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TakenStew22

"It's too cartoony"

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It looks good tbh. The only complaint I got is that the Mancubus isn't as intimidating as the Doom 2016 or The Doom 3 version. I'm fine with little snippets of humour like the head bonking as long as it's kept to a minimum.

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I hope they bring back the classic door sounds that were in the doom 2016 pre-release videos.

 

Wait a minute, What does that have to do with this thread topic? I guess I've just ran out of things to say here.

Edited by MrD!zone

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On 9/8/2018 at 5:47 AM, Touchdown said:

Note that id has always been pushing more and more towards an aggressive, gritty visual realism with their games. They went from goofy Wolf3D style to a more realistic approach in DOOM, ramping it up with some really messed up and grotesque monsters in Quake, brutal abominations in Quake2 and later on various horrors in DOOM3. As technology was improving they've been consistently making their worlds and characters more gritty / realistic and less goofy. So I definitely disagree with the argument that just because the original DOOM monsters look cartoony now that means that recreating them 1:1 in a modern engine is commendable. It ignores the original intention.

The original intention doesn't matter. Games have reached peak grit in Call of Duty, Halo 5 and any other series you could think of. It's time to stop taking that so seriously.

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I'm not bothered by the level of stylisation that id seem to have gone for with the human characters in Doom Eternal. It's the sort of thing I could see being in comic books or graphic novels aimed at more mature audiences.

They've gone bigger with the weapons, bringing back the classic plasma gun design. While there's clearly an element of power fantasy in the menacing bulk of its design, I don't think it crosses the line into being outright silly. Especially since it's highly likely that powered armour is a thing, even if the Doom Slayer himself doesn't need it.

I expect that plot-wise, id are aiming *at most* for something along the lines of 80s/Early 90s action films like Demolition Man, where the humour and wacky elements are notable, but not to the point that the tale devolves into a farce. There will be high stakes that still make sense without them.

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Honestly the game looks like nostalgia pandering. I love me some Classic Doom, but for crying out loud none of the classic demons (Caco being exception because honestly they're just classic caco with arms and look badass) look good in idTech 5

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I thought the most cartoony thing I saw was the health bonuses looking like blue potion bottles like from Classic Doom, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Doom was always at least a little cartoony in its appearance, even Doom 3 has some exaggerations in its designs, though it was trying to be the darker and edgier one.

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I remember when the first press shots were released for Doom '16 and everyone complained it didn't look cartoony enough.  

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On 9/10/2018 at 3:11 AM, Dear Hoplite said:

but for crying out loud none of the classic demons look good in idTech 5

Just out of curiosity - how many classic monsters have you seen redone in idTech5?

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8 hours ago, Reinchard said:

Just out of curiosity - how many classic monsters have you seen redone in idTech5?

 

Pretty much just the Mancubus, Zombies, Caco, and (imo) the Baron looks pretty classic. Oh and the revenant and lost soul

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48 minutes ago, Dear Hoplite said:

 

Pretty much just the Mancubus, Zombies, Caco, and (imo) the Baron looks pretty classic. Oh and the revenant and lost soul

 

Mancubus - ok. Zombies, Cacos - hmm, maybe something about 50% design of this characters are based on classic ones. Baron? Nah... But aside from that - which one of this looks bad on idtech5/6? In my opinion those monsters which design is mostly based on classic Doom like Mancubus or Imps looks excellent and fit very well to rest of environment. But it's only opinion. But at least I see something that brings back feeling of good old Doom. 

 

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15 minutes ago, MrGlide said:

When D16 came out there where so many criticisms on the monster designs, and how many of them where not like the originals. Id redoes monster designs so most of them look like modern day renders of the original designs and get called cartoony, Id can't win.

 

Imo, the whole "it's too cartoony/inconsistent/gritty/whatever-you-want" argument is just pointless.

 

Some people can never be pleased no matter what you do.

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I for one am fully supporting an exchange of arguments and points of view, as long as people don't attack each other in the process. No reason for trying to shut it down with those "oh people always complain about something so there's no point talking about it."

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23 minutes ago, Touchdown said:

I for one am fully supporting an exchange of arguments and points of view, as long as people don't attack each other in the process. No reason for trying to shut it down with those "oh people always complain about something so there's no point talking about it."

 

Me too, it's just that they get irritating after a while, from my POV anyway...

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I love the art style.  Where some might see it as cartoony I just see it as colorful. 

