Assault Rifle

It's not an assault rifle, it's a sub-machine gun. I know most of you disagree with me, but I just saw a "leaked" screenshot which confirms this. It looks very much like a P-90, if anyone knows what that looks like. If your interested in taking the arguement further (to the point where you need to see the shot) I'll be on IRC, but I won't post it here due to obvious reasons.

Just because it looks like the P90, does that mean that it is a submachinegun? I saw that screenshot too. I thought the rifle looked smooth and futuristic, but I think it'd be pretty big for a submachinegun, don't you think?

**** little spoiler inside ****

indeed it looks like the p90 smg and it seems it uses coatless projectiles (dunno if the p90 uses such ammo as well). also the reloading matches the p90.
btw 60 bullets per magazine seems right now to high for d3. but i am sure they'll tweak that right.

check out the real p90:
http://www.fnmfg.com/products/p90/p90.htm

**** end of spoiler (eos) ****

Disorder said:

Just because it looks like the P90, does that mean that it is a submachinegun?

Uh, yes...

<SPOILER>

It looks like it has 3 barrels..?

</SPOILER>

gatewatcher said:

Uh, yes...

Your argument isn't really convincing me till this point.

Disorder said:

<SPOILER>

It looks like it has 3 barrels..?

</SPOILER>

3 barrels? where the hell you have seen 3 barrels?

I'll send you a message. Hold on a minute.
Let me know if those are 3 barrels..

That P90 Submachinegun lucks really ugly. And I don´t think the machinegun in Doom3 looks like this, but it´s hard to tell from the first person view.

One thing is confusing me: the ammo display on the gun obviously shows both your currently loaded ammo and your total ammo count, but how can the gun "know" how much ammo clips you have in your pocket? :)

(BTW, I´m only talking about screenshots from the E3 demo, I don´t want to download it myself).

Disorder said:

<SPOILER>

It looks like it has 3 barrels..?

</SPOILER>
Your argument isn't really convincing me till this point.

.
That wasn't an arguement. You basicaly told me that just because it looks like the P90, it doesn't mean that it is a sub-machine gun, when infact if it looks like the P90 it has to be a sub-machine gun because that's what a P-90 is.

Look at the size of Doomguy's hands on the gun. It's all relative to the actual size of a man's hand and a P-90. =)

Tetzlaff said:

One thing is confusing me: the ammo display on the gun obviously shows both your currently loaded ammo and your total ammo count, but how can the gun "know" how much ammo clips you have in your pocket? :)

(BTW, I´m only talking about screenshots from the E3 demo, I don´t want to download it myself).

yep. its very confusing. how does the smg knows how much ammo you have? besides that this type of ammo is shared with the pistol, too.
advanced human-weapon communiications, ya know? or is it just a weapon straight out of hell? ;-)

When I first saw the ammo display on the gun, I thought it has an attached grenade launcher, so that the display counts grenades and bullets...

The only difference between an assault rifle and a subachine gun is the type of bullets it fires. If it fires pistol ammo its a submachine gun if it fires rifle ammo its a carbine and falls into the assault rifle catagory. Example:

This is a colt 9mm submachine gun:


This is a colt carbine:


Both from: http://www.colt.com/colt/html/a2f_lawenforcement.html#submachinegun

They are the same in every way other than caliber. Its caliber not size or shape that determines wether or not that a gun goes into the either the smg or ar catagories. The FN P90 is a submachine gun because its maker also developed a pistol that fired the same ammo thus by definition it was forced into that catagory. If they had not developed the five-seven pistol it would have fallen into the carbine catagory.

I regard it as an smg, but I think it's too damn large (I saw it in the leaked video). They shoulda made it smaller - submachineguns that are large look ridiculous and no, they do NOT look cool, they just look oversized.

If that thing was an assault rifle then I gotta say: Man, that's the most ridiculously designed assault rifle I have ever seen. Assault rifles are supposed to be streamlined (1. so that you can better whack your enemies with it if you get close enough), not short and bulky.

Xzyl displaying pics of colt smg and carbine

None of those two guns are assault rifles. A carbine is like a short assault rifle - which in this case can be converted to an smg - but it's certainly not an assault rifle. Assault rifles have a longer barrel (to propel the projectile further, giving it a longer range)

uniQ said:

yep. its very confusing. how does the smg knows how much ammo you have? besides that this type of ammo is shared with the pistol, too.
advanced human-weapon communiications, ya know? or is it just a weapon straight out of hell? ;-)

Maybe, or maybe it's just a technical goof. We have to keep in mind that this is the year 2145 we're talking about. Lot's of things have changed by then, including weaponry-systems.

Disorder said:

We have to keep in mind that this is the year 2145 we're talking about. Lot's of things have changed by then, including weaponry-systems.

If deadnail would be still here in this forum, he would now start to rave about future weaponry systems and case-less ammo and such :)

ITS A P90, a P90 smg has 50 clips, so does this gun, the first thing i noticed bout the weapons is this, that the rifle is really a submachine gun, and the p90 holds exactly like the doomguy holds it, and the leaked video and screenshots confirm this.

