Marine training

I kinda thought about Half life's Hazard Course (and Opp. For.'s Boot camp).

What if, during the period when you walk about in a friendly environment before it all goes to Hell, there is a barracks of sorts where you can enter a sophisticated training facility to try out at least your pistol on moving targets within some labyrinth.

Could be nice to kinda get a feel of how it feels to aim and shoot stuff before you leap into the fray for real.

Actually, it could be really cool but I doubt id Software will implement it.

They don't want to look like they're ripping off Half-Life.

Little Faith said:

They don't want to look like they're ripping off Half-Life.

Doesn't need to be a HL ripoff - just a place where you walk in to practice some target range shooting. No darn instructor to tell you what to do just some moving targets to pick off.

Hmm, quite a nice new thread that has nothing to do with the a... Oops nearly said it :)

Yeah, I've always liked training missions and I've always completed them even if they weren't so good. It's very interesting to try the moves, some of the weapons etc. before playing the actual game.

But the training should be made so that player is not quided hand by hand through it. More Deus ex like maybe. And I don't wand to hear that boring "press that button to make player jump, and this to make him move forward" talk. I play the trainings for interest, not to learn to play.

That probably isn't far fetched at all. DoomIII is going for realism, and if there are going to be guns and things everywhere, there would naturally be a place to keep in practice.

DooMer 4ever said:

And I don't wand to hear that boring "press that button to make player jump, and this to make him move forward" talk. I play the trainings for interest, not to learn to play.

Damn straight - the manual tells you how to do stuff - the training area should just be to give you a feel of how to use weapons (and only the pistol! Keep the other weapons stuff you gradiually pick up and learn to use later), before you're gonna use it "for real" in the game.

dsm said:

I kinda thought about Half life's Hazard Course (and Opp. For.'s Boot camp).

What if, during the period when you walk about in a friendly environment before it all goes to Hell, there is a barracks of sorts where you can enter a sophisticated training facility to try out at least your pistol on moving targets within some labyrinth.

Could be nice to kinda get a feel of how it feels to aim and shoot stuff before you leap into the fray for real.

WOW. thats exactly the topic i thought about this morning.
in the end i came to the conclusion that it's too costly for id to build an extra number of high quality levels just to introduce doom3 to some fps noobs; maybe id adds some on screen tips in the first few missions on the "hurt me plenty" difficulty setting.
it rather would be nice to see a fairly long playable "introduction mission" like the bit in the alpha.

uniQ said:

in the end i came to the conclusion that it's too costly for id to build an extra number of high quality levels just to introduce doom3 to some fps noobs; maybe id adds some on screen tips in the first few missions on the "hurt me plenty" difficulty setting.

Um, it's not a whole level I'm talking about here - it could for that matter be part of a level full of demons later, like you return to the areas where you walked about in peaceful environments before and now these areas are full of demons (imagine some eerie situations in that target range labyrinth).

And NO WAY do I want tips to show up during the early missions! As a matter of fact, I don't want any tips to show up during the actual game (after the point were the gate to Hell opens up).

The training course should include a few (easy) secrets too.

dsm said:

Um, it's not a whole level I'm talking about here - it could for that matter be part of a level full of demons later, like you return to the areas where you walked about in peaceful environments before and now these areas are full of demons (imagine some eerie situations in that target range labyrinth).

And NO WAY do I want tips to show up during the early missions! As a matter of fact, I don't want any tips to show up during the actual game (after the point were the gate to Hell opens up).

the idea of firstly walking trough levels that are later occupied by hellspawn sounds very nice. lets hope that it is possible to populate a firstly emtpty level later with gore/items/enemies...or they just take the "peaceful" maps and re-design it, i.e. add eerie content.
maybe u'll awake in doomguys personal habitation: first some fast cut cinematics shot in sick angles (moving from pov90 to pov 140 very fast) shows some weird nightmare of you: blood, dead bodies, screams, etc; suddenly your alarm-clock reminds you that duty starts soon. its pitch black and in heavy breathing (<- nightmare) star trek style you say: "lights" and the light softly brightens up showing your room. you stand up take a shower watching the latest news from earth on your plasma screen - there should be some story hints in (conspiracy themed!) - and finally put your service dress on. then the introduction to the "portal accident" can be showed and BANG you are in action.
this would be a nice opening cinematic, wouldn't it?
personally i hope that you meet a lot of npc in the first maps because its unlikely that suddenly "all" npc are zombified. it would be really cool if you could see frequent zombiefications of your former mates - you have to react fast and put them down before they point their guns on you. this would be tricky because you are considered just to have the pistol in your arsenal. low on ammo!



