cannonball Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) So whilst I do a lot of UDoom stuff with the Return to Hadron series still in progress and still slowly running UDINO, here is something with the doom 2 resources in hand. This is a work in progress mapset which might become a megawad further down the line. So this wad contains 11 maps replacing Maps01-11, these are pretty much tech based themed though they can be separated by the traditional map07 intermission screen, the first six are more earth base style and revolve around a power facility, the final five are more military base style. There will be a lot of familiairty from some past works of mine (Maps 07 and 10) or indeed other peoples works from the past (Map04 and perhaps 11). This wad is limit removing (complevel 2) Some pics which I still have on my laptop for a few of the maps; Maplist Map01 - Renaissance Map02 - The Green Room Map03 - Life of Grime Map04 - Secluded Base Map05 - Cistern Control Map06 - Dambusters Map07 - Prison Break Map08 - We Are The Mortars Map09 - Painframe Map10 - Days of Mayhem Past Map11 - Skyfall Idgames link https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/ddev Edited October 21, 2018 by cannonball 41 Share this post Link to post
bioshockfan90 Posted May 6, 2018 Hornet's nests! Hornet's nests everywhere! I'm always super impressed with what you can do with square architecture, these are some great maps right here. Can't wait for a full release. 0 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted May 7, 2018 Played yesterday a little of all maps, amazing mapset! 0 Share this post Link to post
Alfonzo Posted May 7, 2018 Oh, yes, it's a Doom 2 cannonball episode! Does this one play similarly to Hadron? I've been thinking a lot about how the encounters in that series sustain a kind of guerrilla combat across sprawling, open networks, and whether it can be replicated as well in Doom 2 granted full use of its assets. It's perfectly chaotic—honestly the most fun I have with Doom—and it's troubling that almost all the sets I've played that either achieve or tend toward this kind of play are for the original game. Something to do with the lack of an SSG making it difficult for players to stand their ground for too long, maybe, forcing them to pull the herd to another unexplored corner of the layout? Or maybe you've found a way to have this all work out and it's not nearly as difficult as I make it sound. Looking forward to playing this one. I'll try to keep my expectations in check. 0 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alfonzo said: Oh, yes, it's a Doom 2 cannonball episode! Does this one play similarly to Hadron? I've been thinking a lot about how the encounters in that series sustain a kind of guerrilla combat across sprawling, open networks, and whether it can be replicated as well in Doom 2 granted full use of its assets. It's perfectly chaotic—honestly the most fun I have with Doom—and it's troubling that almost all the sets I've played that either achieve or tend toward this kind of play are for the original game. Something to do with the lack of an SSG making it difficult for players to stand their ground for too long, maybe, forcing them to pull the herd to another unexplored corner of the layout? Or maybe you've found a way to have this all work out and it's not nearly as difficult as I make it sound. That is what I liked about Hadron the most too. It takes Doom's 'limitations' and teases positives out of them. - No SSG coupled with careful parceling of rockets/plasma means that the horde of meat -- usually cacos and barons -- are going to stay alive for a while. Incidental low-tier threats (imps and shotgunners and souls and such) keep you from safely plinking away at the horde indefinitely. The goal is often to acquire that high-tier ammo while not getting trapped or worn down by attrition. - OG Doom mid-tiers are overall a lot more infight-resistant. Cacos are some of the toughest mid-tiers to get involved in most types of infights (those not involving boss monsters, where they can often be easier), because they are elevated on the z-axis. Barons are so tanky that it's impractical to get them to infight anything but those hard-to-infight cacos. When deploying a mix of species in Doom 2, infighting will generally thin the hordes to some extent. - Lack of viles and pain elementals (and to some extent chaingunners) pushes the gameplay more towards the slow-boiling sustained sort we see in Hadron. Doom 2 'sprawling' setups that involve oppressive 'kill on sight' threats will tend to have a lot more peaks and valleys if they are 'balanced' -- the threat level will be high at first when they are alive, and drop a lot when they