The DWmegawad Club plays: Memento Mori 2

On 11/1/2018 at 10:03 AM, meapineapple said:

Nice, I've been meaning to play Memento Mori 1 & 2. I'll have to get to that this month. Will people mainly be playing the maps continuously or from a pistol start? 

So far more pistol starters, but the WAD was designed for both. For example you can collect rockets in maps with no rocket launcher (MAP05, MAP14...). From MAP22 onwards I think continuous is much easier. I do recommend trying MAP29 on pistol start, it can be brutal and overwhelming at first but finishing it is rewarding.

MAP01

My favourite first maps from the era are Plutonia's Congo and Icarus' Shuttlecraft, both somewhat atypical. This one is typical, and is fine. I think facing monsters attacking you right at the start is an improvement over seeing sergeants' backs from the first MM. You can die in the first room on UV quite easily if rushing. Favourite bits include 1. The grating/lion transparent "door" (this one was present in several MM maps, but I don't remember it there rising as slowly as here; slowly means cooler); 2. Little lava pools in the first room and in the side room with secrets; 3. Of course, the Pentagram, saying directly "it's a sequel, but look how much better looking it is!".

What I don't like are the imps behind the walls. These hidden monsters are something from '95/96 :) (even Requiem also had this). Yes, they teleport in, as Capellan said, but I if you aim for a speedy UV Max, you need to shoot them blindly and hope they die. Skipping them and killing them at the end is slower.

Rating 4/5

Recommended demo

I won't be proposing 32 demos for the entire WAD, maybe 10-15 which I find interesting.

Pacifist demo in 0:33 by Eugene Kapustin. You may try it yourself first.

7 hours ago, Summer Deep said:

So, this is a bit weird. I've been noticing while playing the first three maps of MM2 that the discovery of some secrets has been credited on the end-of-level 'scoreboard', but I'm not getting the 'A secret is revealed' notifications in game. I've looked at Galileo's playthroughs, and they're certainly showing up there. I can only think it's something to do with the sourceport I'm using (GLBoom-plus), but this hasn't been apparent before. Any clarification would be welcome. 

 

EDIT: Tried GLBoom+ (and PRBoom+) on various wads, including IWADS, and this message never seems to show up. Strange I haven't noticed that before...

 

To get the message, follow this:

Options menu > Setup > Status bar/hud > second page > "Advanced hud settings" and change "Secret areas: no" to yes. 

^ That's sorted it - many thanks!

mm202-AC

MAP02

GLBoom+ 2.5.1.5, complevel 2, UV, pistol starts, saveless

30/35 K | 9/9 I | 2/2 S | 3:13

This map isn't as strong as the one previous.

Probably the most notable thing about it is the semi-obscure progression to get the red skull.

It's just a key hunt, really, that's a little low on health for the shotgunners about.

This map is probably much easier continuous, but it wasn't very difficult from pistol start.

Overall, there isn't much to say for it.

MAP02: The Feeding Pit

100% kills, 2/2 secrets

Eminently forgettable, and over before you know it. For some reason the shotgun in the first room is marked secret, and the second is pretty hard to miss as well since you'll almost definitely shoot the trigger trying to hit a sergeant. Ammo balance is definitely slim pickings as even with the secret chaingun I had to punch a sergeant or two in the yellow key room.

MAP03

Matthias Worch takes us on a pretty fun jaunt through a brick and earth complex. Like Worch's later Requiem levels, it has a lot of miniature set pieces rather than much in the way of the more organic, free-flowing, roaming monsters approach. It doesn't feel as stop-start as some maps in this 'structured' approach can do though, probably because Worch does tend to keep his encounters bite-sized.

I also like some of the simple but occasionally not 'by the nose' progression. The need to drop down to get the switch that lowers the SSG, for instance, is one I overlooked at first, finding myself at the red door with no way through. And of course that leads to the first cacodemons of the WAD, which I definitely appreciate!

Other parts of of the map are a bit 'flick switch, kill riff raff' though, and the teleporting monsters at the "church" or "mausoleum" are a bit on the slow side at coming through. I probably left an imp or two behind there, just because I couldn't be bothered to wait.

Overall, a good change up as we got a longer, more rambling level after the short openers.

