Denim Destroyer Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) Name: Morte (UPDATE 1) https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1C17sGSi_EL6d1fCvxxEZIiQq02bJ5tHE?usp=sharing Inspired by: Mt. Erebus and Pandemonium Build time: 3 weeks (I lost motivation part of the way through) Music: Nobody Told Me About ID Co-op support: Starts only DM support: limited Description: I attempted to model the level after Infernos unnatural architecture. I'm hoping to have this map sit at the end of an episode due to being themed after Mt. Erebus. Demo: Included in link, tested in PrBoom 2.5.1.4 Map was mostly tested in Boom for Demo reasons. Screenshots Spoiler Edited July 28, 2018 by Classicgamer6 3 Share this post Link to post
Darox Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Two FDAs for @DMPhobos & @Classicgamer6 drx-CainaMorte-FDA.zip Caina Aside from those damaging sectors Urthar mentioned, my main issue would be the plasma rifle. I didn't notice it until after everything was dead and with an extra 100 cells in the exit room I left the level with 300 cells. I wasn't really hurting for shells either so I was pretty heavily overstocked for any subsequent level. Morte I had some issues with ammo leading up to the blue key doors. The secret teleport to the boat is missing a texture on the door track & you can't open it from the inside because there's an action line for the lift in front of it. It also has the best rewards which feels odd because it's the easiest to find and it's right at the end. The teleport out of the rocket launcher secret area doesn't work in complevel 2 because the teleporter sectors also have the tag and have a lower index than the landing zone. I couldn't get it to launch in chocolate but there are some visplane overflow hotspots out in the blood sea and more importantly also near the yellow door and on the boat. Looking at drawsegs the map basically explodes. Edited July 28, 2018 by Darox 4 Share this post Link to post
Denim Destroyer Posted July 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Darox said: Morte I had some issues with ammo leading up to the blue key doors. The secret teleport to the boat is missing a texture on the door track & you can't open it from the inside because there's an action line for the lift in front of it. It also has the best rewards which feels odd because it's the easiest to find and it's right at the end. The teleport out of the rocket launcher secret area doesn't work in complevel 2 because the teleporter sectors also have the tag and have a lower index than the landing zone. I couldn't get it to launch in chocolate but there are some visplane overflow hotspots out in the blood sea and more importantly also near the yellow door and on the boat. Looking at drawsegs the map basically explodes. I've been taking a look at it and trying to fix the visplane issues. Problem is I can't figure out how to fix it. I however have adjusted the boat secret to give a blue armor instead of megasphere in addition to fixing both the lift and missing door texture. I'll give a link once I can find a fix for the visplane overflow. 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted July 28, 2018 @Classicgamer6, this may help you if the answer is yes, but really I'm just asking because I don't know. If you have discrete sectors that have the same properties (i.e. could be joined without any apparent difference in game), will joining them decrease the number of visplanes or did the engine already consider them the same anyway? 0 Share this post Link to post
Denim Destroyer Posted July 28, 2018 See I read that joining sectors would help which is what I have been doing as a fix. I did just fix the door area right when I read your reply, all I did was add a few pillars and that fixed my problem. 0 Share this post Link to post
bonnie Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) @HAK3180 If they have the same properties and are adjacent, they're already considered the same, I'm 99% sure. Then again I don't know if we're talking about drawsegs or visplanes, as visplanes are just the floors and ceilings. edit: 59 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said: The real issue is what Darox noted as the drawseg overflow. I am aware, that's why I was confused. 59 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said: Drawseg overflow crashes Chocolate Doom in my experience. Yes? Of course? Why wouldn't it? No it doesn't you fool!! How could anyone think that. I surely didn't. I'll take a look at the map. Edited July 28, 2018 by bonnie 0 Share this post Link to post
Aquila Chrysaetos Posted July 28, 2018 The real issue is what Darox noted as the drawseg overflow. Drawseg overflow crashes Chocolate Doom in my experience. 0 Share this post Link to post
Urthar Posted July 28, 2018 Morte weights in at about a Megabyte, which is a bad sign for a vanila map, and even attempting to open Visplane Explorer crashed DoomBuilder2 for me. Generally you have to be either very spartan (Doom E3M6) or very clever (BTSXE2 MAP01) to get big exteriors to work in the original engine. Getting Morte to work, will probably require stripping out a lot of sector outlining, simplifying things generally, and adding large Line Of Sight blocks. Your interiors are probably fine. 0 Share this post Link to post