are dead. So I think this points at the proper approach for creating similar setups in Doom 2: - Restrict SSG access, or limit the number of shells for it. - Use a limited number of mid-tier species in most areas. Variety can be added in spots where the player shouldn't realistically be able to set up infighting as easily -- e.g. dead ends where hordes of monsters can't be safely funneled into, areas with much more platforming and damaging floor and highly awkward terrain. - Viles should supplement the threat, not define it. Being able to flee and hide from them for stretches of time is a plus, as the tension still exists as long as they are alive. Vile turrets that can deny space but aren't really 'that' oppressive can be put to good use, especially when the high-tier ammo calculus is such that the player might actually be better off not killing them. - The same goes for PEs. They should be used to distract and complicate the player's handling of other threats, rather than being positioned as a 'kill this first' type of monster with other monsters interfering in some way with that. These don't count to the limit of primary roaming mid-tiers because obviously their infighting is typically hamful. - Chaingunners offer a good alternative to shotgunners, but shouldn't be overused relative to them. A good ratio is probably 1:3 among 'roaming hitscanners' and 'oppressive snipers'. (Non-oppressive turrets that deny localized pockets of space don't count towards either.) Shotgunners' inconsistent damage output makes them better as 'latent threats' (forcing you to pay attention to what might be roaming around where), and their lower HP allows them to be dispatched a lot more quickly even in packs. So they aren't the attention whores that chaingunners are, thus work better as supplements to the horde. Edited May 7, 2018 by rdwpa 9 Share this post Link to post
EffinghamHuffnagel Posted May 8, 2018 Really liking this so far. Finally figured out that if I can't find a way into a secret, look around for a long-range GR switch. Every author has their own stylistic touches. Currently stuck on MAP07 past the Blue Key door. It looks like there's no way out without the Red Key. Which I don't have. I did an SR up the stairs to reach the Blue Key platform. I'm thinking now that was not your intent. Guess I'll clip out and go get the Red Key. 0 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, EffinghamHuffnagel said: Really liking this so far. Finally figured out that if I can't find a way into a secret, look around for a long-range GR switch. Every author has their own stylistic touches. Currently stuck on MAP07 past the Blue Key door. It looks like there's no way out without the Red Key. Which I don't have. I did an SR up the stairs to reach the Blue Key platform. I'm thinking now that was not your intent. Guess I'll clip out and go get the Red Key. That was a serious oversight on my behalf to not allow the player to exit that area. One for the fixing list but for now I'd advice anyone playing this to get both keys before proceeding forwards. Sorry, I think manage I achieve this level of derp-ness on every wad I make, return to hadron had a missing key in one the maps on lower difficulties for instance. :P Speaking of the discussion above, it would be an interesting concept to try and create layouts like the ones I have done in some UDoom maps and applying this to doom 2 with the beastary only being used sparingly alongside the UDoom monsters, kind of like a mix of some classic wads like Memento Mori coupled with the faster playstyle of the likes of Valiant. Alas this wad probably doesn't fit too cleanly into this category. Perhaps this something I could keep in mind for another time. Edited May 8, 2018 by cannonball 1 Share this post Link to post
Korozive Posted May 8, 2018 So I sat down to try a couple of maps before work and got so caught up in it I almost missed my bus. :o) Currently at the start of map 7 Prison Break and will finish this off after work. Very well done and loads of fun, thank you so much for this. \o/ 0 Share this post Link to post