GZDoom, UV, Continuous, Mouselook, Ketchup v5 gore

MAP01

Quite a memorable opening scene with the hellish architecture, pentagram skylight and the horde of hitscanners facing you. Reasonably action-packed for a map one with several demons and chaingunners already making an appearance, some of those chaingunners got a few hits in, particularly the one in the elevated cubby opposite the exit door. Some of the textures didn't fit the hellish theme, particularly the lowering secret wall after the yellow door, that's a bizarre texture choice for this map. 

MAP02

My god, what a downgrade from the previous map! Pretty ugly visually, with a mish-mash of textures that don't flow together. There is just no visual coherence in this map. We've got those grey brick things in the the chaingun and blue key rooms, then the acres of marble, then steel paneling, then some pattern thing. Those grey bricks don't flow with the doom texture set, it looks low res and cartoony and just doesn't fit in this particular context. The gameplay was lame, with small smatterings of imps and shotgunners infront of you in mostly corridors and small rooms. I spent a good amount of time wondering how the fuck to open the door to the red key, running back and forth, humping walls and objects, then eventually I found it open. Huh? The blue key room was another oddity, we have half a dozen pinkies roaming freely, then another pinky trapped in the blue key alcove. The two secrets are derp... one is  shotgun in plain sight in the starting room and then a wall lowering right before your eyes as you walk into a room revealing a chaingun. And finally, that yellow key trick can get fucked. 

MAP03

Much bigger than the last 2 maps. This is a brick and earth complex with a church featuring a pair of crypts in its basement. I like the view out to the SSG chamber at the start, and well overall visually this is pretty nice. There's earthen and brick construction to oppressive mouldy green where one can assume water is seeping through the rock/brick giving the atmosphere of a damp underground chamber forgotten by humanity. Most of the challenge came from deviously placed chaingunners, especially at the start. The blue key trap was clever in its simplicity, I actually lost a fair chunk of health there. Don't think we needed the repeat though. I missed the SSG until I almost finished the map, just did not think to jump down onto the ledge. As I reached the exit, I realised there were still some 30 monsters left, so I ran around looking for nooks and crannies and found myself in the crypts under the church with ominous growling and breathing. Nice! Each has a switch which releases some monsters, but after clearing out both areas, I could still hear growling, not knowing where it's coming from. Looked around some more, but couldn't find anything, so left with 9 monsters alive. Fell into the nukage at the end trying to kill an  imp but luckily it is escapable. Pretty good overall, I liked this. 

MAP02

Not much to say, the author got MAP02 slot again (after MM) and did something very short. I'm one of those who find it visually good, with "meh" gameplay. The only challenge I can think of is to finish the map reality-style, no damage taken. This requires luck at the red key (4 sergeants on UV, either not aggressive or missing their shots) and at the yellow key (easy to lose health due to a pain sector).

Rating 3/5 (I don't dislike it due to the size and 2/5 is reserved for the only map in the set which I dislike)

MAP03: Things start to get more complex here. This is a very fun adventure in an underground dungeon full of little traps, changing areas and switches to use. The SSG cave looks nice in its classic brownness, but the standout area is the church with the crypts and the stained glass windows. This is one of my favourite levels of the wad.

GZDoom/ZDoom handles in a weird way some triggers, it's possible to press the switch in the church without having to go into the lateral crypts, in one of the crypts some closets with monsters won't always open, and you can avoid to raise the lifts on the nukage pit before the exit.

I was a little late for the party.
PrBoom+, HMP, continuous play.

MAP01:
The beginning of this map has a reference to MM1 and it's obvious. I think the sky depicts the events that take place on TITLEPIC.
Cage-door effect was cool especially for 1996. Pinkies can't reach me because of skull pillars. The secrets is easy to find, still I miss one.

MAP02:
That place is probably depict some torture chambers.
Not sure what is triggered door which leads to "pillars" area. The hurry for the red key cost me a life. Also almost died at yellow key pit, that's a neat trap.
Finished map with 50% of health. I think I have neither the patience nor the nerves to properly play Doom pwads, even on HMP.

MAP03:
Seems we going to underground caves and tombs. Things get better now, I just should play more often. Though I really need armor now.
Pinkies inside the pit are zero-heighted me, I've just need to climb down ladders carefully rather than jump relentlessly.
I thought that SSG was a secret one, but luckily no.
The teleporting ambush inside the "chapel" so-so obvious. Skipped last two imps.

