Andy Olivera Mapset Project [-complevel 9]

Thought I would share this, just to show that I haven't been slacking off. In saying this, I have a whole lot of work ahead. Good thing there's still two-and-a-half months for the deadline, heh.

My working title for this level is 'Fight or Flight'. Anyway, continuing on.

Looking very fantastic! Looking forward to playing this.

Righto! Today I present my "finished" map for this project:

Introducing Castle Ruins!!

Screenshots can be found in an earlier post in this thread

Map Title: Castle Ruins

Music: Horizon

Difficulty: Hard to Very Hard.

IWAD: Doom 2

PWAD: Returns Resource

Compatibility: BOOM (comp-level 9)

Testing: Tested in Zdoom 2.8, PRBOOM+ 2.5.1.4, Doom 2 1.9 exe. Please do not use free-look, jumping etc.

Map: Map 01 (Until this is finished and sorted out by Rdwpa).

Co-op: Yes, added as of v1.4. (BUT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED)

Deathmatch: No (Don't plan to change this, would not work anyway).

Monster Count: 472

Co-op Monster Count: 535

Secret Count: 7

Download: Castle Ruins v1.6.zip

So to anyone that wants to test, edit/tweak please be my guest. I've spent the last week or so playtesting and doing minor tweaks.

Some people may feel this has been rushed but I can assure you that I took my time with this and the reason I've completed it so quick is because this was the result I was going for. As far as a novice mapper making this goes I reckon I actually done pretty well.

Please let me know of anything I can do better as this project is not gonna be finished for another 2 odd months, plenty of time to tweak things.

This was a lot of fun, great work! Two minor things;
 

- Maybe enable 'Upper Unpegged' on walls where doors open. It looks a bit odd seeing them 'slide' along with the door animation.

- Just a nitpick, but maybe merge the two secrets south of the red key into one?

Keep up the good work, Bob. :)

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 5:20 AM, Bob9001 said:

Looking very fantastic! Looking forward to playing this.

I have no idea how long it will take, but I will try to make it as fun and playable as possible.

12 minutes ago, TheV1perK1ller said:

This was a lot of fun, great work! Two minor things;
 

- Maybe enable 'Upper Unpegged' on walls where doors open. It looks a bit odd seeing them 'slide' along with the door animation.

- Just a nitpick, but maybe merge the two secrets south of the red key into one?

 

Keep up the good work, Bob. :)

Ah, I might need some help with what you mean? Especially with the Upper Unpegged, I don't know where to apply that to in relation to a door.

I'm glad I actually could replicate the experience that I enjoyed while playtesting. I'll go and play around with the upper unpegging, cheers for the feedback!

Hopefully for a seasoned veteran like yourself it wasn't too hard! :P

Wait... it's Boom format though. You shouldn't test this on Doom 2 1.9, I supposed? Will play it later today.

It seems I'm stuck in the courtyard next to the Yellow Keycard. I noticed those 2 switches on the top, but I randomly activated those lifts on the side twice, but can't find where the actual trigger is. I did use IDCLIP to look around and found out those are for secrets, so I don't know how to lower the Yellow Keycard. Also, I noticed some dots around the pillars next to the Yellow Keycard, so probably I need some hint.

16 hours ago, Bob9001 said:

Download: Castleruins.zip

 

So to anyone that wants to test, edit/tweak please be my guest. I've spent the last week or so playtesting and doing minor tweaks.

Some people may feel this has been rushed but I can assure you that I took my time with this and the reason I've completed it so quick is because this was the result I was going for. As far as a novice mapper making this goes I reckon I actually done pretty well.

 

Please let me know of anything I can do better as this project is not gonna be finished for another 2 odd months, plenty of time to tweak things.

Cool. If I had to pick favorite parts, I'd go with the entire area behind the red key door, and the last fight.

Some general comments:
 

- The courtyard is full of high turreted monsters, which normally can tedious to clean up, largely because they can be hard to hit with rockets. But I think it works here, because movement of the typically 'elusive' monsters (revs) is restricted thanks to the trees, and most of the mid-tiers have wider hitboxes (mancs, trons) or are slow (HKs).  

- About the courtyard, there's a lot worth taking about here. The two lifts on the side could afford to be easier to comprehend (slightly more obvious trigger location + possibly a different texture to indicate that it's a lift), since hitting the switch on the left appears is mandatory for progression. I think it's possible to do that while maintaining the puzzly aspect of it. Generally speaking this area plays fine -- lots of health and cover to subsidize a more aggressive approach if the player is going for that, an also a campy approach can work too. The secret PI also allows some immunity from the hitscanners at the cost of requiring trickier, but not necessarily tough, managing of the more erratic projectiles. 

