chuckphd53 Posted October 29, 2018 Hey....Old but New back into doom after 30 yrs..... I have DoomBuilder 2.1.3.10 installed and noticed on some of the youtube videos that there seems to be more controls on the taps or editing that is presented in the video. such as there are many more controls to set door open / close times / duration. I wondered if this was a different version of doombulder II or if it was an add on... Seems my version is very vanilla. While I have included a couple addons, stairs, and cut and paste items. I still see a big benefit from the in-depth control features I am seeing on these video presentations.. thanks Chuck 0 Share this post Link to post
Marlamir Posted October 29, 2018 https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=54957 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) the top bar and all the icons are that of the Doom Builder product..... that is why I am confused, Just downloaded GZDoom bulider and it looks promising..... I will take a look seems to have ALOT more.. thanks to all... will give it a try.... Chuck 0 Share this post Link to post
Kappes Buur Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, chuckphd53 said: ..... I wondered if this was a different version of doombulder II or if it was an add on... ..... thanks Chuck Indeed, yours is an ancient editor installation. Since then, this editor has been upgraded significantly . The editor was set up to incorporate a plugin system, and there are some plugins, which enhance the editing experience, not included with the public release. For example: 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted October 29, 2018 that is strange I have searched for a recent version of the Doom Builder II but could only find my current version. hence I figured it was not being developed anymore.. so I guess the GZDoom that I just downloaded is the most used and current ? also is there a link for any special 'ADD-ON's that most folks like or use ? Again apologize, it's been 30+ years since I made doom maps, but this is sooooo much better then DEU :) Appreciate the help.. 0 Share this post Link to post
Kappes Buur Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) Links to the editors are provided by clicking on the images in my tutorial :) For x32, some plugins can be found here . Some can be found at boris's github page . Also, scour the ZDOOM forum with an advanced search If you use the x64 version of GZDBBF, then use the 64ified versions of the plugins, also in the search. By the way, if you are interested, all my tutorials are linked in the Tutorials section Edited October 29, 2018 by Kappes Buur 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted October 29, 2018 Thanks...., all these quick replies are great, thanks folks.. One last question......Unrelated.... I found that making a section with 'things' is they ten to kill each other when they are woken up.... this does not make sense, kinda makes the players job easy, just excite the devils and walk away...takes the 'play' element out of the game... what am I missing.. 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted October 29, 2018 Depends on mapping format, but you mostly need "ambush"flag for monsters and some sound blocking lines. 0 Share this post Link to post
Mr.Rocket Posted October 29, 2018 Yeah, they are just "infighting", if you place a monster behind another and they are alerted by you and the monster behind hits the other with a projectile, they will start fighting each other. They've always done this, it just doesn't happen all the time. 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) Misty.... my editor GZDoom builder , under the THINGS does not have an Ambush Flag.. IS there a PlugIn to get more THING Options ? Also I read about the 'noinfighting' that can be used...but can it be built into the MAP and not the Game options , so it works for others ? and I did not find any indepth info on using the 'noinfighting' option... Learning Curves are Fun... Chuck Edited October 30, 2018 by chuckphd53 : Update: 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted October 30, 2018 What mapping format do you use?Maybe it will make more clear what are you after. 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted October 31, 2018 Now I do feel stupid.....mapping format ? 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted October 31, 2018 Like doom2 in doom format or doom 2 in gzdoom udmf. It should be written below in builder window. 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) oh...ugh......I use GZDoom editor Resources : ZDoom ( Doom in Doom format) Edited October 31, 2018 by chuckphd53 : update 0 Share this post Link to post
Bauul Posted October 31, 2018 So the editors can be a little confusing. Doom Builder was the first, but since then other people have taken the editor and made a new and improved version with a slightly different name. They go: Doom Builder 2 GZDoomBuilder GZDoomBuilder_BugFix Don't be fooled by the name, GZDB_BF (like GZDB) are for all Doom mapping, not just GZDoom. Don't worry about the whole plugin thing, most people don't use any kind of plugins. GZDB_BF comes with 99% of the features you're likely to use until you're really advanced. When Misty asked you about format, the reason is because GZDB_BF has different options and windows depending on the format you choose. There are three different elements to a Doom map: the base game (Doom 1, Doom 2, Hexen etc.), the map format (there are three: Doom (the original), Hexen (a slightly advanced version of Doom) and UDMF, which is a new and much more advanced version that only works on a few source ports), and the source port you're targeting (e.g. vanilla, Boom, GZDoom etc.). When you start making a map, you have to pick which game configuration you want. E.g. "GZDoom: Doom 2 (UDMF)" means you're targeting GZDoom as the source port, the game is Doom 2, and the map format is UDMF. As for your question about monsters fighting each other, do they instantly begin fighting, or do they like begin fighting after a while? 