TeamTNT

If Mustaine is still active in the Doom scene, is there any chance ofr Hell to Pay and Perdition's Gate to be released for free now?

2 hours ago, guitardz said:

Very true.  I wonder what the Casali's would make now if they still made Doom maps.

 

So, what I'm hearing is there is unreleased TNT content...yes?

The only one I can think of that Skillsaw was mentioned in is Paul Fleschute's Invasion 3, discussed at the end of Invasion II's .TXT

8 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

So that's why there were references to the Wraith megawads in that one example map made to demonstrate the addition of classic resources. (source)

That's a cool Easter Egg!

10 hours ago, KVELLER said:

 

Shouldn't this stuff be in the wiki?

Absolutely.

On 11/26/2018 at 9:48 AM, gaspe said:

infamous?

Absolutely. TeamTNT made Boom, and then Lee Killough took Boom and made MBF. Boom and MBF introduced the concept of limit removal, fixed many vanilla bugs and added tons of new functionality. Boom and MBF code are at the heart of many of today's source ports. TeamTNT also made a bunch of good map PWADs and IWADs.

So, yeah, infamous, important, and appreciated. TeamTNT kicked all kinds of ass.

25 minutes ago, kb1 said:

So, yeah, infamous, important, and appreciated. TeamTNT kicked all kinds of ass.

infamous

/ˈɪnfəməs/

adjective

well known for some bad quality or deed.

wicked; abominable.

It means kind of the opposite of appreciated :)

I find the use of the word infamous weird in the OP really, one questionable deed VS an absolute laundry list of important achievements and innovations for the community =/= infamous. Hardly anyone even remembers that there was controversy surrounding final Doom, that’s how inconsequential it was in the long run.

4 hours ago, Gothic said:

If Mustaine is still active in the Doom scene, is there any chance ofr Hell to Pay and Perdition's Gate to be released for free now?

Not sure about Hell to Pay, but Perdition's Gate has been available for a while:

http://www.mustaine.com/about/video-game-work/perditions-gate/

"questionable deed" god forbid anyone make money also if teamtnt hadn't had gone pro we probably wouldnt have got plutonia

5 minutes ago, Marcaek said:

"questionable deed" god forbid anyone make money also if teamtnt hadn't had gone pro we probably wouldnt have got plutonia

dammit marc don’t be pedantic you know what I meant, there was only one “controversy”. I agree totally that it was for the best that Final Doom ended up a commercial product, people getting butt hurt about it back in 94 is nothing more than an amusing footnote in Doom history at this point

3 hours ago, Capellan said:

 

infamous

/ˈɪnfəməs/

adjective

well known for some bad quality or deed.

wicked; abominable.

 

It means kind of the opposite of appreciated :)

Damn - I learned something today. I thought it just meant someone that had become famous because of their deeds. I never knew that those deeds had to be bad to call someone "infamous". I think I'll edit that post now...

Sorry, dbl post.

I'm not upset that TeamTNT were able to make some money off of their WADs - hell yeah, good for them. In fact, I'd like to pay a team to produce a fun, beautiful map set with some custom resources. Mappers produce art, just like artists, actors/actresses, musicians. It's fair for them to get compensated.

I know that, to the community, Doom stuff has traditionally been free to everyone, which is very cool. But, if a mapper has no job, sending the mapper a few bucks to pay the internet provider seems fair to me, if the quality is there. Why not?

I realize this is a touchy subject for people, as it has come up before, so just consider this post as my personal opinion and vote.

I mean, if John Romero called me up, and wanted to give me and my team some cash for some WADs, I think most teams would jump on that opportunity. I'm sure TeamTNT was honored by such a phone call.

Would you say "No, John - it's not fair to give us money and sell our WAD. There's the door."? Of course not. All that rage? Seriously? Some folks will turn anything into a conspiracy.

It was Boom that inspired me to begin Doom modding. TeamTNT gets my vote every time. Who else knows that TeamTNT kicks some serious ass?

18 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

dammit marc don’t be pedantic you know what I meant, there was only one “controversy”. I agree totally that it was for the best that Final Doom ended up a commercial product, people getting butt hurt about it back in 94 is nothing more than an amusing footnote in Doom history at this point

You said it, man. Thank you!  "Boo hoo, I didn't get a fat check for my maps :(  It's not fair? (sob sob) TeamTNT sucks. I want my mommy." Pathetic.