- It's possible to bump the yellow key after hitting only three switches, meaning you don't have to trigger the fight. Even with four switches, you can inch up to it and grab it without crossing the linedefs. I mostly don't think the YK fight works all that well as currently staged, because it can be threshold camped, by retreating either to the courtyard or the start area. 

- Heading to the area behind the YK door, I think the hallway ambushes aren't bad in principle but they'd probably be better off a bit more varied, which they can do while still maintaining the 'chaingunner cubby' theme. For example, one trigger could release freely roaming cubby chaingunners both in front of and behind the player. Headed to the main room, there are a lot of meaty monsters behind the 64-wide openings that can be very safely camped. An aggressive max run won't bother with that, but if you want to optimize for casual play, the opening can afford to be a lot wider (128 units at the least) or the monsters initially roaming that clump up in the doorways can be released when the player is in the room. The ambush triggered when the RK is made accessible was enjoyable. 

- Minor note about secrets: four of the secrets are simple pushwalls with the same texture. That repetition means these secrets are unlikely to be missed. Also, the water canal secret should ideally be one secret, rather than two.

- The big area behind the red key door: this area is really fun. Run 'n' gun gameplay with a decently complex floorplan, a wide assortment of monsters occupying different roles, and lots of individual fights that can be combined together. I can't find any fault with this part, really. Secrets here allow pretty reckless play, which was fun. 

- The library section behind the blue key door: it's probably best to stick near the back and hose down monsters as they try to squeeze through the 64-wide opening, mostly because the cacodemons roaming around can hover high above the bookshelves out of sight and block you with infinite height. I'd suggest removing those, possibly compensating with slightly harsher ground-based opposition. It's a bit odd that the mega is marked secret, since it's almost impossible not to spot. The BFG/'zerk being a secret would be more fitting (although not necessary).

- The penultimate area -- I'd say it's fine, but there's something about it that feels a bit fillery to me, like a stopgap en route to the last area. Part of that is that it doesn't have much of a core combat identity (beyond the initial chaingunners/HKs), which most of the other areas seem to try to have; and another part is that it's a reasonably sized part of map that already has a decent amount of meat to it. 

- The last fight is fun. Not much to say here. It is possible to just run past the cyb, but this sort of 'cinematic' cyb fight isn't unheard of in conventional maps. 

Here's a very casual max if you want. More or less an unrouted followup playthrough (so it misses the BFG :P). 

castleruins_rd_cmax.zip

48 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Cool. If I had to pick favorite parts, I'd go with the entire area behind the red key door, and the last fight.

 

Some general comments:
 

- The courtyard is full of high turreted monsters, which normally can tedious to clean up, largely because they can be hard to hit with rockets. But I think it works here, because movement of the typically 'elusive' monsters (revs) is restricted thanks to the trees, and most of the mid-tiers have wider hitboxes (mancs, trons) or are slow (HKs).  

 

- About the courtyard, there's a lot worth taking about here. The two lifts on the side could afford to be easier to comprehend (slightly more obvious trigger location + possibly a different texture to indicate that it's a lift), since hitting the switch on the left appears is mandatory for progression. I think it's possible to do that while maintaining the puzzly aspect of it. Generally speaking this area plays fine -- lots of health and cover to subsidize a more aggressive approach if the player is going for that, an also a campy approach can work too. The secret PI also allows some immunity from the hitscanners at the cost of requiring trickier, but not necessarily tough, managing of the more erratic projectiles. 

 

- It's possible to bump the yellow key after hitting only three switches, meaning you don't have to trigger the fight. Even with four switches, you can inch up to it and grab it without crossing the linedefs. I mostly don't think the YK fight works all that well as currently staged, because it can be threshold camped, by retreating either to the courtyard or the start area. 

 

- Heading to the area behind the YK door, I think the hallway ambushes aren't bad in principle but they'd probably be better off a bit more varied, which they can do while still maintaining the 'chaingunner cubby' theme. For example, one trigger could release freely roaming cubby chaingunners both in front of and behind the player. Headed to the main room, there are a lot of meaty monsters behind the 64-wide openings that can be very safely camped. An aggressive max run won't bother with that, but if you want to optimize for casual play, the opening can afford to be a lot wider (128 units at the least) or the monsters initially roaming that clump up in the doorways can be released when the player is in the room. The ambush triggered when the RK is made accessible was enjoyable. 

 

- Minor note about secrets: four of the secrets are simple pushwalls with the same texture. That repetition means these secrets are unlikely to be missed. Also, the water canal secret should ideally be one secret, rather than two.

