Egg Boy Posted September 2, 2018 (A Friend) is currently making a mapset, and (they) plan on centering a map around a cyberdemon within episode one, which map, do you think (they) should. And in general when should a mapset introduce everyone's favorite cyborg goat? Be it an episode, or a full megawad. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bauul Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) Cybs, like any enemy, have no "right" or "wrong" time to be introduced on a mapset. Ancient Aliens, for example, famously has one on Map01. What matters more is that the encounter is interesting. The reality is a Cyberdemon in an otherwise empty room just isn't a threat: circle strafing makes them mostly harmless. But when treated right, they are still intimidating, nerve-wracking enemies to fight. So instead of picking a specific mapslot, I'd say it doesn't matter where they're placed, as long as they are given their due diligence by the mapper. Edited September 2, 2018 by Bauul 26 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted September 2, 2018 Cyberdemons are generally one of the more difficult enemies, which is why they've typically been used later in maps or mapsets. However, their usage can also send a message to the player. Yes, skilsaw used a cyberdemon in Map 01 of Ancient Aliens, but he was also trying to tell the player, "This is how this megawad is going to be. If you don't like it, just stop now." bAlso, as skilsaw has said, the object was not to actually fight the cyberdemon when you first encountered it, but to run away. The key to the cyberdemon is, like all other monsters, to use it where it is most appropriate and the biggest threat to the player. If you think about it that way, as Bauul said, there is "best" time to introduce them. Let the flow of the map, episode, or megawad dictate when and where to introduce the cyberdemon. 2 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) First map, like this: 24 Share this post Link to post
Gaia74 Posted September 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said: First map, like this: Beatiful cybie!! :v 1 Share this post Link to post
Nine Inch Heels Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Egg Boy said: (A Friend) is currently making a mapset, and (they) plan on centering a map around a cyberdemon within episode one, which map, do you think (they) should. And in general when should a mapset introduce everyone's favorite cyborg goat? Be it an episode, or a full megawad. Maybe try asking that question from different angle, and instead look at how that supposed map fits with the other maps in terms of difficulty and/or theme? Is it supposed to be a "boss map"? Is it gonna be one gimmicky map among others? Those are things I'd probably look at first personally. The line of thought that there needs to be a set rule as to when certain enemies are to be introduced because there are "tiers of monsters" is not something I'm a huge fan of, same for when weapons get introduced, or how weapon progression works throughout a map. 2 Share this post Link to post
theJF Posted September 2, 2018 It depends. If you're introducing a cyber demon to your parents then I'd say anytime after the first two weeks of dating. Or after the second shag; whichever comes first... 4 Share this post Link to post
Memfis Posted September 2, 2018 I think for a traditional megawad, Map08 (like in Doom 2) is a pretty good choice. Maybe 10 or 11 is even better. I definitely don't want to see any cyberdemons in the first six maps. I like when boss monsters are treated as such and don't appear too early. 1 Share this post Link to post
Cruduxy Pegg Posted September 2, 2018 5 hours ago, theJF said: It depends. If you're introducing a cyber demon to your parents then I'd say anytime after the first two weeks of dating. Or after the second shag; whichever comes first... So right after meeting the cyber? 1 Share this post Link to post
Uni Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) When Should You Introduce a Cyber Demon? When you least expect it. *Muwahaha cough cough* On a more serious note, I think Cyberdemons works best either as a roaming threat you can't defeat yet or as a climax fight that introduce him in a setup the plays to his strengths. Cyberdemons are somewhat considered as a "boss monster" even though in modern times they are not as scary as they used to be in the early days due to higher skill level and modern controls but they should still not be underestimated. I personally like the roaming version being put in a sandbox map that can chase you all around the map while you still don't have the sufficient munitions to deal with since it adds a certain fear factor to the map and introduce a hazard you can't defeat, but playing a long map that ends up with a cool climax fight with it can also be quite enjoyable, especially if the arena or the setup is well-made. Or you can just throw in a shittons of Cyberdemons into the map and call it a day. Some players might enjoy that too. 0 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted September 2, 2018 14 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said: First map, like this: Paging @Maes. 31 minutes ago, Uni said: Or you can just throw in a shittons of Cyberdemons into the map and call it a day. Sounds like a poorly thought out section of a slaughter map. 32 minutes ago, Uni said: as a roaming threat you can't defeat As long as you could eventually defeat it, you wouldn't invoke the ire of the "every map MUST be max-able or it's broken" crowd. I think it would be neat if you could have the cyberdemon as a roaming threat and manage to get it to arrive at the final arena for the climax fight, too. I don't remember which map it was, but I remember seeing one where a Cyberdemon hunted you through an interconnected series of relatively narrow corridors. There was room for you to dodge and move and retreat and there was plenty of room for the Cyberdemon to follow you and you had enough ammo to defeat it, but you couldn't just circlestrafe around or dash in and hit it with the BFG or those sorts of things, so it was an interesting fight. 0 Share this post Link to post
Uni Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Pegleg said: Sounds like a poorly thought out section of a slaughter map. Umm yeah that was part of the less serious section of my suggestions. But keep in mind, some players still enjoy setups like that. 20 minutes ago, Pegleg said: As long as you could eventually defeat it, you wouldn't invoke the ire of the "every map MUST be max-able or it's broken" crowd. I think it would be neat if you could have the cyberdemon as a roaming threat and manage to get it to arrive at the final arena for the climax fight, too. Yeah of course. At the beginning you have to avoid it at all cost and afterwards when you progress in the map and find stronger weapons, you can decide if you want to eliminate it. 0 Share this post Link to post