Also I've made quick DEH patch which shows map names on automap (for PrBoom+, ZDoom...), because playing megawads with standard Doom map names is quite annoying.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/509kk731zgps1cu/MM2.DEH

MAP03: ... And Hell Beneath

I find the title kind of dramatic with the ellipsis, while the map is quite simplistic. This is common in 90's wads, probably many other chill maps were named like this but I can't remember at the moment. And the music starts funny on opl3. Anyway, I liked it, nice incidental traps and less abusive hitscanners, a thing we pistol starters should appreciate while we can. The two morgues(?) are the highlights in terms of cramped combat, nothing demanding but zombies coming out of crates is a sort of DoomCute thing. There is a weird thing with the switches I found while recording, because of the need to be fast and furious and some switches just wouldn't work the first time I press "use", that instead do something else like trigger a closet of monsters. Perhaps it's a specific setup for switches, that one has to stand extremely close or it won't do anything. Whatever, design wise I feel this is a good/acceptable "just corridors" map that keeps it chill with low meat count, albeit a load of pinkies/spectres which are mere sponges for the SG/CG. Nice colour combinations too, red/green/brown looks good in my eyes regardless of the mishmash of textures, which I found more coherent in this map. I noticed the first corridor seemed familiar this time, interesting to find out the concept was later replicated in Hell Revealed 2, though more brown than anything. Overall, approved.

One unreachable item makes the tally look incomplete, ugh :S

48 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

One unreachable item makes the tally look incomplete, ugh :S

Oh man, I thought I was the only one who cared about that kind of thing. Was it really so hard to apply a "multiplayer only" flag back in the day? That's not just me being sassy because for all I know it may actually have been pretty hard back then I have no idea.

2 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

Oh man, I thought I was the only one who cared about that kind of thing. Was it really so hard to apply a "multiplayer only" flag back in the day? That's not just me being sassy because for all I know it may actually have been pretty hard back then I have no idea.

It was dead easy to apply the flag.  What was more often missing was either a thorough understanding of what exactly counted for the % count, and/or a consideration for people who wanted to always 100% items, which was not generally a thing then.

MAP04

Man, I'd forgotten how much I liked MM2's textures. Does anyone know if they're available for use? I couldn't see a clear statement in the text file.  I guess you could always release a map that's only playable with MM2.WAD loaded, as a workaround, if they're not redistributable.

In any case, Florian puts them to good effect here, in this sprawling, keyless traverse through mouldy ruins and hellish caverns. It starts a bit linearly since there is only one way to go to begin with, but once you've cleared that out you have three different options (I basically just went clockwise). I like how many of the subsections look into each other, and even open up new closets in zones you may already have explored so you have to engage monsters across those views.

I also enjoyed spotting and getting the 'tower leap' secret, though in the final analysis I don't think the rewards down there are really worth it. I guess if you hadn't found either of the other green armours before that it would impress more.

On the down side, there are some progression issues: the switch to exit the first section and open the other three 'wings', for instance, is pretty close to a secret. Why not simply make the switch visible? Or there's the hell knight church, where the visual clue is that one window is slightly darker than the other. At least that's a small section though, so wallhumping it wouldn't take long.

I played the shit out of this when it came out. And I still love it, every moment, but it's just the nostalgia. Nothing will ever replicate that end-of-nighties Doom 2 feeling. Please keep the little nostalgic tidbits coming, I am really happy to read those.

I was never in contact with anyone from the Memento Mori 2 team, but if anyone of you guys might read this - THANK YOU :)

31 minutes ago, Capellan said:

Man, I'd forgotten how much I liked MM2's textures. Does anyone know if they're available for use? I couldn't see a clear statement in the text file.

Jimmy used many of them for Jenesis, particularly in the third episode. Unfortunately, I have no idea if he had to ask permission or simply credit the authors. 

MAP03:  Some fairly tough stuff here. The treacherous ambushes by chaingunners and demons surpass those of map 01 in their intensity by a considerable margin. The Hell Knights in the chapel had me in some trouble due to the narrow confines, as did the one at the end of the level, and I also underestimated the four Cacodemons in the red key room, who became a threat when backed up by a couple of sergeants moving in behind them, an encounter which left me at 6% health. I also died for the first time here when trying to strafe run across the slime pool beyond the red door and, needless to say, falling in. I'd obviously missed a switch, and couldn't get out of there. And still no bloody armour, what's going on here?.