 

- The big area behind the red key door: this area is really fun. Run 'n' gun gameplay with a decently complex floorplan, a wide assortment of monsters occupying different roles, and lots of individual fights that can be combined together. I can't find any fault with this part, really. Secrets here allow pretty reckless play, which was fun. 

 

- The library section behind the blue key door: it's probably best to stick near the back and hose down monsters as they try to squeeze through the 64-wide opening, mostly because the cacodemons roaming around can hover high above the bookshelves out of sight and block you with infinite height. I'd suggest removing those, possibly compensating with slightly harsher ground-based opposition. It's a bit odd that the mega is marked secret, since it's almost impossible not to spot. The BFG/'zerk being a secret would be more fitting (although not necessary).

 

- The penultimate area -- I'd say it's fine, but there's something about it that feels a bit fillery to me, like a stopgap en route to the last area. Part of that is that it doesn't have much of a core combat identity (beyond the initial chaingunners/HKs), which most of the other areas seem to try to have; and another part is that it's a reasonably sized part of map that already has a decent amount of meat to it. 

 

- The last fight is fun. Not much to say here. It is possible to just run past the cyb, but this sort of 'cinematic' cyb fight isn't unheard of in conventional maps. 

 

Here's a very casual max if you want. More or less an unrouted followup playthrough (so it misses the BFG :P). 

 

castleruins_rd_cmax.zip

 

 

 

Thanks for the write up!

Courtyard Area, The lifts have already been retextured but didn't make it to the first release.

About the yellow key. Yes i was aware of just bumping it as I did by accident a couple of times, Im still trying to figure out what the best approach is to making it a smooth transition and leading into the fight down below.

Behind the Yellow Door. Ah right I was thinking about doing that but then I thought it was only a connector so I didn't want to 'overdo' it. But no I can change that to make it more fun for a player.

Secrets: Yes I will be tweaking a few of the secrets. I made them different textured walls cause I saw it another map and in that map it worked for the map but I can change it in some way to make it harder. The sector behind the red key I will make that one secret. The berserk pack secret will be changed to not a secret.

The Library: I will be, redoing that area to make it more vailable for the revs and mb to actually roam. The mega originally required an SR50 jump to be able to get it so I decided to change that as I couldn't do it 100% of the time and for a new player or inexperienced they wouldn't be able to either, so I probably remove the mega and ammo and take the secret away cause 9 secrets is already too much getting that down a bit. The BFG and Berserk there were secrets but I changed that cause I had 14 secrets and I thought that's too much.

The Castle ruin area: Yeah I couldn't think about the changes needed here, I thought the lava and gate were a nice touch but maybe need to incorporate the ground aspect some more.

Thanks for the Playthrough and I'll go back to the workshop and see if my changes can make a better map. :)

 

8 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Wait... it's Boom format though. You shouldn't test this on Doom 2 1.9, I supposed? Will play it later today.

 

It seems I'm stuck in the courtyard next to the Yellow Keycard. I noticed those 2 switches on the top, but I randomly activated those lifts on the side twice, but can't find where the actual trigger is. I did use IDCLIP to look around and found out those are for secrets, so I don't know how to lower the Yellow Keycard. Also, I noticed some dots around the pillars next to the Yellow Keycard, so probably I need some hint.

Yeah I test all maps on all formats just to make sure incase someone plays on wrong comp level.

Yeah the 'dots' are the hints.

Finished the map. I would say it's a very solid first map. I'm too lazy to read rd's comments now, so probably there is something repetitive. Also, some of my points may be just something I don't like, so I hope this doesn't bother you. (How you do know I like castle and pick my favorite music from TNT ;P)

Aesthetic stuff:

- I think some texture looks like metal (the texture generally used on the sides of lifts) rather than stone. Since this is a castle, I think a more stony texture is better.

- The switch in front of the Red Door, I think it's better to put it into an indent rather than leaving the whole texture out. There are 2 switches shown now, which is kind of weird.

- The side textures of the bookshelves look out of the place to me.

- Minor HOM

Gameplay stuff:

- (I think this one rd had mentioned) Since there are so many high up monsters in the courtyard area, I think limiting their movement would be better. At least make them being unable to move inward since this makes them very unreliable to hit by rockets. This somehow makes the player to use the Chaingun, which sorts slow down the pace of the map in a wrong way.

- I would say "open the door to lower the lifts" is not a very clear way here. I hope it could be a little bit clearer.

- The hallway behind the Yellow Key Door, I think at least make the traps less revealing, or increase the variety of the monsters, or insta-pop something behind the player.

- Behind the Red Key Door, the linedef below somehow prevents monsters from going through. Maybe it isn't necessary.

