DOOM 404 - complevel 2 megawad - now on idgames!

@Summer Deep nope, it's just a remote switch.  I'm sure you'll find it if you hang around long enough.

@rdwpa I need to start using you for playtesting.  You break all the maps :)

Download link updated.  Fixed a monster closet on map 15, and made it so now rdwpa has to dance past the cyber to finish the map.  I'm sure he/she can do that, but at least know they will have to :)

Map 7 after the arachnotrons died and the pillars raise, if you fall in the middle you can't get back to the lifts again. Nothing else really standing out as problematic so far.

I'm sure I checked that, but I will have another look tonight.  Maybe I fouled something up.

Crap. Didn't notice you'd updated the wad yesterday. Just finished it. Hope my comments are still valid.

Played seasons.wad before this. Seasons is wonderfully designed, amazingly textured, complex and beautiful. I enjoyed playing Doom 404 more. Small, compact maps that open up new areas like a puzzle box. Lots of fun. I will say that secret hunting could be frustrating. Some of the hints are SO subtle. To have to notice that on a long wood/metal wall one small section has the wood grain offset by y+64; wow. Took a while to figure out to look for a slightly different texture. I had to look up a bunch of the secrets in an editor afterwards.

@ArmouredBlood mentioned MAP07. The two side pillars are exactly 32 units from the wall. Too small a space to squeeze through to get to the end lifts.

MAP18 - So you don't need the Yellow Key to open the Yellow Key door. But finding the Yellow Key is a secret? That isn't used anywhere? Odd. Did I miss someplace else the key could be used? If this weren't vanilla I'd suggest using Mapinfo. Finding the Yellow Key closes the normal exit (to MAP19A) and opens the secret exit (to MAP19B) which is exactly the same, but has a voodoo doll that gives you the Yellow Key to start and lets you open some big secret/goodie on that map. Sort of Hexen-ish. But then, I like playing continuous.

MAP21 - Two Cacos never activated in the hidden area just north of the starting room. The walls to the main area are tagged soundblock and I don't think their sector is joined to any other 'hearing' sector in the map. Not sure if I missed shooting in a particular sector which would have activated them.

MAP27 - Sector tag 5 is also tagged secret. Since it lowers to 16 units below current floor level, I actually ran over the top of it without touching/triggering the secret. I didn't find it until I came back at it from the other direction. Also wondered why map had four secrets, not three. Fourth secret can't be scored. It's the recessed wall sector around the secret opened by linedef tag 9. Inherited the tag.

Dehacked missing Level 29 name

Dehacked Level 30 name listed as 'Term'.

Good stuff. Well done.

Fixes to map 07 (the nukage pillars are tagged as lifts now, so you can lower them after they raise0, map21 (those cacos will wake when they are meant to) and map27 (secrets).  Also fixes to the missing/wrong level names in the dehacked.

@EffinghamHuffnagel - map18 is as designed.  That secret gives you the early ability to open the yellow door, as well as a radsuit, which gives you a lot of additional tactical options in tag 2 ambush.  It's actually one of my favourite secrets because the benefit it gives you is freedom :)  (if you played an early version of the wad, the western side of the yellow door didn't work: that's been fixed)

Download link updated.

Edit to add: really glad you enjoyed it!

(and yes, that woodgrain secret is very subtle, but there's a clanging great clue before that that there IS a secret around there, so I figure most people will hump that wall)

I played a bit more and got to map 23, been liking most of the maps but there were 3 I didn't particularly like. 14 has a berserk start that feels a bit shitty but I haven't been playing doom lately so it might just be trying to punch former humans between demons. 21 I just speedran, it felt too simple of a layout to bother maxing with how hard it would be with just rocket launcher vs 3 archviles and a cyber. 22 Was kinda similar in that it was just a run up to the switch, back to the key, and then trying to get back to the door. idk what happens after that but I didn't want to deal with that many demons with just a rocket launcher and ssg.

I think with the latter 2 you ran into some complexity problems with your 404 lines limit, most wads are supposed to get bigger as you go farther in but I think you should focus on keeping things a bit tighter, perhaps go the opposite way. I noticed this happening a little with 20 and especially 19, I did not appreciate the archies in the key room being able to see me easily on the long fenced upper walk, and I think you could've added a few pillars or something to break it up, but that's the challenge.

Thanks for playing!

The start of 14 is actually really easy if you just hide in a corner :)

Speed-running is a viable tactic, so I don't really have an issue with people doing that on any map.

The whole point of map22 is fighting spectres in the dark with a rocket launcher, so that much is not going to change, though specific details can.

404 lines definitely wasn't a factor in the design of map21, which actually only has 397.  So if you think there is some geometry I could add to help it, there's room to do so.  I'm not adding a Plasma, though, because I don't want dirty continuous players like me to have one on map 22 :)

Map 27 is where my journey comes to an end.  It's a fantastic mapset overall- but three archviles is way, way too much, especially on just HMP difficulty.  I threw myself at that encounter dozens of times- pretty well off on ammo and health for a change, too- and I just can't grasp how it's beatable.

Nice work on this.  Really got me thinking about how I make maps... Starting to re-evaluate what I think is important in terms of overall design.

