"It's too cartoony"

10 hours ago, MetroidJunkie said:

 

I think it was more about a lack of color, something doesn't have to look cartoony to be vibrant.

There were countless lack of color complaints when DOOM 2016 first premiered. Some people even mentioned that they used some sort of piss filter. Now that we have this in my opinion, new much improved looking version, people complain that's it's too colorful ? Give me a break! Some of you complain more than CNN does.

Well, I certainly don't think the final version of Doom 2016 is too colorful. If anything, I think the Hell sections are still a little too reliant on muted yellowish colors. There's some spotches of blood to provide contrast but, for the most part, I thought the UAC environments looked more aesthetically pleasing.

3 hours ago, Don_Faparotti said:

There were countless lack of color complaints when DOOM 2016 first premiered. Some people even mentioned that they used some sort of piss filter. Now that we have this in my opinion, new much improved looking version, people complain that's it's too colorful ? Give me a break! Some of you complain more than CNN does.

Yeah honestly at this point I hope ID software doesn't read anything in this forum cause they'll get so many contradicting ideas of what fans want they might as well abort the entire project.  It wasn't this bad before the 2016 release, must be all the 30 year old boomers and zoomers running about.

3 minutes ago, STILES said:

Yeah honestly at this point I hope ID software doesn't read anything in this forum cause they'll get so many contradicting ideas of what fans want they might as well abort the entire project.  It wasn't this bad before the 2016 release, must be all the 30 year old boomers and zoomers running about.

Does id Software read anything in Doomworld?

Reddit is where the official DOOM Facebook and twitter pages tend to Quote posts and images from so I'm going to assume that's what they usually check, though I recall someone mentioning the usernames of some id software employees registered here in DW.

5 minutes ago, tempdecal.wad said:

Reddit is where the official DOOM Facebook and twitter pages tend to Quote posts and images from so I'm going to assume that's what they usually check, though I recall someone mentioning the usernames of some id software employees registered here in DW.

Ah, nice.

On 9/8/2018 at 11:07 AM, tempdecal.wad said:

I disagree, I believe it only looked cartoony due to technical limitations back then, I think that's why id Software was leaning towards a more realistic look with Doom 3, Realistic does not necessarily mean boring, you can have the best of both worlds, but eh... since apparently most people are fine with that I guess they'll just roll with it.

It wasn't just id Software. Games and media in general had been striving for more and more realism for the better part of the past two decades. Recently, there has been a shift towards more fantastical media -- like the 5 billion highly successful MCU movies, for example, which are only growing closer to adapting designs straight from comic pages.

16 hours ago, MetroidJunkie said:

Well, I certainly don't think the final version of Doom 2016 is too colorful. If anything, I think the Hell sections are still a little too reliant on muted yellowish colors.

Agreed, D2016 not being colorful enough is one of the things that bothered me as well, particularly in some sections inside the facility. Seeing Eternal taking a different approach with a much more vibrant world (or universe) that actually feels alive yet mysterious at the same time is very welcome for me.

14 hours ago, STILES said:

Yeah honestly at this point I hope ID software doesn't read anything in this forum cause they'll get so many contradicting ideas of what fans want they might as well abort the entire project.  It wasn't this bad before the 2016 release, must be all the 30 year old boomers and zoomers running about.

Different people want different things, it's natural, but true nonetheless, I hope they do whatever they want with their games. As we all know, when you try pleasing everyone you end up pleasing none, and by the looks of it some people can never be satisfied.

19 hours ago, Don_Faparotti said:

There were countless lack of color complaints when DOOM 2016 first premiered. Some people even mentioned that they used some sort of piss filter. Now that we have this in my opinion, new much improved looking version, people complain that's it's too colorful ? Give me a break! Some of you complain more than CNN does.

A number of people in this thread have used this argument... Which is really strange because the assumption that all of those complaints are made by the same people is completely unfounded.

Not to mention that I haven't seen anyone say that DE looks cartoony because of vibrant colors. Again, a numer of people have defended it against that point... But who says it looks cartoony because it's colorful? Nobody in this thread, that's for sure.

16 hours ago, STILES said:

Yeah honestly at this point I hope ID software doesn't read anything in this forum cause they'll get so many contradicting ideas of what fans want they might as well abort the entire project.  It wasn't this bad before the 2016 release, must be all the 30 year old boomers and zoomers running about.