This was a complex map. Lots of switches to press or shoot, and I hadn't much idea what some of them did (still don't). What was that large rising structure operated by the switch in the red key room all about? And what did the shootable skull switch near the starting area do? One of them probably created the walkway across the slime pool, I'd guess.

100% kills, 2/5 secrets

MAP04:  What a great map! Bit of a pointless gimmick at the start with those rising columns, but the rest is really gruelling, all-action stuff in a well designed level with some memorable settings. One recalls the steep, chaotically arranged steps with the imps and chaingunners at the top (what must that have been like pre-mouselook?), the chaingunners in the chapel and the cacos at the bottom of the lift-trap, among many other highlights. I died a couple of times in ridiculous circumstances, once while checking out the Green Soldier's grave and finding myself face to face with a Baron on returning to the surface, then after going back to the crusher area to top up my health with some stimpacks (no prizes for working out what happened). Nevertheless, thought I did pretty well on this one, but where were the 14% of monsters who remained unaccounted for by the end?

And who is Duck Nukem?

86% kills, 1/2 secrets

MM2 is one of those famous wads I've often started but never finished, so this month seems like a good excuse to play the whole thing for once. Because I've played the first (I'm not sure how many) maps several times before, I'll be playing with Xaser's Argent mod on GZDoom this time around. Partly because it doesn't change the fundamental gameplay too much, but mostly because I want to play the mod with a mapset that throws backpacks your way on a regular basis. (The joke might be on me if MM2 is tight-fisted with them.)

My first impression is how much better the sequel looks compared to (my hazy recollection of) the original.

It's very short and snappy, but none the less satisfying. Which makes me wonder if Erik Alm drew any inspiration from this. Armor is scarse, which gives the enemies a little more bite than usual, and gameplay seems balanced to just push you slightly out of your comfort zone. As openers go, this seems very well judged. In summary, small but perfectly formed.

10 minutes ago, Summer Deep said:

One recalls the steep, chaotically arranged steps with the imps and chaingunners at the top (what must that have been like pre-mouselook?)

If you mean without the ability to look up and down, that's how I always play Doom :)  You basically just scamper up as fast as you can.  There's a bit of health as you go up, and quite a lot not long after, so it is manageable enough.

MAP03 - “… And Hell Beneath” by Matthias Worch

So this is the first "real map", so to speak, that doesn't take a few minutes to finish. Some areas of interest are the chapel, pictured above, and the red key area after grabbing the SSG. Interestingly enough, I couldn't flip the central switch in the chapel from below before fully raising the platforms and walking right up to it. I remember it working in GZDoom though. There's another peculiar switch near the red key that closes the blood pit that Cacos fly out of. Not sure what the purpose is there, as all it seems to do is lock you out of getting 100% kills since those Cacos don't get crushed. Nice to finally grab the SSG too, since using the single barrel on two Hell Knights wasn't the pinnacle of fun. I also ended up missing the two turret Chaingunners in the crypt with all the Pinkies and Spectres. Kind of easy to just walk past them if you go straight for the switch that opens up. The secrets are all of the wallhump variety, and provide minor health or ammo. Great midi though, one of the best in the wad from what I remember.

Another short, fun map, with nothing too hard to puzzle out.

I'm not sure if there is an inescapable death pit in the red key room. There looks like there might be an escape hatch at the bottom, but it didn't yield to my frantic attempts. Armor is once again scarse, which renders the ambush there more deadly, and potentionally lethal if panic ensues. That, along with a few other oddities (such as the free secret at the start,) make this map feel very much a product of it's time. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, since the anachronisms here have an inventive charm that give the map character.

No backpack yet...

MAP03

GLBoom+ 2.5.1.5, complevel 2, UV, pistol starts, saveless

mm203-AC

I didn't like writing the stats so I stopped.

This map has a lot more substance than the ones previous.

It's a key hunt, but there's so much more content that it doesn't feel like it's stretching the map artificially.

Gameplay's a bit more on point, here, than before, but still very easy, as befitting an earlier map.