35 minutes ago, kb1 said:

I'm not upset that TeamTNT were able to make some money off of their WADs - hell yeah, good for them. In fact, I'd like to pay a team to produce a fun, beautiful map set with some custom resources. Mappers produce art, just like artists, actors/actresses, musicians. It's fair for them to get compensated.

I don't think anyone is against moodders/mappers being able to make money off their work to create something great, but I believe the actual controversy involving Team TNT and Final Doom was that Evilution had been in production as a free WAD for a long time and a lot of people were looking forward to it.  Then shortly before it was set to release they said "Oh, it isn't coming out yet, and it will be a commercial product." and that just rubbed a lot of people in the community wrong.

I wasn't in the community at the time so I can't say how I'd have reacted.  I was never really annoyed by Skyrim paid mods or creation club when those became a thing, so it's likely I probably wouldn't have cared, but I understand why a lot of people did.

On 11/27/2018 at 9:54 AM, Nancsi said:

The only ones I know are Sverre Kvernmo (never was a fan of his style),

To me, his Darkdome (Eternal MAP12) was one of the best maps in the vanilla era. Nucleus and Time Gate were great too.

9 hours ago, amackert said:

 

Not sure about Hell to Pay, but Perdition's Gate has been available for a while:

 

http://www.mustaine.com/about/video-game-work/perditions-gate/

A while back I took this and prepared a ZIP for uploading to /idgames, and emailed Tom Mustaine to get his approval for me to make the upload, but he never replied.

9 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I find the use of the word infamous weird in the OP really, one questionable deed VS an absolute laundry list of important achievements and innovations for the community =/= infamous. Hardly anyone even remembers that there was controversy surrounding final Doom, that’s how inconsequential it was in the long run.

I don't find it weird, just because I find that "infamous" is one of those words that a lot of people use without actually understanding it (see, for instance, @kb1 just a bit further down the thread).  I don't think @Saad356 intended a diss so much as just not realizing that there's a difference between "famous" and "infamous".

12 hours ago, amackert said:

 

Not sure about Hell to Pay, but Perdition's Gate has been available for a while:

 

http://www.mustaine.com/about/video-game-work/perditions-gate/

There is a download link of the full version of Hell to Pay on the front page of Andy's website, the ISO file has the WAD file (HTP-RAW.WAD) and the intro that can be played back with DOSBox. That Perdition's Gate download link on Mustaine's page is hosted on Andy's website too.

http://www.visionsofdoom.us/

13 hours ago, guitardz said:

I don't think anyone is against moodders/mappers being able to make money off their work to create something great, but I believe the actual controversy involving Team TNT and Final Doom was that Evilution had been in production as a free WAD for a long time and a lot of people were looking forward to it.  Then shortly before it was set to release they said "Oh, it isn't coming out yet, and it will be a commercial product." and that just rubbed a lot of people in the community wrong.

Ah, the ol' Bait & Switch: "Hey everyone, we're getting ready to release our WAD...Sike!"

But, honestly, in '94, who would refuse a request from "The Rock Stars" to include your WAD in Final Doom, with or without being paid? I can't blame them.

23 minutes ago, kb1 said:

Ah, the ol' Bait & Switch: "Hey everyone, we're getting ready to release our WAD...Sike!"

 

But, honestly, in '94, who would refuse a request from "The Rock Stars" to include your WAD in Final Doom, with or without being paid? I can't blame them.

According to an interview with Ty, John Romero contacted him about 4.5 hours before Evilution was supposed to be released. 

I joined TeamTNT in November of '95 to work on Icarus, which from it's inception was to be a "mea culpa" to the community for the furor caused over having pulled Evilution. 

Interview here:

https://5years.doomworld.com/interviews/tyhalderman/

4 minutes ago, JDoyle said:

According to an interview with Ty, John Romero contacted him about 4.5 hours before Evilution was supposed to be released. 

I joined TeamTNT in November of '95 to work on Icarus, which from it's inception was to be a "mea culpa" to the community for the furor caused over having pulled Evilution. 