NeedHealth Posted September 2, 2018 Currently I'll just introduce the first cybie about half way through the map, more of a surprise behind a wall you lower. The fight takes place in a rather cramped room with one or two pillars . The lowering wall means you have the obvious egress closing quickly if you're not quick. 0 Share this post Link to post
Novaseer Posted September 2, 2018 Quite often I will introduce Cybies early, but either a: make them weaker than a normal cybie by giving a lot of cover and ammo, b: add a telefrag or c: introduce them on UV only. 0 Share this post Link to post
Phoby Posted September 2, 2018 I would say introduce them after the player can get their hands on the BFG. Maybe around map 10 or so? 0 Share this post Link to post
Doge Sword Posted September 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Pegleg said: As long as you could eventually defeat it, you wouldn't invoke the ire of the "every map MUST be max-able or it's broken" crowd. I think it would be neat if you could have the cyberdemon as a roaming threat and manage to get it to arrive at the final arena for the climax fight, too. Have you forgotten? You have been given these great weapons called "fists". 1 Share this post Link to post
Doge Sword Posted September 2, 2018 If I were to make a megawad, I would put a cyberdemon at map 15 where the player could only use SSG to kill it, then a few at 27,28,29 but they have the BFG9000 at that point. Then obviously there would be a bunch on level 31, the secret slaughter map. 0 Share this post Link to post
Duke of Pathoris Posted September 2, 2018 The Cyberdemon is a very good climax boss. I recommend about 2/3 of the way through the map. And unless you have 2 or more, I advise leaving out the BFG to make it more challenging. 0 Share this post Link to post
Hitscanning_scumbag Posted September 3, 2018 it really depends on how big of a boss you're gonna have him be. is he gonna be like any other enemy? wandering around firing misses? then id say follow the style of DOOM if he is gonna be a big Boss with an atmosphere of fear, then id say build up to it. just my opinion but a good boss leads with suspense. wanting to know what all these big, bad demons are afraid of. wanting to know what kind of hellish thing you're to encounter next? i think Legacy of suffering did that kinda thing perfectly (even if some of the lower monsters gave me heck ) Spoiler especially the part where you climb in the vents and watch it go by. 0 Share this post Link to post
42PercentHealth Posted September 3, 2018 The first map should contain between 12 and 20. You can build up from there. 3 Share this post Link to post
Deleted_Account Posted September 3, 2018 You can introduce the Cyberdemon anytime you want (hey it's your project) so long as you supply the necessary armaments or escape route. 1 Share this post Link to post
Nine Inch Heels Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ex Oblivione said: so long as you supply the necessary armaments or escape route. Which means a berserk pack and no escape route, basically 3 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted September 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Phoby said: I would say introduce them after the player can get their hands on the BFG. Maybe around map 10 or so? I wouldn't give the player the BFG and load the map up on plasma prior to facing the cyberdemon. It significantly lessens the danger of the encounter. 5 hours ago, Doge Sword said: Have you forgotten? You have been given these great weapons called "fists". If you haven't already played rdwpa's map for Nine Inch Heels, you should give it a try because it sounds like it might be right up your alley. 2 Share this post Link to post
Deleted_Account Posted September 3, 2018 54 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said: Which means a berserk pack and no escape route, basically Well the Cyberdemon is huge so that means he has huge guts. Rip and— Well you know the rest. 3 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted September 3, 2018 1 hour ago, zaszthedestroyer said: just my opinion but a good boss leads with suspense. @Egg Boy Think about the opening of E2M8, especially the first time you played (or from Doomguy's perspective, just having arrived there). You start out facing a disemboweled jawless Baron of Hell that's been hung on a wall. What could have done that to the most powerful enemy the game has thrown at you up to that point? The two Barons were the lords of the Phobos base. The only thing that could have done this is something immensely powerful. Then, when you finally enter the rest of the level, you can hear something stomping around. So, you know that there is something out there that is big and bad and very strong, but you don't know what it is. So, what does that add up to? As zasz has already said, suspense. 3 Share this post Link to post
geo Posted September 3, 2018 When she's pregnant and you've decided to marry her. 1 Share this post Link to post
Job Posted September 3, 2018 After it takes you to its Cyberden for the first time. 1 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted September 3, 2018 8 hours ago, geo said: When she's pregnant and you've decided to marry her. That has all sorts of disturbing connotations. But I guess it's in the same vein as: 3 Share this post Link to post
Hitscanning_scumbag Posted September 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Pegleg said: @Egg Boy Think about the opening of E2M8, especially the first time you played (or from Doomguy's perspective, just having arrived there). You start out facing a disemboweled jawless Baron of Hell that's been hung on a wall. What could have done that to the most powerful enemy the game has thrown at you up to that point? The two Barons were the lords of the Phobos base. The only thing that could have done this is something immensely powerful. Then, when you finally enter the rest of the level, you can hear something stomping around. So, you know that there is something out there that is big and bad and very strong, but you don't know what it is. So, what does that add up to? As zasz has already said, suspense. it's true. just in my opinion the original cyberdemon wasn't that great. he was basically just a larger normal monster that you could circle strafe around. so all the suspense, in my opinion(unless you were playing for the first time) lead to nothing special. (not dis-agreeing, just clarifying) 0 Share this post Link to post