with tips i mean: "here you can jump up using mouse button2", "press ALT to activate inventar", "use c to crouch in there", etc. and those tips should only be displayed in the first few maps and only on the lower difficult settings - noob style should be built in. but i think extra levels would be a waste of ids time - they better add this time building/tweaking actual game play maps.
this actually tips wont bother me because i'll tend to play d3 anyways one setting below "nightmare". then i replay it on "nightmare". then i download all the better maps that popped up while i played it a second time. finally i'll switch to d3-mods. then q4 will come and all starts again :)

Yeah, it would be cool to practice in a training facility before the demons take over the place. I would also prefer that the only weapon that would be used during the training, is the pistol. Maybe you would be allowed to see the more advanced weapons on blueprints, or introduced by a taped voicemessage from a high superior while looking at the actual gun (BFG9000 perhaps?). The training facility could include small monitors that would provide information about the more advanced weapons, so you can learn more about them before using them, or should it be the other way around?

Carmack already said that you'd be able to walk around a bit before hell breaks loose, probably similar to Halflife. Maybe they'll use that part of the game to train you, but I prefer to meet marines and talk to them. It'd be cool to see the same marines lying on the floor with their guts hanging out. That would certainly give you a creepy feeling, since you 'knew' them before it all happenend. Sort of like Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan. If you know people too much, it'll hurt a lot more to see them die. As far as hurting goes in a game ofcourse..

Well, according to the D3 article. the writer said there's no redefining of gameplay rules. D3 is a classic(traditional/established/expected)run-and-gun action game. It just gonna look a hell of allot better and boasts to be "MAD" scarier.

I don't think they'll put in a "bootcamp" level inside. But It suggestes a "HALF-LIFE" style opening. When the marine arrives to mars for duty a receptionist greets him and brief him about the station he's on, And also gives him his very own PDA gadget. Which offer pretty much everything from Mission Objectives, Communications, Inventory, Automap, recieve both Email/Video messages and lastly a ranking "SARGE" will be constantly phoning in from a safe area somewhere in the game to assist you. So my guess is if there's any "BOOTCAMP" part in the game. It'll most likely would come from sarge through your PDA.

*I wonder what "PDA" stands for ?

I don't want any tips to show up during the actual game (after the point were the gate to Hell opens up).

dsm opens up the PDA while playing Doom 3 equipped with the rocket launcher.

PDA Text message: "This room is filled with highly flammable gas, it is advised that you do NOT use weapons that produce large amounts of combustion in this area."

dsm- "GODDAMNIT! I SAID NO FUCKING TIPS ID SOFTWARE!" dsm then gets off the coputer and tears down his photo shrine of the iD software team.



:p

tsareppsun said:

I don't think they'll put in a "bootcamp" level inside. But It suggestes a "HALF-LIFE" style opening. When the marine arrives to mars for duty a receptionist greets him and brief him about the station he's on, And also gives him his very own PDA gadget. Which offer pretty much everything from Mission Objectives, Communications, Inventory, Automap, recieve both Email/Video messages and lastly a ranking "SARGE" will be constantly phoning in from a safe area somewhere in the game to assist you. So my guess is if there's any "BOOTCAMP" part in the game. It'll most likely would come from sarge through your PDA.

*Sigh* tsareppsun, why don't you read my posts? I didn't say jack shit about a bootcamp level. As I pointed out before it's only an area within a barracks (kinda like the target range in HL: Blue Shift just bigger and more like a marine training ground).

Disorder: My suggestion does not leave out the possibility that you meet and talk to marines - in fact my suggestion highly supports that.