 

Interview here:

https://5years.doomworld.com/interviews/tyhalderman/

I wonder if Ty made the decision on his own or if he had to say "Wait, let me talk to the rest of the team first."

1 hour ago, kb1 said:

Ah, the ol' Bait & Switch: "Hey everyone, we're getting ready to release our WAD...Sike!"

 

But, honestly, in '94, who would refuse a request from "The Rock Stars" to include your WAD in Final Doom, with or without being paid? I can't blame them.

It was late 1995, for the record :)

I recall the announcement of MM2 having some wording to the effect of "Best of all MM2 will be 100% free" as a direct outcome of this.

7 hours ago, JDoyle said:

According to an interview with Ty, John Romero contacted him about 4.5 hours before Evilution was supposed to be released. 

I joined TeamTNT in November of '95 to work on Icarus, which from it's inception was to be a "mea culpa" to the community for the furor caused over having pulled Evilution. 

 

Interview here:

https://5years.doomworld.com/interviews/tyhalderman/

Wow, you joined right after the disaster - interesting! Thanks for the link, the interview pretty much tells it all.

Oh god why TF did I write infamous on the post

I wasn’t even born when TNT was released 

or when Boom was released

Heck,ZDOOM came out when I was 2 years old(2005) 

So to say when I wrote this post I forgot about the great boom sourceport

(I am really sorry if anyone got hurt by my post)

On 11/27/2018 at 10:11 AM, KVELLER said:

 

Shouldn't this stuff be in the wiki?

Wish no longer:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/TeamTNT/List_of_members

1 hour ago, Saad356 said:

Heck,ZDOOM came out when I was 2 years old(2005) 

Actually, ZDoom is older than Boom by six weeks, and ZDoom came to support Boom-compatible maps in December of '98.

Quote

[ZDoom] Initial release : 1.11 (1998-03-06, 20 years ago)

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/ZDoom

Quote

[Boom] Initial release : 2.00 (1998-04-17, 20 years ago)

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Boom

Quote

 

1.16 (December 22)

[...]

Proper support for Boom maps.

https://zdoom.org/wiki/ZDoom_version_history

It's possible that ZDoom was really put on the map by KDIZD, which came along in 2005 and took advantage of many of its available features at the time.

30 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

It's possible that ZDoom was really put on the map by KDIZD, which came along in 2005 and took advantage of many of its available features at the time.

I think it was 5 years of Doom in 1998 that raised ZDoom's profile, it was how I first heard about it at least.

The "Phase 1 Beta Release" of Boom (attached) was dated 31-Mar-1998 in the README file; the file-stamps in the zip are 1-Apr-1998. My local copy of the zip is dated 3-Apr-1998, which is presumably the date I downloaded it.

I think what really propelled Zdoom to "dominant port" status was when TeamTNT discontinued Boom development and basically told everyone that Zdoom could pretty much be viewed as the successor to it (and would be used for future TeamTNT projects - on 20-Mar-1999). That created major headwinds for ports based on the Boom source code.

boombet0.zip

7 hours ago, Quasar said:

Wish no longer:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/TeamTNT/List_of_members

Thanks, Quasar - looks good.

8 hours ago, Grazza said:

The "Phase 1 Beta Release" of Boom (attached) was dated 31-Mar-1998 in the README file; the file-stamps in the zip are 1-Apr-1998. My local copy of the zip is dated 3-Apr-1998, which is presumably the date I downloaded it.

The first official BOOM beta was released to beta testers on March 3rd, 1998. So that lines up very closely and would make sense for a public beta around the end of that month.

5 hours ago, Linguica said:

 

I was firing up the ole banhammer for extreme underagedness but then I realized people born in 2003 will be getting drivers' licenses soon goddamn.

hehe lol

On 11/29/2018 at 8:24 AM, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

 Actually, ZDoom is older than Boom by six weeks,

Given their statuses today that PRBoom+ is the more "classic" choice and (G)ZDoom is the more "advanced" choice, it's one of those slightly unexpected tid-bits that ZDoom is actually the older port. I suspect most people who weren't around at the time would suspect the opposite is true.

Even more so that Chocolate Doom came years later, and Crispy Doom was only a few years ago. It seems an unexpected lineage given their proximity to vanilla Doom.