dew Posted January 19, 2018 16 hours ago, 40oz said: The gut reaction to adversity is that the person is intentionally trying to fuck shit up. I trust that nobody here brings on a disagreement with the intention of hurting that person personally. Well... except for dew. [Don't post private messages to public forums - Lüt] I really struggle with the mixed messages in this relationship. 8 Share this post Link to post
leodoom85 Posted January 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Eris Falling said: Actually I'm reminded of a thread a few years back, I think geo made it and it was something "Cats or Dogs and why," and he made it to demonstrate that anything discussed on this forum would end up in some tangential argument, and it bloody did too. Looks like history really likes to repeat itself...... Well, nothing that we can do about it anyway. 0 Share this post Link to post
Arctangent Posted January 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Eris Falling said: Actually I'm reminded of a thread a few years back, I think geo made it and it was something "Cats or Dogs and why," and he made it to demonstrate that anything discussed on this forum would end up in some tangential argument, and it bloody did too. You say this as if there isn't a lot of harmful misinformation that's spread about cats and dogs and their owners, and that that isn't used to justify terrible things towards them. Especially cats - there's a lot of cruelty that's done towards them just because people expect them to act like dogs and end up thinking they're hateful creatures. Really, does this show that Doomworld will explode at anything, or does it show that you and geo don't quite grasp how deep some rabbitholes go? 0 Share this post Link to post
Tristan Posted January 19, 2018 Are you for real? It's a simple damn question about preference. 5 Share this post Link to post
Not Jabba Posted January 19, 2018 4 hours ago, 40oz said: OP First of all, I've seen you post a fair number of Big Issue That We Should Solve as a Community type threads in this forum, and unfortunately the common thread, and the thing that annoys a lot of people about them, is that it is always super unclear where you're coming from and where you're trying to go. The OPs are always both long and extremely vague about what events led you to make the post, what specifically you think people have done wrong, and what you feel that they should do differently. One almost gets the impression that you don't want to draw attention to the context. Personally, I think it's just your writing style, because you're as likely to make those types of vague posts about mapping as you are about social issues on the forum. Ok, fine. Vagueness is not a mortal sin. I bring it up because under everything else, you seem to actually want some clear feedback about your interactions with other people. The context of your post is that a couple of threads blew up over a discussion about racism, which no matter how you slice it is a serious issue. If you don't think racism is a serious issue, then you can keep reading this post or not, but for my part I'm not interested in having a discussion with you, especially not about racism. You seem to question whether the blowup was warranted, because there are merely potential undertones and connotations that relate in a complicated way to the actual history of the meme's creation, rather than it being *overtly the most terribly racist thing ever*. I would say that it doesn't matter; racism works through undertones and connotations. It doesn't make sense to get angry at people for calling out those undertones out of some largely unknowable original context; just deal with it. If people in Uganda do not find the meme racist, then let them spread it in Uganda. And yes, I know the thread that got locked today was full of shitposts, and yes, the thread before it was no doubt full of shitposts as well; and yes, I'm sure dew participated. And so did you. The thing is, you can't pretend that people are approaching you without context and don't understand the assumptions behind what you're saying; you have been a prominent member of this community for a very long time. You have made and condoned racist comments, you've made sexist comments, you've made anti-transgender comments, and so on -- to some extent on this forum, but more overtly and frequently on your own forum where you know you can get away with it. When people read a post like the one that started this thread, they know where you are coming from, and that's why they immediately start trash-talking you instead of participating in whatever debate you intend to start. I believe you when you say that it's not your intention to fuck shit up, but maybe if you don't want to, you should start listening to what people have to say, whether they see fit to say it nicely or not. 17 Share this post Link to post
GuyMcBrofist Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) And the descent begins. EDIT: Oh! Wait! @Not Jabba may be getting us back on track! 0 Share this post Link to post
Arctangent Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eris Falling said: Are you for real? It's a simple damn question about preference. Yes, I am very much for real, because it's trivial to imagine someone going "i like dogs because cats are terrible because one scratched me lightly once and the world would be better off without them!!!" and then causing the topic to split into stuff like properly interacting with cats, how dogs are just as bad, how so-and-so just didn't treat the dog right, some random guy bringing up inhumane training methods for dogs and presenting anything else as wrong, everyone but one guy turning on that guy, etc. etc. etc. It really isn't all that hard to follow the train of thought when stuff like that happens, y'know. It really just requires not having the ego to think that everyone else is an idiot. 1 Share this post Link to post