So, is everybody happy with the rifle/gun?
Well, DSM is not. I think it looks cool, but it is a little bulky.
Some other thing I have to get used to is:

<SPOILER>
The gun has 3 barrels.
Don't believe me? Send me, or Uniq a private message.
</SPOILER>

I've been playing the leaked alpha again and I must say that from a first person perspective, the gun looks a lot smaller. It looks like a submachine gun, while in small cinematics it looks bigger. I thought I wasn't gonna like that gun, but it turns out to be just fine in my opinion. It fits the year 2145.

What the FUCK?

So, just because it looks like a P90, it's a sub-machinegun. Congratulations, gatewatcher - you're the biggest dumb-ass on this board. I'd ban you in ten seconds if I was a mod.

The P90 does NOT use caseless ammo, and this weapon loads really nothing like the P90. In fact, it's more like the H&K G11. Aside from that, it's way too large for a submachinegun, and as far as looking like a P90, the P90 doesn't have that foregrip that this weapon has.

Let me go over what Xzyl said, because he knows what he's talking about. The pistol and the assault rifle do not share ammo. This means that the assault rifle is most likely not firing pistol rounds. Thus it is not a sub-machinegun. The only difference between a submachinegun and an assault rifle is the fact that SMGs fire pistol rounds.

dsm, you don't know what you're talking about. A carbine is not a class of weapon in the same sense that "Assault Rifle" or "Submachinegun" is. Most "Assault Rifles" are in fact carbine versions of battle rifles.

For example, look at the Colt family of rifles. The M16 is a battle rifle. Battle rifles fire rifle ammo, have long ranges, long barrels, usually decent-sized magazines, and are generally intended for use by soldiers. Assault rifles like the M4 Carbine (note carbine designation - the M4 is a shortened M16) are shorter, smaller, and lighter than battle rifles, and they are intended for use in close quarters. Nowhere in my tactical training handbook does it talk about smacking someone with your gun - that's stupid, you can be much more precise with a hand-to-hand strike, and the people who are likely to be using assault rifles (as opposed to battle rifles) know what they're doing in hand-to-hand combat. You NEVER strike someone with the ass-end of your gun in combat. That takes the business end of the gun away from them and closer to you.

You people who are saying it's a P90 or like a P90 are retarded. Look at some better pictures of the gun - and oh, by the way - it has a 60-shot clip, doomedout. But of course, you're gatewatcher's lover, so you would follow him to your grave, neh?

Katarhyne said:

What the FUCK?

So, just because it looks like a P90, it's a sub-machinegun. Congratulations, gatewatcher - you're the biggest dumb-ass on this board. I'd ban you in ten seconds if I was a mod.

Just because he has a different point of view and isn't a weapons specialist like yourself isn't reason enough to call him dumbass, how fucking DARE you to act like some smartass! >:-[

Oh yeah, and I can see that there's a REALLY good reason not to make you a Mod, because you'd end up banning everyone who is just a little bit ignorant. Well, here's a warning to you: Stop acting like a damn bitch - if I see you insult people like that just because they're a little ignorant I'll just kill your posts, is that clear? Or do I need to spell it out for ya?

True, a carbine is not a class of a weapon like an assault rifle and an smg, but I'm still 100% sure that a carbine has a lesser range than an assault rifle, because its barrel is shorter - and afaik, a longer barrel serves to increase the range of the weapon.

Bah, I'll leave this discussion, but I'll be sure to watch if people behave - that means you Kat.

As far as guns go, I really only care for them to feel & look good in-game :)

Who cares what they call it? It's great! >:)

agreed with fredrik here.

in the game it's known as 'weapon_machinegun'. But who gives a crap? Call it what you want.

Heh, by definition then, DOOM's chaingun is a submachinegun.

it has 50 clips deary, u obviously have been misinformed but i am only assuming its p90 i cannot be entirely sure. and btw gatewatcher is the one person here who loaths me and perhaps the id here is one of irony rather than anything else, i dont know who put gatewatchers lover here.

Fredrik said:
As far as guns go, I really only care for them to feel & look good in-game :)

Exactly! Who cares what kind of real weapon it looks like? It really don't help our image as a bunch of gun crazy psychopaths dose it?

The P90 a select-fire bullpup weapon with a 50-round horizontal magazine on top of the receiver and an extremely accurate, lightweight (19 ounce). With an overall length of just 19.7 inches (.50.0 cm), the P90 is considerably shorter than the 9x19m H&K MP5 submachine gun or the 5.56x45mm Colt M4 carbine. The P90 weighs 5.9 pound (2.5 kg) with an empty magazine and 6.6 pounds (3.0 kg) with a fully loaded 50-round magazine, which is similar to the weight of an MP5 with a 30-round magazine. The P90 is st 8.25 inches (21.0 cm) high with a magazine fitted to the weapon

-source Fn manufacturing.
Just so you know. YOu made urself look very, very, very stupid dear.
The P90 fits perfecty with that description and it carries a 50 round mag, not 60. And yes the doomdude carries a p90.

Ok, has anyone thought that the ammo counter on the right side is just the full amount of bullets that can be in that gun? like the full amount of bullets you can hold? Anyone getting me here?

A P90!? Damn, I was hoping the assault rifle would be designed around the lines of Israel's "TAVOR M-21" or the "MORITA"(short version) of the movie StarShip Troopers!!

for a visual go to securityarms.com and type down either of the names on the find bar.