Demonologist Posted May 9, 2018 Neat maps, especially towards the end. 10 is probably my favorite. And hey, a prison break map that I actually ended up liking, now that's rare. Recorded some FDAs, attaching below, the current version of the wad is included as well to make life easier for anyone who happens to care, fwiw. Thanks for sharing this work of yours, cb, will be waiting for more! ddeve1_dem_FDAs.zip 3 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted May 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Demonologist said: Neat maps, especially towards the end. 10 is probably my favorite. And hey, a prison break map that I actually ended up liking, now that's rare. Recorded some FDAs, attaching below, the current version of the wad is included as well to make life easier for anyone who happens to care, fwiw. Thanks for sharing this work of yours, cb, will be waiting for more! ddeve1_dem_FDAs.zip Great to see some demos for this set. Managed to get up to map09 before having to run some errands and then watch infinity war. I don't know whether I should be disappointed at the lack of danger you were in throughout (know I was never intending to make this set too difficult I guesss). Still these demos have given me a few ideas of where I could improve a couple of maps. I shall watch the last two later or tomorrow but thanks a lot for the feedback. 0 Share this post Link to post
zodiac Posted May 10, 2018 Done through Map04 now and loving it! My favorite part so far was the tactical play at the start of Map03 - do you go for the chainsaw or rush by, and then what do you use your rockets on? Will play through more as I have time, really looking forward to updates on this. 0 Share this post Link to post
EffinghamHuffnagel Posted May 11, 2018 MAP09, linedef tag 7. You have three different W1 linedefs to close the door, but the switch to open it is S1. Should be SR. I went back to grab ammo and got stuck. 1 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) Right here is an update So after watching a couple of streams, demos and general feedback. I have implemented various changes to some of the levels from bugfixes to adding, removing stuff to hopefully make the maps play a little better. I have played around with implementing some of the mechadon skies as well for a change of pace. I think the E1 sky works well at least. I have also implemented co-op starts and difficulty settings for the first 11 maps. ddeve1f.zip Moving forward I have already made maps 12 and 13, we will see how things progress from here. I guess I should probably focus on other projects for the time being. 1 Share this post Link to post
Demonologist Posted June 4, 2018 18 hours ago, cannonball said: I guess I should probably focus on other projects for the time being. *cough*hadrone3*cough* 0 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 11, 2018 Bumping this to make an update; Given my situation at the moment where I am realy struggling to find time for doom, I have gone through and editted the first 11 maps and packaged them as a single episode wad. Difficulty settings and co-op elements have been added. This should be the final release which I will put on idgames in the next week. FIngers crossed I will be able to find more time soon, if only to finish Hadrone3 and possibly get UDINO rolling again, but otherwise it is time to tie up a few loose ends. ddev.zip 2 Share this post Link to post
Firedust Posted October 11, 2018 Shame this won't become a full megawad. I'm sure it would've turned out amazing. Good luck with your rl stuff, mate. I shall await the release of Hadron E3 with great anticipation. 0 Share this post Link to post
EffinghamHuffnagel Posted October 12, 2018 Played through it again. Still fun. Always like your maps. Two things on MAP10 that I don't remember noticing last time. Linedef tag 20 switch - no way to open closet from the inside if lift closes behind you. You have two Blue Key doors. Both are S1 and have linedef tag 34, but only the lower one has sector tag 34. I assume the upper door is missing the tag rather than that the upper door can never be opened. Awaiting the next great adventure. 0 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) ^Good catch and these have been fixed. Idgames link now available so enjoy everyone. https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/ddev 1 Share this post Link to post
Antnee Posted October 21, 2018 These are really good. Echoing the sentiment above- I'm sad that we won't get hell stuff out of this. 0 Share this post Link to post
Martin Posted October 22, 2018 This was all in all really good, man! Great work with the gameplay! Please note this: - Map 10: - a lower texture is missing. - Map 11: - sector tag 2 looks problematic on Coop (ambush with Cyber). If booth players die after this sector raises, there is no way to enter that area again, and the map will not be finishable, however if Linedef 655 were a SR instead of a S1, this problem would be solved. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bryan T Posted October 23, 2018 This, like all your work, was great. Just rampaged my way through it. I only got lost once. I believe it was map07, I couldn't get the yellow key. Aside from that, smooth sailing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv1oLcxQ-Ow 0 Share this post Link to post