Denim Destroyer Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Well I'm not clever so I'll just remove the trim from each building that has it and some other minor details to reduce the file size and drawseg issue. 0 Share this post Link to post
HAK3180 Posted July 28, 2018 Oh, I thought drawseg overflow just meant HOMage. But yeah, I can't get it to load at all in Chocolate or Chocorender, even after deleting probably almost half the map. 0 Share this post Link to post
AD_79 Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) To anyone working in vanilla: please test your maps in vanilla as you build them. Having to totally rework a map that wasn't built with consideration for the limits is a monolithic pain in the ass. A quick look in visplane explorer reveals that your map is reaching 500 segs in places. Scaling it down (the farther out the player is allowed to go, the more HOM they'll get in their face), adding some blockers if necessary, and only having the lines you need would perhaps be a good start? I see a bunch of trims that don't add much visually but sure add to the count. That boat to the southeast is 200 lines by itself, though just deleting it doesn't have much of an effect. I'm not sure the map is salvageable in its current state; you can try of course, but I'd recommend doing an entire rebuild of the map while keeping the limits in mind. Don't rely solely on visplane explorer if you do, be sure you're testing in ChocoRenderLimits as well. It would also give you an opportunity to scale essentially everything about the map down. There's a ton of empty space and areas that feel bigger than they need to be. By the way, your map doesn't start up in Chocolate Doom because there's some lines sitting out in the void unassociated with a sector. These can be seen around the chaingun room to the south. Deleting them allows the map to boot up. Edited July 30, 2018 by AD_79 11 Share this post Link to post
Denim Destroyer Posted July 28, 2018 I posted an updated version of my map. It fixes the visplane overflow by the yellow door but not the one on the ship, I am looking for help on how to fix that one. Other things to note is that I can boot this version in Chocolate Doom. I also fixed the teleporter not working and being stuck in the boat area. One last thing is I want to thank everyone who has offered advice on how to fix my level it is really appreciated. 0 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted July 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said: The real issue is what Darox noted as the drawseg overflow. Drawseg overflow crashes Chocolate Doom in my experience. Really? I've had a map that had drawseg overflows and it didn't crash Chocolate Doom. All it did for me (as HAK suggested) was cause HOM. 0 Share this post Link to post
Aquila Chrysaetos Posted July 29, 2018 I've played maps that Chocolate wouldn't run in area that had drawseg overflows, but not visplane overflows. Either something else is going on or my machine's running Chocolate improperly, because I know it should cause the HOM's and not crash the engine. 0 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted July 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said: I've played maps that Chocolate wouldn't run in area that had drawseg overflows, but not visplane overflows. Either something else is going on or my machine's running Chocolate improperly, because I know it should cause the HOM's and not crash the engine. You may want to check with fraggle on the Chocolate Doom thread. I don't think it's supposed to be crashing like that, in that situation. 0 Share this post Link to post
Aquila Chrysaetos Posted July 29, 2018 No reason to ask him to support a seven year old machine that runs the worst Windows OS known to man. It can't even run Ultimate Doom with PRBoom+. I'll have a new machine soon and it should run everything fine. Regardless, testing in Chocolate is imperative for a vanilla map, and what you may need to do is reduce the size of the playing area, though I'm thinking that AD is probably right and that a total overhaul might be necessary. 0 Share this post Link to post
Denim Destroyer Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) @bonnie I'm withdrawing from the project. Trying to get my level to work is proving too hard for someone of my skill level and rebuilding it from scratch will be too mentally draining. I was going to make a Slough inspired map as a replacement but unfortunately I have no ideas for it besides a very basic layout which I heavily doubt my ability to expand upon. I apologise in advance for any inconveniences this may cause. Edited July 29, 2018 by Classicgamer6 : Dropping out 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted July 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Classicgamer6 said: @bonnie I'm withdrawing from the project. Trying to get my level to work is proving too hard for someone of my skill level and rebuilding it from scratch will be too mentally draining. I was going to make a Slough inspired map as a replacement but unfortunately I have no ideas for it besides a very basic layout which I heavily doubt my ability to expand upon. I apologise in advance for any inconveniences this may cause. Well, but you can still release map stand alone and get feedback on it. 0 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted July 29, 2018 Myst.Haruko is right--you can still release it and get feedback, which will be valuable. And when you release it, you have the option to put all of the detailing (trim, etc.) back in. And you don't have to worry about reducing the playing area. Just release your map as limit-removing. 0 Share this post Link to post