GuyMcBrofist Posted January 19, 2018 @Arctangent I think the only thing you have demonstrated, is that you are an animal person. Because that came way out of left field. 2 Share this post Link to post
[McD] James Posted January 19, 2018 I like people, but I like animals more. Especially cats. 5 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted January 19, 2018 Honestly I think that meme and any other fucking meme in existence is fucking garbage, but whatever, if someone wanted to make a project based off a meme, let them do so for crying out loud. If you don't like it, don't read it, don't pay attention to it, don't think about it, don't make up arguments about it, don't...well... Um... Was that what was going on before? 1 Share this post Link to post
leodoom85 Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said: Honestly I think that meme and any other fucking meme in existence is fucking garbage, but whatever, if someone wanted to make a project based off a meme, let them do so for crying out loud. If you don't like it, don't read it, don't pay attention to it, don't think about it, don't make up arguments about it, don't...well... Um... Was that what was going on before? Well... sadly, meme-based mods gets a LOT of attention, especially in a well known game such as Doom *shrug* Best that we can do is just to ignore it. 0 Share this post Link to post
Arctangent Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, GuyMcBrofist said: @Arctangent I think the only thing you have demonstrated, is that you are an animal person. Because that came way out of left field. Y'know, you and Eris make me think that a not-insignificant amount of people who have posted or been mentioned in this topic read forum topics as a web of replies branching out of the OP. Thing is, that's really not how they work at all. They're a list of chronological responses that are typically only aimed at the OP at the beginning and then start aiming at the previously most recent replies. See, what just happened was a good example: Eris brought up an example of how a "Cats vs Dogs" topic got heated, I pointed out that there was quite a bit of reason for such a topic to get heated, he responded in disbelief, I gave an example of how it could work, and you took this all as an off-topic thing despite flowing naturally from his initial response to the OP. And to add to that, Ajora made a comment also related to this reply string thingy. That is how topics go deeper than "just a question of preference." People bring up a fact or opinion that is plainly wrong or harmful, people reply to that, and people reply to the replies. I've seen some forums do the damndest to try and cut off these reply string thingies as soon as they start, but it always seems to me like they don't really get how forum topics just naturally flow. Topics rarely stay exactly on-topic - the only responses that are truly "off-topic" as most people mean it are those that don't really stem from another response. 0 Share this post Link to post
GuyMcBrofist Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Arctangent said: you took this all as an off-topic thing despite flowing naturally from his initial response to the OP. Yes, you are right. It felt to me as though you had found a reason to bring up animal abuse. My reply was a bit rushed. This discussion is turning out to be quite fruitful, I think. Edited January 20, 2018 by GuyMcBrofist 0 Share this post Link to post
Xaser Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arctangent said: You say this as if there isn't a lot of harmful misinformation that's spread about cats and dogs and their owners, and that that isn't used to justify terrible things towards them. Especially cats - there's a lot of cruelty that's done towards them just because people expect them to act like dogs and end up thinking they're hateful creatures. Since this thread is vaguely about meta-critique: posts like these would be much better received without the "you say this as if..." bit. This topic (cats & dogs & abuse) isn't one that people discuss here on a regular basis, nor is it something a random person on a Doom board should be expected to know. If the post's purpose (as later stated) is indeed to correct a misconception, it would come across better if the first sentence were to carry a factual, non-confrontational tone, such as: Quote There's a lot of harmful misinformation that's spread about cats and dogs and their owners, which is often used to justify terrible things towards them. This sort of thing happens a lot, which is really unfortunate because it causes a lot of otherwise great points to get buried. 1 Share this post Link to post
Arctangent Posted January 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Xaser said: non-confrontational I mean, I'm trying to be confrontational because that sort of dismissal of something with serious implications really drives me up the wall. It just doesn't really sit well with me when people say or imply others are being melodramatic when they're actually talking things with real-life effects. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bauul Posted January 20, 2018 For the record, I like cats and dogs equally. 5 Share this post Link to post
Xaser Posted January 20, 2018 People dismiss things by default if they don't know anything about the topic. If the issue is indeed serious, it's self-defeating in such circumstances to squander the chance to inform them about it -- or at least try to; it's up to them to accept it. A confrontational tone only drives the wedge deeper. 2 Share this post Link to post