I missed all the secrets, but that didn't matter because there was way more than enough ammo to kill everything.

The aesthetic is nice, but it's a little too consistent for me.

MAP04 - “Ratamahatta” by Florian Helmberger

Four underground passages to take, three of which can be done in the order of your choosing. I always do the right side first, although getting the backpack from the left is probably a good idea for continuous ammo hoarders. The passages are quite dark in Software mode and surprise Spectres biting your face is likely the biggest challenge. The optional area leading to the Berserk is also quite cool. Duck Nukem and Green Marine get their own tombstones. My respects.

MAP03: … And Hell Beneath

94% kills, 1/5 secrets

This one was pretty tough, being stuck against a lot of hitscanners in tight settings with no armor. The reall wall for me was the catacomb section where I ran out of shotgun ammo, though the first attempt was probably unintended by the author since I hit the switch before creating the lift to get to it (not aware of infinite height shenanigans by '96? Shame). What did work was heading all the way back to where the blue key originally was to grab that chaingun, though I possibly could've held on a bit longer to grab one from the guys in the tombs. Either way, it's quite easy to get chunked, especially by guys refilling spots you've already been and catching you by surprise. Overall the layout reminds me a lot of the "Doom as a DnD campaign" approach, as it's a fairly linear path that feels like a dungeon crawl with the way the encounters are parceled out. Aesthetically it's alright, there's some attempts at lighting and some good mix of textures, but in the end it starts to drift too much into "everything is brown" territory.

Ah, this is a Matthias Worch map... makes sense with the lack of armor now, and the start of the map feels pretty similiar to Requiem MAP09/Troopers Playground MAP06 with the cramped staircase building and switch-hittery.

19 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

MAP03: ... And Hell Beneath

There is a weird thing with the switches I found while recording, because of the need to be fast and furious and some switches just wouldn't work the first time I press "use", that instead do something else like trigger a closet of monsters. Perhaps it's a specific setup for switches, that one has to stand extremely close or it won't do anything.

 

The Moellers and Matthias made plenty of "two-purpose" switches in 24-unit alcoves. One action is triggered by a walkover linedef when the player walks into the alcove and another action by pressing the switch. Thus, you may open the door and, without realizing, change the lighting of an area. The drawback is, sometimes weird things happen if you step next to the switch (entering the alcove) and not press it... I will discuss it on MAP22 if I don't forget. On MAP03 one example is the corridor with tombs, walking in releases 6 chaingunners on UV and pressing the switch raises the chapel lift by 32 units.

Also, good catch with this HR2 replica (MAP16 if I remember).

15 hours ago, Summer Deep said:

What was that large rising structure operated by the switch in the red key room all about? And what did the shootable skull switch near the starting area do?

 

It's in the MM2.txt. Several scouts have been sent into it and reported that the whole structure seems to have been built around a large cave, containing a deep pool of blood. From its ground evil laughter and more unnatural sounds can be heard.

And your mission is to "close the pool". Ignoring the story, for 100% kills it's best to step into the switch (24-unit alcove) and not press it (not close the pool). Stepping into the switch gives easier access to the exit, without doing it you will need to strafejump over the last pit.

Shootable switch opens access to teleporter pad that leads to the ledge in front of the RK door.

6 hours ago, Magnusblitz said:

MAP03: … And Hell Beneath

though the first attempt was probably unintended by the author since I hit the switch before creating the lift to get to it (not aware of infinite height shenanigans by '96? Shame).

In vanilla you can't do this, I'm sure. No UV speed demo makes use of it, and some much more advanced tricks were discovered (see below).

MAP03

This is my favourite Matthias Worch map. I think MAP03/MAP04 slot are perfect for him, as he loves shotgun/chaingun gameplay, tight ammo, no armor, no backpack, etc. Heavy weaponry is rarely seen in his maps.

It is also Matthias best MM2 map in terms of bugs. There's plenty of non-critical little quirks letting the player ignore the intended traps or progression on MAP10/14/18, especially involving the keys. On MAP03 there's just two shortcuts, and far from obvious, so I can't really blame him.

First, the shootable switch at the start. You can stand next to it, hoping the chaingunners will miss and shoot the switch instead. This can be seen in only one demo, 3:47 UV Speed by Radek Pecka. Why only one? This trick doesn't save much time and became obsolete when another trick was discovered.