Typical - taking jabs at people with a different opinion instead of making counter arguments to further the discussion.

21 hours ago, MetroidJunkie said:

Well, I certainly don't think the final version of Doom 2016 is too colorful. If anything, I think the Hell sections are still a little too reliant on muted yellowish colors. There's some spotches of blood to provide contrast but, for the most part, I thought the UAC environments looked more aesthetically pleasing.

Aside from the Hell sections, I thought the game struck a perfect balance in terms of coloring, It doesn't look odd or too colorful but it also doesn't constantly use 1 color scheme, there's all kinds of green, purple and red inside the facility sections, and they actually improved the environment color for the hell section so it doesn't look too yellow, compared to the reveal trailers it seems like they were listening to the criticism about the color of the hell section and so the color was changed to somewhat reddish, and later on shifting towards grey and bits of orange.

After the release of D'16 I haven't heard any person complain about the game not being colorful enough, those who do probably only used early reveal trailers to judge the contents of the game.

Yeah they're cartoony,but -- I like it.

2 hours ago, tempdecal.wad said:

After the release of D'16 I haven't heard any person complain about the game not being colorful enough, those who do probably only used early reveal trailers to judge the contents of the game.

Not necessarily. I certainly haven't used early footage to base my opinion on its use of colors, but there are some sections that do look bland to me personally, such as some parts of the Foundry, and Hell could've used more variety.

Strong art direction is what will make or break a game's aesthetic. Does Eternal look a bit Pixar-esque? Yeah, a bit. This is the tone of this particular incarnation of Doom; a touch more whimsical than in the last two games, but not more so than the originals. 

OG Doom has cartoon proportions. Had they been realistic, you'd be left with about five or six pixels of headroom for facial details, instead of the nine to 12 we see on humanoid characters. A lot of things become a bit indistinct at that resolution if you go for pure realism. There's also no denying the juvenile absurdity of the cacodemon and pain elemental designs; giant floating meatballs with huge mouths. The immense level of detail of everything (for 1993) doesn't imply a purely realistic approach; the cartoon element, however subdued, was always there.

Cel shading, rubbery animation, severe squash/stretch deformations and bouncy physics would be a problem for Eternal because that would constitute a level of cartooniness that has never been present. It would appear id is very aware of when to draw the line.

39 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

 

Not necessarily. I certainly haven't used early footage to base my opinion on its use of colors, but there are some sections that do look bland to me personally, such as some parts of the Foundry, and Hell could've used more variety.

There's bits of red near one of the gore nests and bits of green near the security clearance body but when looking at the theme of the level there's not much you can without straying too much from the orange "Lava factory" theme the levels was going for, I think there's plenty of variety in terms of design and use of colors for the rest of the levels, the Snow and Bridge sections from the VEGA and Argent Tower levels respectively come to mind, and I like how they changed the tech style in the Lazarus Labs level too, to give the players a sense of different location, the only levels that I felt lacked something were the Hell levels, but that wasn't because of their usage of colors, but rather their design that felt like a deserted location and lacked the sense of eeriness you would expect from a location like Hell.

2 hours ago, tempdecal.wad said:

Aside from the Hell sections, I thought the game struck a perfect balance in terms of coloring, It doesn't look odd or too colorful but it also doesn't constantly use 1 color scheme, there's all kinds of green, purple and red inside the facility sections, and they actually improved the environment color for the hell section so it doesn't look too yellow, compared to the reveal trailers it seems like they were listening to the criticism about the color of the hell section and so the color was changed to somewhat reddish, and later on shifting towards grey and bits of orange.

Yeah, they definitely shifted their color palette in terms of the actual monsters. The Cacodemons are much redder than in the trailer and you've got others like the Baron and Pinky that are quite vibrant. The Hell sections are better than the initial reveal but it still could have used an extra push, making the stone sections green like in Classic Doom would have gone a long way.

I think that purely in terms of color / effects usage id is definitely doing a great job. It's colorful but it's not overdone with blinding and distracting post effects everywhere. In fact in D4 there are a couple of effects that I wanted to be MORE prominent. So it's nice that they're showing some restraint in that field. There are however a couple of areas that they made more colorful than necessary. But the base levels in particular look 100% appropriate.

While Doom '16 isn't perfect with the colour usage (Hell feeling a little less colourful), I'm extremely satisfied with it overall. I would have accepted the "piss-filter" pre-release palette as well, but much prefer what we got. No real complaints there.

