[New Map] Murky Bile of the Satan

Hello all fans of the "...of the Satan" series :)

Here I come to you with my new vanilla-compatible map. I'll be more than happy to receive any feedback or opinions.

WAD file:

http://chabowski.eu/DOOM_custom_maps/Murky_Bile_Of_The_Satan/Murky_Bile_of_the_Satan.wad

Story:

You're space marine who is obliged to kill boss! :)

Technical:

- No difficulty levels implemented (I consider the difficulty medium)

- Coop mode compatible

- Uses some textures from Doom1 IWAD

- Uses music from Doom1

- Uses great sky bitmap from "Eradrop"

- Tested with GZDoom, Chocolate Doom and doom2.exe on DosBox

Highlights:

- Regular base level with some hell showing up here and there

- More than usual nukage areas but plenty of radsuits to counteract

- Some optional areas for those who are ready to trade some time for bigger guns :)

- Some "vanilla" look-and-feel (doors, slow elevators, etc.)

Pictures:

Looks great! Also I really like the sky texture!

Interesting map, quite disorienting at first. I refused to fight with the pistol and got hurt a lot at the beginning, but it all worked out nicely in the end. I think these mini secrets got rather old after a while (simple 64x64 boxes). Same applies to barrels... I actually really like barrels, but when they are available in almost every fight it seems like an overkill. Anyway, the level was fun to explore since there was so much variety in design and texturing. I attached my playthrough.

Also, check this out: https://i.imgur.com/iYFEZ6B.png

Murky_Bile_of_the_Satan_mem_FDA.zip

Thanks for the demo and for suggestions. You actually escaped to the optional part of the map at the very beginning :)

There will definitely be a second release since I spotted some problems while watching your demo, for example, misaligned SP_DUDEs is the final area. Also, the elevator in the teleporter landing zone (which is used very often) should be fast, etc. The secret "cubicles" certainly need some more touch.

Regarding barrels, maybe you're right, but I think that thanks to them we could observe the rare Imp infighting with another Imp - if I'm not mistaken that happened during your gameplay. And the flying barrel seems to be PrBoom specific, but I will fix that.

I have a Pistol. I can't find a Shotgun. I hear an AV. That's a good start to a map. While there were a lot of ideas and mechanics I liked (needing the moving platform to get the SSG and having to wait for it to come back down to get out, while being a target for appearing monsters), it felt like the map was starting to get away from you; like you had too many ideas for one map; "I can fit another area in here. I can add another secret here". In general, fun, though.

A couple of weird things. You have multiple W1 linedefs starting each up/down platform moving. Wasn't sure why. Something to clean up? I found those in an editor when I was checking something else. One of the Red Key columns outside the exit door shows up as red on the automap. I thought maybe it opened a secret or was a secret exit. When I 'used' it, the ceiling came down. Turns out all four sides are tagged DR RedKey Open/Close, so the entire area outside the exit door turned into a closing door.

1 hour ago, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

like you had too many ideas for one map; "I can fit another area in here

I get what you mean and yes, I have this habit to add more and more stuff to a single map.

1 hour ago, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

You have multiple W1 linedefs starting each up/down platform moving. Wasn't sure why. Something to clean up?

If I'm not mistaken, there is a bug in Vanilla that could prevent the engine from registering player crossing the W line. So I doubled the lines just to be on the safe side, especially because the parts that are to be activated are crucial to finishing the level.

And the red skull column bug is just an oversight and will be addressed as well as other minor stuff that I found in the meantime.

Anyway, thanks for the valuable feedback. Much appreciated.

Hi again!

I've replaced the file in the original location with the updated version of the map. Thanks again for your feedback!

Here it is again, for your convenience:

http://chabowski.eu/DOOM_custom_maps/Murky_Bile_Of_The_Satan/Murky_Bile_of_the_Satan.wad

List of changes:

• Less Imps in the starting room in hope that this will convince players to clear the room with pistol and then do some simple exploration to grab a chaingun from suiciding Chaingunners
• Secret areas reworked to be less boring
• Red skull column no longer activates anything
• Automap cleanup, mainly in the final battle arena
• Fixed texture alignment in the final battle arena (SP_DUDEs)
• Fixed item placement (flying barrels and armor helmets)
• Added a computer panel ledge to indicate that a jump is required to reach the area with red door
• The most often used lift (in the underground) is fast
• Button on the "nukage pillar" is lit and blinks to attract attention. The same applies to the blue door in the sewage tunnel
• Minor geometry tweaks
• Nodes built with WadAuthor for even more nostalgia shot (and slime trails)

Here are some shots of new areas:

As usual, any feedback is greately appreciated. It there is no more I will soon try to record a 100% run using Chocolate Doom and upload the video to YouTube.