Ex. *Player meets marine outside training area * Marine: "Boy, that target range area is the only amusing spot in this damn base - maybe you should try it so that you don't get all sloppy from boredom"

but i think extra levels would be a waste of ids time - they better add this time building/tweaking actual game play maps.

And no, it will NOT be waste of time if you return to that place when it's full of demons - remember, Doom 3 is going to have a lot of emphasis on realistic environments, so a target practice labyrinth would sure as heck make sense. It's not an extra map - it's the same map later in the game, just with a few ruined targets (torn apart by demons) and demons lurking in the labyrinth (behind targets) and that sure as Hell won't be a "waste of time" - I thought I made that clear above.

dsm said:

And no, it will NOT be waste of time if you return to that place when it's full of demons - remember, Doom 3 is going to have a lot of emphasis on realistic environments, so a target practice labyrinth would sure as heck make sense. It's not an extra map - it's the same map later in the game, just with a few ruined targets (torn apart by demons) and demons lurking in the labyrinth (behind targets) and that sure as Hell won't be a "waste of time" - I thought I made that clear above.

*sigh* dsm, why don't you read my posts? ;)
i said EXTRA levels, i.e. special levels just made for learning how to jump, shoot and duck that never reappear in the game. those would be a sensless waste of time. the reappearing levels sound ok to me.

@tsareppsun: PDA = personal digital assistant.

uniQ said:

*sigh* dsm, why don't you read my posts? ;)
i said EXTRA levels, i.e. special levels just made for learning how to jump, shoot and duck that never reappear in the game. those would be a sensless waste of time. the reappearing levels sound ok to me.

I heard ya (no, I READ ya), and I told you that it was not going to be an extra level - just an area of a level that WILL reappear.

It is possible though that I may be misunderstanding you - could you clarify further?

Because making levels that will not reappear with monsters in them later on IS a waste of time as you said, but that's not what I'm talking about in this thread. So far, I've interpreted your comments as turning my idea down on the grounds that "it would simply be a waste of time to implement it".

dsm said:

I heard ya (no, I READ ya), and I told you that it was not going to be an extra level - just an area of a level that WILL reappear.

It is possible though that I may be misunderstanding you - could you clarify further?

Because making levels that will not reappear with monsters in them later on IS a waste of time as you said, but that's not what I'm talking about in this thread. So far, I've interpreted your comments as turning my idea down on the grounds that "it would simply be a waste of time to implement it".

nah...we wrote at cross-purposes. i meant that if the introduction levels seen as extra levels will be a pure waste of time. those levels from your pov sound nice as long as its something better than just a plain shooting range. shooting range on a mars base?! why should they need such things - afaik we never had made a first contact so far - so what has UAC to protect?! strange things are going on! ;)

uniQ said:

shooting range on a mars base?! why should they need such things - afaik we never had made a first contact so far - so what has UAC to protect?! strange things are going on! ;)

So you mean that they don't not believe that there are other forms of life out there?

DooMer 4ever said:

So you mean that they don't not believe that there are other forms of life out there?

on mars should not live anything that has to be destroyed by a bfg. maybe some evil mars-microbes?! he he.

dunno if we already made some contact at UAC times - but seems not so because there were no vulcans in doom1+2! hellspawn will be mankinds first "alien" contact and we OWN them like we did once before ;)

uniQ said:

on mars should not live anything that has to be destroyed by a bfg. maybe some evil mars-microbes?! he he.

But they would prepare themselves for an alien attack coming from outside our solar system, wouldn't they?

uniQ said:

shooting range on a mars base?! why should they need such things - afaik we never had made a first contact so far - so what has UAC to protect?! strange things are going on! ;)

Why would they employ troopers to protect their property? Well, the UAC has very strong military ties - supposedly because they're doing all the cutting edge technology that the military might have a major interest in.
And the military is usually paranoid around secret projects which the military could benefit from (new weapons), so I take it that they have stationed heavily armed troops there to keep agents from other countries from infiltrating the facilities and steal any plans.

And who knows? There might be space pirates or equivalent in the Doom universe (at least before all Hell breaks loose) that would have an interest in getting their filthy hands on UAC tech.
Plenty of reasons for the military to be paranoid and to keep their grunts fit and well-prepared at all times.