- Behind the Blue Door, sometimes it's very difficult to hit the switches in the wall since the lifts is going up and down. I missed that switch so many times with both SSG and Chaingun. I think a better way to open those door could be used.

- This lift shown below can only be lowered from the longer sides, but not the shorter sides. Probably switch to another texture to avoid problem. Imaging someone presses the side and find out it doesn't lower and wanders around without any clue.

- Since the wall behind the teleporter of the final fight is only lower-able from one side, it would be a little funny that the player goes back to the rampart area, only finding out that he/she needs to find the teleporter again. Probably the wall can be permanently lowered by pressing one side.

- Many secrets are kind of obvious. I think more variety can be implemented, such as a not-so-obvious switch in the wall or misaligned textures.

13 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Finished the map. I would say it's a very solid first map. I'm too lazy to read rd's comments now, so probably there is something repetitive. Also, some of my points may be just something I don't like, so I hope this doesn't bother you. (How you do know I like castle and pick my favorite music from TNT ;P)

Thank you for the feedback.

In regard to that;

Aesthetic stuff: I tried to find a texture better for the lifts but I felt it didn't fit the image I was going for so that why I'm using metal. Double switch will be changed thanks for bring that to my attention. The library area will be re-done so I'll have a look at that when I re-do it. That HOM I don't even understand what is causing it as I copy pasted the stairs for both sides and the other side doesn't have it. (How do I get rid of it?)

Gameplay stuff: Yeah right, so would you like it if I put a invisible blocker behind the sky line? What do you mean by "Open the door to lower the lift?" I've played a few maps with as a feature so I wanted to use that. This is going to re-worked aswell, Rdwpa already gave me good feedback on this, so I will change it based on that.

That linedef has block monster because in playtesting all the monsters I placed there would all pool near the entrance and kill the player which ruined the gameplay for that area. This area is supposed to be a challenge because I thought it would be fun to have to shoot switches, probably won't change that. Ah right yes I will change that. Right yes, I will change that, good point!

Regarding the secrets: These will be altered and tweaked and some will be changed and taken away as having 9 is too many.

Thank you for pointing out a few things that Rdwpa missed or didn't see to point out in their opinion.

25 minutes ago, Bob9001 said:

so would you like it if I put a invisible blocker behind the sky line? 

 

What do you mean by "Open the door to lower the lift?"

 

That linedef has block monster

You mean the courtyard area? I think it's a good way to solve it. Mostly I don't like long distance Revenants who can walk sideways.

Sorry, for some reason I thought those lifts are triggered by the door, but I went back and checked, and I found out it's trigger the a line around the door.

Hmm, I see. I way I dealt with the outside is to get the Red Key and run into the Red Door, so the monsters will pile up at the door, so I can easily rocket them. I just use this as an analogy that a block line in this open area will group up monsters, which may be easier in my opinion. I originally thought that is a mistake, but it's not, so follow your instinct, not a problem.

7 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

You mean the courtyard area? I think it's a good way to solve it. Mostly I don't like long distance Revenants who can walk sideways.

 

Sorry, for some reason I thought those lifts are triggered by the door, but I went back and checked, and I found out it's trigger the a line around the door.

 

Hmm, I see. I way I dealt with the outside is to get the Red Key and run into the Red Door, so the monsters will pile up at the door, so I can easily rocket them. I just use this as an analogy that a block line in this open area will group up monsters, which may be easier in my opinion. I originally thought that is a mistake, but it's not, so follow your instinct, not a problem.

Yeah that's cool, I'll do that and see how it works.

Ah I get what you're talking about, don't fear this has already been changed, I removed the walking over linedef to trigger the lift.

Yeah well everyone has their own playstyle when it comes to grouping monsters, just know I didn't do it to slow you down I did it to improve the gameplay. :P

 

So I've spent the last day makes some changes and what not. All Changes can be found in the changelog attacted to the ZIP download.

Give me some feedback on everything I changed please.

A couple more screenies of my entry. I'm sincerely hoping I can get this done in time. Hopefully it will look and play adequately. I've decided that my map name will be 'Port Depravity'.

18 hours ago, TheV1perK1ller said:

A couple more screenies of my entry. I'm sincerely hoping I can get this done in time. Hopefully it will look and play adequately. I've decided that my map name will be 'Port Depravity'.

 

EXCITING! looking very forward to playtesting this.

Well I been making some quality of life changes to my wad, I think now it's maybe in the final state, probably won't change it anymore apart from if I add co-op support but yeah still on the fence about that.

Tell me what you think!

Just wondering, is anyone else other than me and @TheV1perK1ller making maps for this?