^ I found that bit difficult as well, but not as tough as the sequence before it (with all the Pain Elementals, Lost Souls and Cacos). Did actually manage to take out the AVs after a few attempts, it helps if you've previously discovered a secret which gives access to the upper gallery, which provides you with more cover than you get out in the open in the main room.

The only part of this wad where I've had to admit defeat so far was in trying to do MAP26 from a UV pistol start. Found it absolutely impossible to survive more than about 30 seconds (even after finding the plasma rifle) - no armour, too little ammo, no real cover, Revenants and hitscanners on all sides. I respect and accept the fact that one or two people have apparently completed this map from a UV pistol start, just hope it's not logically inconsistent to say I can't see how anyone could actually manage that.

8 hours ago, Antnee said:

Map 27 is where my journey comes to an end.  It's a fantastic mapset overall- but three archviles is way, way too much, especially on just HMP difficulty.  I threw myself at that encounter dozens of times- pretty well off on ammo and health for a change, too- and I just can't grasp how it's beatable.

Hi.  Thanks for playing!  Sorry to hear you've got stuck.  Can I ask what strategies you've tried with this encounter?  Also, do you care about 100% kills?  And what secrets did you find on the map?

Map 26-27 is probably the toughest one-two punch in the mapset (and 23-27 may be the toughest overall run, though 25 gives you a break in the middle there).

2 hours ago, Summer Deep said:

I respect and accept the fact that one or two people have apparently completed this map (26) from a UV pistol start, just hope it's not logically inconsistent to say I can't see how anyone could actually manage that.

 

Hopefully once the final release is out, some of Doomworld's best speedrunners will really give every map a wrecking.  Well, probably not map01, but all the others, anyway :)

4 minutes ago, Capellan said:

Hi.  Thanks for playing!  Sorry to hear you've got stuck.  Can I ask what strategies you've tried with this encounter?  Also, do you care about 100% kills?  And what secrets did you find on the map? 

Secrets:  I'm not sure.  I came at it with more than enough of each ammo type.  Specifically, I had nearly 300 cells and a BFG.

I don't really care *too* much about 100% kills.  I usually try to go for it but don't get too hung up on it.

Strats:  Emptying the BFG into them doesn't seem to work- one of them is always out of "range" and by the time I can get to him, he's already made the room back into a massive clusterfuck.

I tried peeling them off- they're too smart for that.

And you know, just doing the typical "big horde" strats. 
 

I can't complain too hard I guess since its like one of the last levels.  It just doesn't feel doable to me.

This was my strategy with the three AVs. LOL, almost messed up after disposing of them, as I wasn't expecting to encounter that second Baron hiding inside the doorway, and it threw me into a bit of a panic....

Literally how I tried to deal with them- except they actually died when you hit them and they raised pretty much every monster in a square mile radius.

Why did that not happen in your case?

Well, I only posted a successful attempt. There were about half a dozen others where one or more of the AVs got away and created havoc. It's a lot harder to hit all three from the ground floor - as you pointed out earlier, the last one is usually too smart. It's also not a great idea to try to take out two of them from the upper gallery, as one of them usually jumps down to ground level and zaps you from there.

Insanely hard megawad but really nice. Looks beautiful on SW renderer, music sounds cool with GeneralUser GS. I will push myself to beat all levels on UV because i want all meat it has to offer.

3 hours ago, Antnee said:

I can't complain too hard I guess since its like one of the last levels.  It just doesn't feel doable to me.

I just tried it, and if you've found the secret that grants access to the "hitscanner walkways", you can run over there and use it for cover.  Two of the AVs wandered over to me and were point blank BFGed.  The last hung around the exit area and I rocketed him from a distance.  (Edit: no guarantee this is a 100% strat, but it worked first time for me)

Another option might be to literally run back to the start room and then sneak past them and beeline the exit - this is particularly effective if you've found the liteamp secret since it creates a quick route back to the exit area.

"Demesne" is certainly one of the tougher ones (I think m26 is probably the toughest in the set, though, at least from pistol-start). It's handily defused with a number of different strategies, though of course this can be hard to see when you're knocking around in it for the first time. You may find some solace, though, in this little anecdote: IIRC the first thing Adam ever said to Steve and myself about it after he first made it was something like "I'm not sure whether or not this is realistically beatable without the BFG secret." :)

So, of course, I had to try. As I also recall, I think I failed my first attempt (finding the BFG secret but refusing to pick it up for the Sake of Science) and got whacked by some rotten tomato who sneaked up on me through a side window after retreating back to the start yard to regroup and buy some time to come up with a plan for dealing with the gasbag swarm. On second attempt I was able to win by funneling said swarm into the foyer and pounding them all to death with the rockets I'd amassed and saved for just that purpose; dealing with the viles later was mainly a matter of separating them--I think I lured two of the three down the stairs to the ground level and SSG'd them to death from the safety of the connecting hallway, and then blasted the third guy with a handful of spare rockets I'd scraped up while futzing around. Having the BFG changes things, of course, and in that older version you could pretty handily steamroll the back half of the level, even with its limited ammo, provided you knew where to find it.