On 6/18/2018 at 11:35 AM, mgr_inz_rafal said:

 

I get what you mean and yes, I have this habit to add more and more stuff to a single map.

 

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, there is a bug in Vanilla that could prevent the engine from registering player crossing the W line. So I doubled the lines just to be on the safe side, especially because the parts that are to be activated are crucial to finishing the level.

I'm not familiar with a bug where the engine doesn't register that a player crossed a walkover line. I even checked the list of known bugs in the Wiki and found nothing like that. The only reason I know that a walkover line would not be triggered would be for it to be situated so that the center point of the player could not actually cross it. I know of the behavior where a W1/WR line less than 16 units away from a S1/SR line will prevent the switch from being triggered, but not something about walkover lines not being triggered.

So, as long as the player can actually cross the line, the engine should detect it. No need for a redundant walkover line.

If I am mistaken, and there is some sort of behavior like this with walkover lines, I would be interested to know this.

It's called a linedef skip and it is very well known, at least among speedrunners who often exploit it to a great effect (see map04 of freak4 for a radical example). Making lines diagonal rather than orthogonal makes it much less likely to happen but still, doubling important triggers is a praiseworthy endeavor and should be only encouraged.

1 hour ago, Memfis said:

It's called a linedef skip and it is very well known, at least among speedrunners who often exploit it to a great effect (see map04 of freak4 for a radical example). Making lines diagonal rather than orthogonal makes it much less likely to happen but still, doubling important triggers is a praiseworthy endeavor and should be only encouraged.

I stand corrected. And I'd even read Linguica's Doom Movement Bible and didn't remember it, largely because it had never happened to me in action. Now that I understand better the issue, I agree that doubling trigger lines that will break your map if not activated is a good idea.

Is there a good rule of thumb for how far apart these redundant trigger lines should be placed? Are we talking about 16 units apart for orthogonal lines and 24 units apart for diagonal lines? Or am I thinking too deeply about this?

2 hours ago, Pegleg said:

I even checked the list of known bugs in the Wiki and found nothing like that.

The bug is documented (albeit briefly) on the wiki as the noclip bug. I've added linedef skip as a redirect.

@Pegleg, I pretty much always at least double W lines. They are incredibly easy to skip when SR50ing. But I will often put them extremely close to one another, even sharing a vertex, but never parallel. My logic is that if one got skipped, it shouldn’t affect the next one at all. I don’t know if that’s actually true, but I have never skipped an action line when I have doubled up. 

Thanks for elaborating on the issue. I just remembered from the very old times that sometimes, for the reason then unknown, I could step into the teleporter without being teleported. That's why this issue rings a bell...

I guess this is fixed in modern ports, right?

So, since there are no more comments I present two videos of the level. One uses Vanilla and the other one GZDoom.

On 6/17/2018 at 4:11 PM, Memfis said:

Murky_Bile_of_the_Satan_mem_FDA.zip

Memfis, do you mind if I record your run and post the video on YT?

Oh, feel free to do so. :)

I had a lot of fun exploring this map, but it kept dumping me into situations I didn't have enough ammo to handle. So many revenants and hell knights, yet so little shotgun and chaingun ammo. I kept having to flee encounters in search of ammo I never found. After a while I died and didn't feel up to trying again. The plasma kept me alive for a little longer than I would have survived otherwise, but it wasn't half enough.

Thanks for your valuable feedback. Ammo balancing is something that I struggle the most with. That's why I started to fully support difficulty settings in my newer maps.

Layout was pretty good and mostly fun to explore i kinda like it. Texture choices was good overrall but on few places texture choice didn't fit well and didn't look that well with the rest of the place. Gameplay was mostly good and managable howewer you need to ballance your ammo and weapon placement better, just put few more shells here and here and you will be good. And i have same opinion about barrels as memfis. Honestly the worst part of this map is visual language which doesnt work at all and i was disoriented quite lot, You have no idea how long it took me to find a way to red key. Anyway your map is pretty good just keep working on yourself as a mapper.