Aquila Chrysaetos Posted July 29, 2018 I'll try for another map to fill one of these empty slots, but it'll be a speedmap if anything and we shouldn't hope for a miracle. I'll name is Tartarus, if that name isn't already taken. 0 Share this post Link to post
Garbage Posted July 29, 2018 We can always use my other map to fill the slot 0 Share this post Link to post
DMPhobos Posted July 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said: I'll name is Tartarus, if that name isn't already taken. Heh, i was gonna use that name until i settled for Caina when i had half of my map done 1 Share this post Link to post
Big Ol Billy Posted July 29, 2018 FDA back ya, @Urthar: bob_urth_penta.zip I'm kind of obsessed with this map. There's just so much coolness here: the red/green use is inspired, the pentagon motif is neat visually and keeps the combat fresh, the progression and monster use (on UV) hit that "oppressive but fun" sweet spot for me, door crushers are a surreal and hilarious surprise, the two staircase traps are great. I could go on. I did catch one weird (not quite mis-) alignment here: Great job, I gotta check out some of your stuff. 1 Share this post Link to post
bonnie Posted July 29, 2018 10 hours ago, Classicgamer6 said: @bonnie I'm withdrawing from the project. Trying to get my level to work is proving too hard for someone of my skill level and rebuilding it from scratch will be too mentally draining. I was going to make a Slough inspired map as a replacement but unfortunately I have no ideas for it besides a very basic layout which I heavily doubt my ability to expand upon. I apologise in advance for any inconveniences this may cause. Friend, I already told you what you needed to get started with fixing the map. The map is still potentially salvageable and I firmly believe you would be able to accomplish such a task. Please reconsider. Again. We can help on the discord. We currently have lots of slots opening up as people are dropping out, so it looks like my dreams of making 3-4 maps is going to come true :o I would prefer having new names join the project, but I'm okay with having people make multiple maps. I had more to say but I already forgot. 2 Share this post Link to post
Denim Destroyer Posted July 29, 2018 I really just don't have the motivation to work on this anymore. As I mentioned earlier I once again apologize for any inconvenience this may cause but my decision is final. 0 Share this post Link to post
Aquila Chrysaetos Posted July 29, 2018 Tartarus Inspired by: Limbo Build time: 5 hours (+2 because of computer issues) Music: Pick one for me. Coop support: Starts only DM support: None at the moment Demo: In the zip accessed in the link above. UV-max, HMP-max, and HNTR-max Screenshots: Spoiler These two rooms are quite literally the entire map. I'll add extremely rudimentary DM support, but this map is in no way constructed to be even remotely friendly for it. 1 Share this post Link to post
Urthar Posted July 29, 2018 Thanks for the demo @Big Ol Billy , glad you like the map. I'm sure there's a variety of texture glitches I haven't noticed. CtrlA does a pretty good job, but inevitably some bits of geometry won't wrap exactly. 0 Share this post Link to post
FrancisT218 Posted July 30, 2018 I've recorded a couple levels. They are blind runs with saves/reloads allowed. Feedback including any bugs/issues I found is typed out in the video. @Aquila Chrysaetos @NaZa 1 Share this post Link to post
Aquila Chrysaetos Posted July 30, 2018 Thank you, @FrancisT18. The misalignment you pointed out is because of the bricks above, which are aligned a specific way. All the corridors have those. I couldn't think of a secret to add that would make sense. I almost added one to the first blood pit, but I removed it because nothing worked. There is a teleport in that one that I left there, but I won't be adding a teleport to the other. I think it adds to the fight and offering a way out, even punishing as that damage is, detracts from it, I think. 1 Share this post Link to post
FrancisT218 Posted July 30, 2018 @Aquila Chrysaetos You're welcome. :) It seemed like a bit of a particularly cruel level, certainly a long ways harder than anything in Inferno. But given it is so short, it could be okay as is; perhaps as I had mentioned it may fit in best as a small level closer to the end of the wad. 1 Share this post Link to post