I'll make a map, and one other poster that I know of has a WIP. I would not mind extending the deadline if needed for more activity, however.

Perhaps we should relocate the topic into the WADs and Mods forum? Maybe give it some more attention?

Some co-op support would be good even if untested.  Put the starts in there and at least a few extra things and enemies.

@Bob9001

I was kind of lazy, so I IDDQD-ed through the whole thing again, but I forgot to get back to you these day because I was too busy (and didn't feel well yesterday).

I would say the courtyard still doesn't feel right to me. However, it's not necessary a bad thing because it's just my point. Interesting thing is, I expected an Arch-vile there when I press the switch. Glad that you added one.

I actually like the Yellow Keycard puzzle quite a bit, so it's a little bad sad when I saw it gone. Other changes are good IMO, so I don't have much to say.

Misaligned texture:

This is a funny thing, not really a suggestion. This wall reminds me the wall I wanted to get rid of when I was remodeling my house. This wall is very similar to the wall between my living room and kitchen, funny enough, eh.

7 hours ago, Searcher said:

Some co-op support would be good even if untested.  Put the starts in there and at least a few extra things and enemies.

I have added the starts and some multiplayer items, but I have yet to balance the WHOLE map for that. Still deciding, but you give a +1 for it so I should properly get to work on it.

1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

@Bob9001

I was kind of lazy, so I IDDQD-ed through the whole thing again, but I forgot to get back to you these day because I was too busy (and didn't feel well yesterday).

 

I would say the courtyard still doesn't feel right to me. However, it's not necessary a bad thing because it's just my point. Interesting thing is, I expected an Arch-vile there when I press the switch. Glad that you added one.

 

I actually like the Yellow Keycard puzzle quite a bit, so it's a little bad sad when I saw it gone. Other changes are good IMO, so I don't have much to say.

 

Misaligned texture:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This is a funny thing, not really a suggestion. This wall reminds me the wall I wanted to get rid of when I was remodeling my house. This wall is very similar to the wall between my living room and kitchen, funny enough, eh.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Aw, sorry to hear you not being feeling well.

Mmmm with the courtyard area, I went off Rdwpa's advice, and I felt like just adding one Archvile was good enough for that to be a complete area. Where the Archvile is I originally set it up as a teleport to skip half the map but I thought that being included might ruin the map.

Did you like the puzzle? Oh well it was just because you could grab the key without activating the trap which I didn't want to have like that cause it was supposed to be a difficult area. So now I just made it look like a Castle Hall haha.

Fixed, thanks.

Haha yeah well I re-did the whole area there and I left that cause I didn't want to make that a wall :P

On 6/15/2018 at 4:43 PM, TheV1perK1ller said:

Perhaps we should relocate the topic into the WADs and Mods forum? Maybe give it some more attention?

I'll request this within a month or so. I'll also extend the deadline to the end of the year, to allow more people to join and account for the move eventually bringing in new participants.

8 hours ago, Searcher said:

Some co-op support would be good even if untested.  Put the starts in there and at least a few extra things and enemies.

Good idea. Added to OP. 

2 hours ago, rdwpa said:

 I'll also extend the deadline to the end of the year, to allow more people to join and account for the move eventually bringing in new participants.

Yeah that sounds like a good idea, cause then you will get a mix of newbie mappers and pros.

3 hours ago, rdwpa said:

 

I'll request this within a month or so. I'll also extend the deadline to the end of the year, to allow more people to join and account for the move eventually bringing in new participants.

That is great news to hear. Depending on the amount of entries, I may consider doing a second map for this, maybe even a third if I'm motivated enough and there are still empty slots.

20 minutes ago, TheV1perK1ller said:

That is great news to hear. Depending on the amount of entries, I may consider doing a second map for this, maybe even a third if I'm motivated enough and there are still empty slots.

I'm considering doing a second map too, I have an idea for maybe Map 02-03? I don't know where my current map will fit in but will be good to know when we get a complete maplist :p

Hello all, just a quick update.

Been doing some more testing and managed to tweak a few things, COOP got added to my map so yay for that.

Will begin work on my second map soon, just don't have as much time at the moment.

Hey everyone. Just updating you on the progress for my level. As I have been designing it, it is becoming much larger and different than I envisioned it. I swear I spend way too much time getting the texturing fitting and aligned. It is coming along slowly, but steadily. I have also made a start on the side of my possible second entry (dependent on the amount of other submissions), and was designed to be easier than the first. Here is a picture of the 'entryway' of said level:

^The screenshot looks very gorgeous. I'm expecting floatRand class first time project thing from ya ;P