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted November 1, 2018 great info.... I am using GZDoom Builder V2.3.0.2787 so I believe this is the latest.... Again....and you guys have been great, so thanks for the help, my only goal is to make some maps for Doom2 but that can be played on other machines, so any features in the map would have to be included in the .WAD ( this is correct ? Hope I am thinking of this the right way !) I am a bit confused, under the GAME CONFIGURATIONS, Resources(tab) I am using the standard doom2.wad that is included with the DOOM 2 disk... Testing (tab) . Q: the engine..... should I use the standard Doom95 engine also ? also I have watched a number of youtube Doom builder videos, and found that while it looks like most are using Doom build some version of another, the Line/Thing edit windows on some, seem to have these 'extra' options to choose from. such as DELAY, MOVEMENT SPEED, etc.... that does not show up as options in this editor. As I mentioned earlier, my biggest issue in building a map is to have the dang monsters fight an kill each other, I understand 'Friendly fire' if they get in the way, but to turn on each other.... this takes away the 'players' need to kill them and hence the game play diminishes....player can just sit back and wait.....not a good game play IMO. So I am still looking for a way to keep the monsters from turning on each other...... Thanks Bauul for the insight... Chuck 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted November 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, chuckphd53 said: great info.... I am using GZDoom Builder V2.3.0.2787 so I believe this is the latest... It's old version of gzdoom builder. You need gzdoom builder bugfix for more stable mapping experience. Mostly "ambush player", sound blocking lines and some obstacles like traps can work for preventing monsters to shoot you premature way or infight. Also zdoom udmf has flag "dormant", it will stand ignoring you and you can tag(I mean put number on it) any monster and will only activate with special action line crossing or using same action pressing switch. But even after activation, monsters will infight unless you use single type of monsters, like imps or mancubus. Infighting is core of Doom gameplay, no neeed to worry about it. Also, you can just use script, what you mentioned is scripting and mostly Decorate stuff. 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted November 1, 2018 Ah good 'nugget' Single Type of monster, I will try that... also are you saying I should use GZDoom engine 3.6.0 and not the doom95 ? I looked at the Bugfix and Norton antivirus is kicking it's butt......as with other Doom files that I have to work around.....ugh.. what exactly is the bugfix all about ? thanks Misty.. 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) It's maintenance branch of old gzdoom builder, because original author left. Bugfix version is most updated one for now. It's the same one as you use it, but with most errors and problems fixed. https://devbuilds.drdteam.org/gzdbbf/ You can use ports compatible with that format. Like zdoom in udmf can use zdoom, zandronum and gzdoom as test engines. 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted November 1, 2018 Ok I will work thru this later tonight.... thanks 0 Share this post Link to post
Bauul Posted November 1, 2018 Yep Misty is spot on, GZDB_BF is the latest version. It's not the most intuitive name I know, but that's the most up to date. Also, to your question: 2 hours ago, chuckphd53 said: the Line/Thing edit windows on some, seem to have these 'extra' options to choose from. See my reply earlier: 21 hours ago, Bauul said: When Misty asked you about format, the reason is because GZDB_BF has different options and windows depending on the format you choose. There are lots of different engines to play Doom with. The original .exe doesn't work on modern PCs, so you need a more advanced version. Doom95, that you say you're using, is a pretty poor choice (it has a few very weird things about it). Crispy Doom is probably the closest thing to it, being a pure version of Doom just with higher res (plus some other options). PrBoom+ is one step higher, then you have the really advanced ports like Edge, Eternity and GZDoom, which is the most popular today. In "Game Configuration" in the GZDB_BF preferences menu you'll see all these listed, along with the game and map format (see my earlier post). If I were you, I'd try all the source ports to see which you prefer, and then make a map for that source port. On the subject of your monsters attacking each other, can you give us more information: are they literally immediately turning on each other without you even being there, or are they being hit by their fellow monsters in the firefight and turning on them in anger? The latter is perfectly fine, it's called in-fighting and is a major part of Doom gameplay. The former is a serious issue and shouldn't happen at all. Perhaps send us a video so we can see exactly? 0 Share this post Link to post
Loud Silence Posted November 1, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 7:55 PM, chuckphd53 said: it's been 30+ years since I made doom maps I didn't know Doom is THAT old :) 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted November 1, 2018 I have switched to the GZDoom engine...( the light bulb turned on finally) hey, it's been 30yrs :) as far as the monsters attacking, if I stir the nest, they will turn on each other, but as Misty mentioned, they are sometimes Mixed monsters... but now thinking back I have a nest of imps that seem to be ok with each other. So I think, as Misty alluded to, keeping the same type together should be the solution.... I understand the Friendly Fire, getting in way of each other, that makes sense... but I had a Cacodemon that was wiping out the others.... so as you mentioned it is the latter, 'fellow monsters in the firefight and turning on them in anger' good stuff...thanks... chuck just FYI I just downloaded GZDoom builder .3039 and it seems to get stuck on the BOOM: Doom even if I uncheck the resource box....hmmmm it asks for resources for BOOM...... bug ??? 0 Share this post Link to post
Misty Posted November 1, 2018 Press f6 and check what kind of formats you're checked for mapping. Also here you can link testing programs. 0 Share this post Link to post
chuckphd53 Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) its all good....sorry.....I am still getting use to the conf tabs... had to 'delete' the BOOM: resource...it's fine.... :) one other question... on the THING properties EDIT THING ..... what does the AMBUSH PLAYERS do ? and is there a doc that talks about these setting and others GOT IT...Wiki Doom had a really good writeup on the monsters activity... :) Edited November 1, 2018 by chuckphd53 : update 0 Share this post Link to post
hardcore_gamer Posted November 1, 2018 Since you guys are talking about editor pluggins do you have any recommendations for the best pluggins for gzdoom builder? I am interested but am not sure what to install. 0 Share this post Link to post
Kappes Buur Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said: Since you guys are talking about editor pluggins do you have any recommendations for the best pluggins for gzdoom builder? I am interested but am not sure what to install. plugins bundled with the editor: AutomapMode.dll BuilderEffects.dll BuilderModes.dll ColorPicker.dll CommentsPanel.dll NodesViewer.dll SoundPropagationMode.dll StairSectorBuilder.dll TagExplorer.dll TagRange.dll VisplaneExplorer.dll separate plugins: DrawText.dll HeightLevels.dll Lighting.dll MapBalancer.dll ThreeDFloorMode.dll With ThreeDFloorMode.dll the most important if you map with 3D structures in mind. 0 Share this post Link to post