for rubicon that is sort of a mix of the two. kind of chaped like a figure 8, you start in a room with 3 doors. one in the center is keyed, the ones on the right and left aren't. you pick one. one the way through a small corridor, a gate shuts behind you, forcing you to take that route. you take the rout, yeah yeah, and you get the blue key. if you turn back, you find that another gate fell down behind you when you nabbed the key, so you have to press onwards. you head through the next area, and get to the end. you open up a blue keyed gate and the a regular door. where you pop up.... in the start room. You came out the left door, after you went into the right one. and the blue center door cuts between the two paths to another chamber similar to the first, where you can do it all over again. If you has gone into the left door at first, you would come out on the right door, having gone through the right door area backwards.

This map isn't near done, but it's gonna be a doozy to manage. you can technically take 4 different routes through the whole level. cool, huh?

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Variety is the spice of life. It's just a stylistic choice. Neither is superior to the other. A good map is just that: A good map. Whether it's linear or non-linear has nothing to do with quality.

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Fredrik, Maonth, stphrz, did you guys read what he's reflecting upon? He says not just multiple routes like some maps have, but routes that if you choose them, you cannot choose the others. Kind of like a "choose your own adventure" book. At least in the 1st post, the other one being vague on this matter but still saying "sometimes meet": this may encompass what I said above but also the 1st example.

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non-linear levels are always the best, espcially if you want to make it scary and replayable, with linear levels you only play it once and then its done

as for actual Multiple leves, thats just stupid, why not combine them into one? Other wise youll just reload and play the next route

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I agree on giving the illusion of multiple paths. Creating useless corridors and them joining them to the main route via windows can help with this.

Also, you can create two routes to the same area, but you have to acheive goals along both of these routes in order to continue further. I've used this one in my latest map.

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I like non-linear, single-route maps. I just don't like missing any parts of a map, especially if that map is good. However, I like being able to go all over the place, even if it's not necessary towards completing the level. Most of my maps so far have been somewhat non-linear.

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I made a thread like this not long ago in defence of linear maps, which a lot of people were slating at the time.

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Funny you should mention multiple routes for gameplay. I'm eagerly awating skulltags new scripting, i forget whats its called. Maybe EDC or something (environment definition script?) But basted on what i was hearing about it when skulltag was all the rage was it would allow the maps to change over time (example, doors wouldn't open at certin times making the map all the more fun to play. A good example of what i'm talking about can be seen in super smash brothers melee where your environments change as you battle) I donno if this feature was droped or not but it would twist gameplay to a whole new level. I donno, i think this is relevent somehow to the topic somehow...

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For normal maps, non-linearity all the way. Let the player himself decide which way to take. But, if you're talking about a situation where the player by choosing one route can never explore other routes in the same game: no, because then you're still playing that level in a linear fashion. Most people (apart from those pesky speedrunners, heh) like to explore a level to its fullest... blocking access to big parts of a level (and especially if people KNOW they are being blocked) is annoying.

Non-linear maps are all about NOT forcing a player to take and follow one particular path.

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I have nothing against linearity but maybe the non-linear maps are still the best. But so that you will have to go through all the routes(not the secrets of course). Btw, I hate those maps where you HAVE to go to a secret to complete the map.

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The only exception to that rule is if that map is part of a hub, and only later will those other sections be free to explore.

But yes, having a single big, nonlinear map with half of it blocked off is not only irritating, especially to the perfectionists who like to kill everything, find everything, and get everything, but it tends to defeat the purpose of making such a large map.

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UD: I find your terminology a little odd, but I prefer what you call non-linear single-route maps; i.e. you can (and maybe need) to visit all parts of the map, but can do so in many different orders, all with their pros and cons. And maybe some parts of the map do get sealed off from you, but not permanently (or at least not before you have visited them).

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In the maps i'm making, i'm concentrating on making it so that you have to visit some areas several times (the hub idea)Some of the future destinations are visible beforehand. Another idea i'm working with is that you don't necessarily have to go to all of the areas, but if you don't, you'll most likely be chewed by something.

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Mordeth said:

For normal maps, non-linearity all the way. Let the player himself decide which way to take. But, if you're talking about a situation where the player by choosing one route can never explore other routes in the same game: no, because then you're still playing that level in a linear fashion. Most people (apart from those pesky speedrunners, heh) like to explore a level to its fullest... blocking access to big parts of a level (and especially if people KNOW they are being blocked) is annoying.

Non-linear maps are all about NOT forcing a player to take and follow one particular path.


I think you're right. I was thinking along the lines of games like Sonic, where there are several routes through each level, but you can go along one route, and then you could sometimes go back along others if you wanted to. In the end, you will miss some of the level out, but how much depends on what you decide to do. (and which level it is)

Having read everyone's comments, I think the usual non-linear approach is the best. (I've already drawn the first few maps in that fashion) If there's any more comments of course, I'll take those on board, too.

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Well, I am going for multiple routs in my latest project "Elidor"

players can finish the game in several ways:

1-Kill Alien Boss.
2-Kill Hell Boss.
3-Block their both ways to our world and make it safe for now.
4-More to come.

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When it comes to doom I hate not getting 100% kills on the maps. To the point where I will get to the exit and save. Just so that if I don't get 100% kills, I will go back and try to figure out how to slaughter anything that I missed. Even if all I have is a pistol with 400 hundred rounds and the only thing left is a cyber-baby (my name for a cyber-demon). I'll go take the basted down or die trying.

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