 

But here we are at the polar opposite.  Game was too dark and orange ... now it is too much color.  D3 seemed to suffer from the same nonsense.  They even made a secret world to poke fun at the complainers.

Edited by Zemini

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7 hours ago, MrGlide said:

    Everyone talking about the originals, original intententions. When D16 came out there where so many criticisms on the monster designs, and how many of them where not like the originals. Id redoes monster designs so most of them look like modern day renders of the original designs and get called cartoony, Id can't win. Hugo isn't Adrian, we're in a new age with new developers, it's not going to look exactly the same aesthetically as what id was going towards before. it's like when a band changes band members, it'll never sound the same again.

I specifically remember people complaining that the D16 Mancubus was too alien looking and not like the original incarnation. They listen and make the alterations and now it’s too cartoony and doesn’t translate.

 

Well shit.

 

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13 hours ago, Ex Oblivione said:

I specifically remember people complaining that the D16 Mancubus was too alien looking and not like the original incarnation.

Same with the Caco...

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I don't mind the current designs of monsters, as I don't know how a "Realistic" monster looks like, My only real gripe comes from how the Human NPCs shown in that Phobos portion look like, but I think we're only gonna see them in that specific scene only anyway, Olivia looked more natural compared to these NPCs, perhaps they didn't put enough effort in them because they're only going to appear in that scene?

EDIT: don't get me wrong, I think the game overall looks great, I guess i'm just being nitpicky here :p

Edited by tempdecal.wad

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It's not really about effort so much as stylization. The humans look very mildly Pixar-esque, much as the monsters look slightly cartoony. There is a less serious overall tone to the art direction, but it's still hyper detailed and lovingly animated. Each game has its own aesthetic.

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18 hours ago, Ex Oblivione said:

I specifically remember people complaining that the D16 Mancubus was too alien looking and not like the original incarnation. They listen and make the alterations and now it’s too cartoony and doesn’t translate.

 

Well shit.

 

Making changes does not automatically mean they're for the better or that they're shielded from criticism. Yes, the D4 Mancubus looks like it's from XCOM. Yes, the DE Mancubus looks almost silly because it's a 1:1 recreation of an ancient sprite. You can say that sounds like senseless whining of someone who's never happy with anything but I can point you towards at least three different fan arts that capture the spirit of that monster way better than both of those versions while keeping the design recognizable, not too alien and not too cartoony. It can be done, and fairly easily too. But the new id is for some reason very reluctant to do that sort of thing and instead their solution to the problem is recreating 25 year old assets. Not a very interesting approach if you ask me.

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6 minutes ago, Touchdown said:

I can point you towards at least three different fan arts that capture the spirit of that monster way better than both of those versions while keeping the design recognizable, not too alien and not too cartoony

 

Please do.

 

I'm intrigued how they look. :)

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Well, these are nothing new, I'm pretty sure everyone has seen them already. Let's see...

 

by Ben Shafer

This one is probably the least 'faithful' but it's also my personal favourite. I've always seen the Mancubus as an abomination, some sick, twisted atrocity that's been mutilated and deformed. Disgustingly fat with crude cybernetic 'enhancements'. This one captures exactly that.

 

by Mechanubis

This is probably the one that I'd like to see instead of the DE version. It's kind of inspired by the D3 incarnation I think. I love how he's so fat that his guts are literally spilling out.

 

by IzzyMedrano

This is an odd one. It doesn't exactly envoke the same kind of vibe of an abomination... but I like it anyway. Still has a lot those 'crude surgery' / 'crude cybernetic modifications' elements in its design.

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@Touchdown Ah yes that fanart by Mechanubis, that one is fantastic. Would've been great to see something closer to it, but I'm fine with a recreation of the original sprite.

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On 9/10/2018 at 8:06 PM, Bauul said:

I remember when the first press shots were released for Doom '16 and everyone complained it didn't look cartoony enough.  

 

I think it was more about a lack of color, something doesn't have to look cartoony to be vibrant.

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On 9/8/2018 at 8:48 PM, HellVain said:

It looks good tbh. The only complaint I got is that the Mancubus isn't as intimidating as the Doom 2016 or The Doom 3 version. I'm fine with little snippets of humour like the head bonking as long as it's kept to a minimum.

Do you think the head bonking was inspired by the 3 stooges? I find the original mancubus model to be much intimidating than the 2016 incarnation. The original mancubus face looks more menacing/evil in nature. Never a fan of the 2016 look.

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