A strafe 50 jump from the highest platform to the red door is possible, thus skipping the yellow key. This is difficult, it is very probable that infinitely tall monsters will block the player. The trick is used in 3:00, 2:52 and 2:40 UV Speed demos and was discovered by Sergei Kapustin.

And yes, the big and deep cave impressed me a lot when I first saw it. Apart from this, there is some cute corridor running and shooting, great map.

Rating 5/5

MAP04
As I understand it, 4 lifts at the beginning are designed for cooperative starts. In this map there are some hints and references to Ultimate Doom, such as for example a series of crushers and a secret between them, Easter egg "NIN" from potions and a cave with lava in the spirit of Perfect Hatred.
Finally, there are body armor. Chaingunner on a steep red stone staircase is very dangerous if you play without a Mouselook (like me).

Near of "Duck Nukem", grave I jumped to the other side and found myself in a untextured pit with imps that clawed me to death. Maybe I should not be there ahead of time, or this is just a bug.

An interesting map conception, where instead of searching for keys, the player must perform certain tasks and return to the main hub.

MM2 is the my second favorite 90s mapset, only a step below Eternal Doom. My first playthrough of MM2 was through Co-op, so interesting to hear that the vision for this one is more Sp focused.

Btw @dobu gabu maru, Andy Olivera wrote a review for this too.

MAP01 - “Outpost” by Denis Möller

Möller serves up an opener the only way he knows how: drenched in gallons of low-tier monster blood! As implied, the map has a very typical Map01-ish monster composition, but manages to maintain a blistering pace and a consistent challenge throughout due to the player being exposed most of the time. MM2's introduction to it's new textures is simply stunning, from the rad bloodstained glass (which also is a cool homage to MM1's Map01) to the new gate texture and the morbidly charming skull strips. Lighting also played a huge part in making the new resources pop (look no further than the exit area!). A overran fort in the depths of hell has never look so attractive..

MM2 quickly asserts it's beautifully nightmarish crimson aesthetic, while Denis Möller makes a role model for easy peasy starting maps.

Some screenies:

MAP04: I guess that this one is very fun on coop, each player can tackle different routes at the same time. It has also a very cool concept without using any key. There's a nice aesthetic of red, grey and green that changes many times. The rather psychedelic song goes very well with this map.

MAP04: Like Urthar, I've gone through the first few maps of this several times so this is the first one that's completely new to me. And it's really harsh in how it forces you to choose between a computer map, armor, and a backpack. I got the map for the sake of 100% items but now I'm wishing I'd chosen the backpack instead, because even though it was my first time playing the map there's nothing I could have learned that wasn't already on the wiki or Youtube or DSDA or etc.

I think I can guess which one Urthar will choose.

MAP04: Ratamahatta

So obviously I did not read anything in the text file like I should have, there's a whole charming story for the maps. It's interesting how mappers of two decades ago put effort into creating a background that gives each level a purpose, in this case the marine was sent to backup Duck Nukem who died miserably. Better for me to ignore the pun because I haven't played Duke Nukem 3D, and there isn't much in memory about the first two. Anyway, not much to say that others didn't already, it's a fun journey through caves in a sort of UDoom fashion besides commandos and hell knights. Highlight is basically how well crafted is the gameplay imo, smooth progression, no awkward geometry, fights are straightforward with a few climactic traps involved (telepad chain, triple caco attack and sergeants on the way back, surprise baron who was awaiting for the green marine). I liked that you can tackle the cacos from the back and cut off some unnecessary backtrack, though maybe a little rude, poor cacos. Finally, the backpack/armor/computer is one of those rare decision times that could bug first timers like me in 2017, the pressure to choose the best item and deal with it for the rest of the map. Backpack is the ideal for continuous, while armor from pistol start in case one missed the secret. Computer map isn't of any necessity since the map is linear and the secrets are easy to spot. I got the backpack because #YayBackpacks. 

Gorgeous spooky midi btw.

6 hours ago, vdgg said:

In vanilla you can't do this, I'm sure. No UV speed demo makes use of it, and some much more advanced tricks were discovered (see below).

Ahhh you're right, in vanilla it gets blocked by the action lines in front of it, so you need to raise the lift first so you can actually walk past the line in front and hit the switch.