40oz Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, dew said: I really struggle with the mixed messages in this relationship. I wrote that two years ago. I didn't know you were still bothered by that. Obviously, i dont feel very good about it now, but it probably felt necessary at the time and I'm sorry. Youve never mentioned it to me before. I didn't document any blackmail of my own to use against you for a moment like this, but I'm sorry I said that. A lot of stuff happens in two years. I dont think of you as the same person you were two years ago. Even though you give me every reason to, I don't think you really believe it either. Congrats on the likes though. 0 Share this post Link to post
dew Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, 40oz said: I didn't document any blackmail of my own to use against you for a moment like this, but I'm sorry I said that. ... Congrats on the likes though. I'm stunned by the sincerety of your heartfelt apology, Mr. Let's Be Nice To Each Other I Mean It Guys. 6 Share this post Link to post
Harvey Posted January 20, 2018 Doom is great. With the wad I recently acquired that indicates damage done above enemies, I'm enjoying it in a whole new way. Am I participating in this discussion correctly? 4 Share this post Link to post
Nine Inch Heels Posted January 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Harvey said: Doom is great. With the wad I recently acquired that indicates damage done above enemies, I'm enjoying it in a whole new way. Am I participating in this discussion correctly? Your comment would be better placed in a threat in Doom General. "Everything else" is literally supposed to be anything that isn't doom. 0 Share this post Link to post
EmotionalFelineinaMadstate Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago 20 posts on this thread later 50 posts Oh boy. 2 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) Allow me to bring a rational perspective to this thread: 3 hours ago, NuMetalManiak said: I uh, I wish I was on the knowledge-level of everyone here. How do people get so smart on this forum? Don't fool yourself - We're all very, very stupid here, we've just learned to dress our long, bullshit rants up in fancy sounding language. @40oz and @dew, get a fucking room please, the whole world doesn't need to hear your pillow talk. 11 Share this post Link to post
savagegrant Posted January 20, 2018 I thought this was going to be a thread about gobby but was sorely disappointed! ;P 0 Share this post Link to post
bonnie Posted January 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said: Not that Memfis is wrong with what he says, but if you're saying shit like "racism is subject to the eye of the beholer", then I don't care if you're smiling at me, giving me presents while kissing my feet, or calling me goddess... You're wrong regardless. Don't believe me? Put "racism" and "definition" in your search bar and see what comes out. So easy, even a 6 year old can do that, my son just tried and it worked perfectly fine... He's 6 by the way. Hello!!! Since you ignored my response to the first time you tried making that argument, I wanted to copy/paste it here for you to see again (with some extra words for flow). Quote bonnie said: Except surprise!! People have different ideas [of] prejudice and discrimination. There are (non-white) people who genuinely believe that not segregating based on race is racist. So yeah, [I guess] racism [really] IS in the eye of the beholder and boy did this thread derail frickin fast. Gosh I love being involved in things. c: 0 Share this post Link to post
[McD] James Posted January 20, 2018 I know a lot of people think that cats are self-absorbed and standoffish, but that just isn't true. From my experiences, they're every bit as compassionate and loyal as dogs are. 2 Share this post Link to post
CARRiON Posted January 20, 2018 Nice clickbait m8. I was expecting a good ol' people suck fuck everything thread/rant. Instead I got "wait haha no they dont stop hating me lets be fwiends" and I feel so cheated. Also cats are alright but dogs are better fight me. 1 Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted January 20, 2018 You know, reading this thread I actually miss the days when the Doom forums were just a young man's club of people randomly having flamewars and posting image macros to STFU, whilst occassionally getting really excited about Doom. Rather than inter-forum rivalries, flamewars over whether chaingun sniping is a legitimate strategy or "fun" community drama like the events that inspired dwforums WADs, we now get threads hoping that we can all talk to eachother like human beings. Evidently, we can't, because we instead get massive tangents bought about by somebody who seems to think that grandstanding to a Doom forum about cat welfare is the right thing to do and actually deliberately posts aggressively because... Fuck knows. Back in the day I'm fairly certain writing deliberately antagonistic posts was trolling and would be met with derision, troll alerts and dog-piling (plus that one knob who legitimately bit). These days it just seems to be how we do. It seems like as we've gotten older and tried to be more mature, inclusive and expansive as a community, what we've actually done is stopped having fun. I'm a bitter 20-something now, but there's not an awful lot I look back to my teens for longingly. The community of back then is one I'd go back to, though. After all, is pointlessly confronting Doom enthusiasts about whatever is currently on your mind (or being discussed, even) any more mature than just posting a picture telling somebody to shut the fuck up? Just because you've used more words, it doesn't mean that we're reading it any differently. 5 Share this post Link to post