Doom Eternal's take on Hell on Earth takes care of the minor nitpick I had about Hell in the previous game, so not complaining there either.

The only nitpick I have about things looking "cartoony" in Doom Eternal would perhaps be the Possessed Soldiers; I really appreciate that they have a very classic look to them, but them having put on an exaggerated body-builder muscle-mass physique and not wearing helmets seems a little jarring coming after the more "realistic" fully battle-ready soldiers with melted, expanded skin that ended up partially outside their armour look they had in Doom 2016.

Not really a complaint as such, more of a "huh? That's a little odd..." reaction.

I do appreciate that things look different and distinctive in Doom Eternal - it means I can continue to appreciate the previous game for its slightly different style even after DE ships.

I dont mind the art style of any given enemy from the gameplay reveal, I just personally think they don't really "mesh" with each other like the original Doom monsters did and even D16's did

Aren't the Legions of Hell supposed to be a bit chaotic in nature though? They're not a disciplined army, they're disparate parts gathered together into an unruly mob governed by strongmen. Strongdemons. Whatever.

4 hours ago, tempdecal.wad said:

the only levels that I felt lacked something were the Hell levels, but that wasn't because of their usage of colors, but rather their design that felt like a deserted location and lacked the sense of eeriness you would expect from a location like Hell.

Bingo, same fam.

11 hours ago, NoXion said:

Aren't the Legions of Hell supposed to be a bit chaotic in nature though? They're not a disciplined army, they're disparate parts gathered together into an unruly mob governed by strongmen. Strongdemons. Whatever.

That's a pretty shaky excuse imho. But if thats how it feels for you and it enhances you enjoyment of the demons, more power to you though, thats awesome. 

26 minutes ago, EtherBot said:

That's a pretty shaky excuse imho. But if thats how it feels for you and it enhances you enjoyment of the demons, more power to you though, thats awesome. 

I don't think it's shaky at all. The chaotic nature of the demons is reflected in the very gameplay itself by how easily the player can provoke monster infighting.

58 minutes ago, NoXion said:

The chaotic nature of the demons is reflected in the very gameplay itself by how easily the player can provoke monster infighting.

I wasn't saying that the demonic forces aren't chaotic, I'm just saying that doesn't justify how different they all look stylistically.

Real life animals also fight each other, but at least they look like they're from the same universe.

Excuse me but no. "Real animals" look incredibly varied from one another. Compare your average dog to a jellyfish? how about a beetle compared to a giraffe? These creatures are worlds apart in terms of visual appearance, and these aren't even extreme examples. The demons in DE are fare more alike to one another than animals on Earth are to one another.

Chill out man. We're talking about video games. I've already conceded that I can understand NoXion's point, I'm just talking subjectively about why I don't love the new redesigns.

58 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Compare your average dog to a jellyfish? how about a beetle compared to a giraffe? These creatures are worlds apart in terms of visual appearance, and these aren't even extreme examples.

 

With my disclaimer being out of the way, that's a pretty weird argument imo. I was never trying to claim that real life animals look similar, and if I was it would be totally against the rest of my argument. The monsters in D16, for instance, don't look similar at all. Compare the imp to the Mancubus or the Mancubus to the Revenant. I'm not trying to say the Doom Eternal monsters should have looked like they were the same species or something, just that they don't match stylistically with each other. 

Even in the original Doom, the Lost Soul, for instance, is totally alien compared to the Pinky Demon but they look like they realistically inhabit the same space. They are similar stylistically which has nothing to do with whether they look varied or not. 

I see your point but, honestly, stylistically/artistically/whatever other word you want to use to explain it - the new assets feel very much in keeping with the established style in my honest opinion.

I mean thats fair I guess, I just disagree lol

Respect. Agree to disagree. :)

12 hours ago, EtherBot said:

I wasn't saying that the demonic forces aren't chaotic, I'm just saying that doesn't justify how different they all look stylistically.

 

Real life animals also fight each other, but at least they look like they're from the same universe.

Hasn't it been established that Hell invades and corrupts other universes? So it should come as no surprise that, while those incorporated into the Legions of Hell might share the same general characteristics of looking mean and gribbly and well, Hellish, they also significantly diverge from each other physiologically.

I, for one, love how cartoony it is. I got some real Army of Darkness vibes from the reveal.