Oh, and did any of you ever consider that the BFG might be a weapon prototype developed in the Martian weapons labs?

dsm said:

Oh, and did any of you ever consider that the BFG might be a weapon prototype developed in the Martian weapons labs?

Yes. But that smacks of Half-Life again... remember the Gluon gun? Still, can't be original in EVERY aspect of the game.

I think the idea of a trainging type area is a good thing.

dsm said:

Why would they employ troopers to protect their property? Well, the UAC has very strong military ties - supposedly because they're doing all the cutting edge technology that the military might have a major interest in.
And the military is usually paranoid around secret projects which the military could benefit from (new weapons), so I take it that they have stationed heavily armed troops there to keep agents from other countries from infiltrating the facilities and steal any plans.

And who knows? There might be space pirates or equivalent in the Doom universe (at least before all Hell breaks loose) that would have an interest in getting their filthy hands on UAC tech.
Plenty of reasons for the military to be paranoid and to keep their grunts fit and well-prepared at all times.

Oh, and did any of you ever consider that the BFG might be a weapon prototype developed in the Martian weapons labs?

this will be more likely then the fear of "real" aliens.
it would be nice if id gaves us same background information about the technological, political and sociological situation in the uac aera - a lot of novels could be spinned around that century: early space exploration, uac conspiracy, misleaded dimension technology, military dictatorship(?!) big coorporates rule the world, etc.

maybe a little from that will be placed on the uac's homepage.

doom3 should be an all around immersive experience - we should feel like we ARE in uac's time.

DooMer 4ever said:

But they would prepare themselves for an alien attack coming from outside our solar system, wouldn't they?

why should they? it seems that in the uac century no real distance space flights could be done - or am i wrong.
so if there are aliens who intend to attack us we wouldn't have the smallest chance to defeat them - come on - they have the technology to travel lightyears in a hurry then they have weapons so strong that we even cant see them killing us. no "signs" movie style aliens. real bad muthafukkers. therefore it makes no sense to prepare for an attack by aliens you arent really aware of.

its more like: lets defend our technology from the business competitors or an evil-minded government.
but suddenly doc. betruger gets nasty and opens some portal to hell...

dsm said:

Doesn't need to be a HL ripoff - just a place where you walk in to practice some target range shooting.

Doomguy: Hey, John, what's happening? How's life on Mars? Pretty Boring eh? I know how we can make it fun, go stand on the other end of this extremely long, shooting range-like hall way.

Private John: Uh, ok.

<!--BANG-->
[body hits floor]

Doomguy: Still got it!

hahaha

As to why they have their base gaurded there are several practical reasons: To prevent theft of equipment or projects by rival nations/powers, terroists, pirates, any form of organized crime. We dont know that the base is the only settlement on or near mars (if somthing offical has been mentioned to the contray just ignor where I am taking this).

Other games besides half-life also have traing levels. Did I get half-life flashbacks when playing Deus Ex's traing level. PS if you realy hate traing levels that bad just skip them.

To DSM: Ahh Well....My Bust, Since I never seen or played HL: Blue shift, I had know way of knowing where exactly you were coming from.....

To uniQ: Your definitely on to something with your background idea on the DooM/UAC era as a whole. And thanx about the PDA.

tsareppsun said:

To DSM: Ahh Well....My Bust, Since I never seen or played HL: Blue shift, I had know way of knowing where exactly you were coming from.....

Ah but I DID say that it wasn't a full boot camp level - more like a target range area (perhaps with a few areas where you'll need to crouch, jump etc.).

Or did I?

Anyway, the Blue Shift target range is just your everyday target range: Some shooting booths and some targets at the end wall of a larger room.
But I was thinking of a smaller labyrinth with narrow, gloomy hallways (later on when the shit hits the fan lights won't be working properly so this place will get really eerie - especially with growls and howls from demons) where you walk around and suddenly tatgets appear down hallway *bang* *bang* *bang*, theres an obstruction you need to pass - jump over it and duck under that wall behind it - a target is waiting on the other side *bang*, etc.