This current version of the level is slightly harder than that older one, for what it's worth. The BFG is no longer 'secret' but ironically is now harder to get/fuel/get into position with to just bulldoze the final waves, though you can still do it with enough stubbornness (and foreknowledge). However, there are also more rockets and healing (if you can believe it) than there used to be, which can buy some slack.

Here's a quick/very dirty skill 4 .lmp where I sort of combine what I'd consider to be the two main strategies for handling the back half:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/6eaau93b76w4wdu/doom40427_sup.lmp/file

The caveat here is that this run uses all secrets, though the only one I'd consider crucial to my strategy is the light-amp tunnel, not for the items it contains but because it gives you a second way to enter/exit the inner reaches, incredibly handy for outflanking/grouping the horde; the strategy is more or less identical for a no-secrets run, though that probably requires you to slowball through the earlier opposition with conventional ammo in order to free up more movement space through the center and also conserve rockets. In this run I save the BFG for the viles (and so end up with a lot of cell ammo left over), but this is mainly for flash/show; it's probably more efficient to use it on the gasbags, and then use the resulting rocket surplus to shell the viles into submission from any number of relatively safe positions.

10 minutes ago, Demon of the Well said:

I think I failed my first attempt (finding the BFG secret but refusing to pick it up for the Sake of Science) and got whacked by some rotten tomato who sneaked up on me through a side window

One of only two or three occasions where DotW actually died during the playtesting process (map14 definitely got him, and there may have been one other, but I wouldn't swear to it).  He's a Doom-playing robot from a post-apocalyptic future, I tells ya.

wow nice.  this mapset is pretty pleasant.  Here's a blind continuous playthrough up to Map10, where I died.  Fatsos are surprisingly sneaky

noisy_doom404.zip (about 50 mins)

There were a couple other close calls, but the Map10 omni-directional mancubus ambush was the one that did me in.

^{(edit: there was also a long pause on that map because I was getting icecream and forgot to hit ESC to time-freeze)}

Had a lot of fun with this. I understand this is still in Beta phase so I had to use my own custom music for the latter half of the maps.

Even though there wasn't anything too special added to the maps, the general feel and story felt like it added a lot of flavor and there was a great flow to the entire thing.

Have to say the last few maps got a little too out-of-hand on UV, but maybe I just need to git gud.

Highly recommend this. I also just gave it a signal boost on my Twitter page. :)

What is it with the IoS-type ending to MAP29? I've fired plenty of rockets into the 'target' above the Exit sign from both platforms, but always without the game coming to a conclusion, and I'm invariably overwhelmed by the opposition in the end. IoS endings have spoiled quite a few megawads for me, and I was hoping this one wouldn't resort to including one....

:(

I'll give you a hint: it's obviously an infinite monster-spawner setup, but it's not really an IoS setup, and it's not rockets that you need.  :)

^ Thanks, I think I can see what you mean now. I've managed to get all the lights to turn to red, but still haven't lasted long enough to get through the exit, or even find out how to get there. This is ridiculously difficult...I used to play Doom as a form of relaxation before encountering the last few maps of this wad, LOL.

Edit: finally did it - the bare statistics of 136% kills in under 7 minutes makes it sound fairly straightforward and convincing, though it was anything but that!

Glad to hear you succeeded in the end :)

8 hours ago, Terminus said:

Had a lot of fun with this.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Just a heads up to everyone that I'm going to make some changes to maps 29 and 30 over the next couple of days.  This is mainly to make a potential issue with map29 invisible to the player (though as an added bonus it also it lets me deliberately exploit certain engine rules to help differentiate map difficulty settings).  The existing version is still fully playable, mind you, I just think the new version is better. :)

I've updated maps 29 and 30 - link in OP.

Hello.

The OP specifically mentions testing in multiplayer so what better way to break the maps than have a Thursday Night Survival session through all of them?
Of course, we will appreciate a visit from the author himself as well as anyone else eager to play the wad so here's our invitation for you all!

The session starts at 19:00 BST/14:00 EDT and considering the short maps you can expect us to go through several crazy rotations with the wad and the session to be fairly active for at least around 4 hours.
 

I love these simple maps, you can't get lost.  You can get through 32 maps in a short amount of time.

It gets quite difficult, surprised me.  Much harder than zone 300.  My first death was when the 9 barons lowered from the walls.  The second was the Mancubus room where they spawn all around you.  I really don't see how someone can survive that one.  The later levels keep piling it on but by that time I was decked out, playing Guncaster.

Video if interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edgPd4pHwEI

Updated map21 and map30.  Download available at the link in the OP.

I played the latest version in Gzdoom 3.5.1 and I think the boss fight in MAP29 is broken. I'm supposed to shoot the red pentagrams and then flip switches in the small BFG corridor, which should raise the lifts (sectors 46 and 83) higher, right? Well, it doesn't work, the lifts always stay at the original level. Moreover, if I shoot the highest pentagrams (linedefs 95 or 127) with mouse aiming, Romero's head stays immune to rocket and hitscan fire. He is only vulnerable to BFG fire from one certain angle. Enabling strict Doom compatibility in Gzdoom doesn't help.