SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

13 minutes ago, The-Heretic-Assassin said:

I mean that he shouldn't be credited as the one who brought Doom into this world, but rather the whole team with him included.

Nobody has said that. Saying he's the only creator is obviously wrong, but saying he's one of the creators of Doom is actually correct (and it can be phrased as "Doom creator John Romero", maybe a headline with similar wording triggered you?). Only a fool would think that he's the only person behind Doom and of course John himself doesn't think that: https://rome.ro/news/2018/12/10/reflections-on-dooms-development

So, nobody mentioned this?

Looks like I'm late. Kill me, heh.

On 12/9/2018 at 3:37 PM, Dark Pulse said:

Doom definitely wasn't the all-Romero job some people rosetint it to be - I'd argue John Carmack is the biggest single key to Doom. Romero helped out quite a bit of course, but without Carmack's technical genius, it'd hardly have been the cult phenomenon it became.

...

I don't think it's a battle Romero would win if we were being truly fair and unbiased.

No, no. Romero is who made the game fun. 3D engine - big woop, without the awesome game being hosted behind it. You can't pick it apart and judge each component, because it's nothing without the engine, the sound effects, the music, the art, and the gameplay. The whole thing crumbles without every piece of it. Romero earned his stripes, as did all of the key members of id. How quickly we forget.

What I want to know is: Will the universe let Romero do what he does best?

Romero is the only one from the original team who still gives a shit about the game after two and a half decades. He is also sorta-kinda active in our community. That makes him alright in my book. White knighting for Carmack et al will never get senpai to notice you. 

^ Really. Romero is still in touch with Doom and fans. Other id-guys just developed, released game, took money and said bye.

https://www.romerogames.ie/sigil/

I understand this PWAD is designed only for ZDoom-based source ports, the ones with the proper MAPINFO support in order to define a custom level progression.

A megawad is a wad made up of other wads, and a wad is a default file format for DOOM® and DOOM II®. It stands for “where’s all the data?” The free version of the SIGIL wad contains several wads that deliver the levels. In the SIGIL fan boxes, we also include Buckethead’s amazing music. To make it work, you basically drag the SIGIL.WAD file onto gzdoom.exe (or gzdoom.app on a Mac). Sigil’s numbering scheme is E5Mx where “x” is the level number 1-9. Episode Five, just after Episode Four: Thy Flesh Consumed. To play SIGIL, you must have the registered DOOM.WAD as well.

Also, it seems there are no 18 maps, but actually 9 maps with support for both single player / cooperative and deathmatch (in a separate area in the style of Plutonia MAP30, if I am understanding Romero right) game modes.

Actually, there are only nine distinct level wad files. It turns out that you can put both the single- player and the deathmatch levels in the same wad. If you run the wad in deathmatch mode, you spawn in the deathmatch area of the level. If you play Sigil in cooperative mode, you start in the single-player part of the level. This support has been in DOOM® since the beginning.

31 minutes ago, Job said:

Romero is the only one from the original team who still gives a shit about the game after two and a half decades. He is also sorta-kinda active in our community. That makes him alright in my book. White knighting for Carmack et al will never get senpai to notice you. 

Psst, off-topic, but I'm glad you still exist and are still active!

Sorry, am I just confused, or are they taking pre-orders for a thing they haven't even bothered announcing yet? Is John Romero's name the only thing spenders have to go on here? Sounds kinda scummy to me.

8 minutes ago, Ubik said:

 

Psst, off-topic, but I'm glad you still exist and are still active!

Ha, same (OT)! I still remember the sweet soundtrack you made for my level years back. Nice to see you here again! 

10 minutes ago, Diabolución said:

 

I understand this PWAD is designed only for ZDoom-based source ports, the ones with the proper MAPINFO support in order to define a custom level progression.

In the stream John said, "Anything but the original, because I'm blowing all the limits", which I took to mean any limit removing port including Crispy, PrBoom+, etc. I think he might just be manually replacing one of the episodes.

Although a port with MP3 (or whatever file type is used) support would be needed for the Buckethead soundtrack, obviously.

1 hour ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

Any of us made a game that's made half as much as Doom did?  Probably not.  So there's really no use in comparing the community's mapping skills against someone who actually does make money doing it.  

Are you seriously suggesting that romero's maps are better than everything this community has brought forth on the basis that he asks money for a product that none of us are even allowed to monetize in the first place?

Awesome, another thing to look forward to.

Also, regarding the skepticality over what quality the levels are going to be, I have no worries whatsoever. Almost everyone here has played e1m4b and e1m8b, and those are excellent levels by any measure of quality. I mean, if you don't like those than whatever, but I'm pretty confident that John will be able to again deliver an experience that is both really fun and uniquely Romero.

2 hours ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

^Agreed.  And to top it off, he's generating more revenue off a game who's revenue stream should have ended long ago.  Any of us made a game that's made half as much as Doom did?  Probably not.  So there's really no use in comparing the community's mapping skills against someone who actually does make money doing it.  

This comment is dumb and while I am amused at the idea of NIH turning her nose up at Sigil because it is not hardkore enuff I think her comment re: your deification of Romero is spot on

1 hour ago, EtherBot said:

Sorry, am I just confused, or are they taking pre-orders for a thing they haven't even bothered announcing yet? Is John Romero's name the only thing spenders have to go on here? Sounds kinda scummy to me.

Uh, no. Sigil (a nine-level episode for the original Doom) was announced, and now they're taking pre-orders for the special editions that come with physical goodies. Check the rest of the thread if you haven't.

Damn, I need to get the ultimate DOOM IWAD. I've had DOOM 2 for a while but I just never really saw the need to get the first one, since most PWADs are for that IWAD. This looks really good though. Romero's maps were always the most well-made in the original games, and I really can't wait to see how much he's improved since then.

@ Nine in Heels : No I'm not, I'm saying Romero has actually made money doing this as a job and it's insulting to say his maps won't be good when none of the rest of us have made a living at it or done anything close to Romero's portfolio.

There's some great pwads for Ultimate Doom...including Romero's. (No, they are not the hardest/greatest Udoom pwads of all time, but that's hardly a reason to get bent out of shape lol.)

I'm not saying we should deify Romero either, it just seems like a lot of people in this thread have no respect for a man who helped change gaming history.  

So I'm a bit disappointed it's not Blackroom related, but how can you say no to a Romero made .WAD? Excited as fuck. The level design looks insane.

If you're reading the Romero, good to have you back! I look forward to playing your latest work.

3 minutes ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

@ Nine in Heels : No I'm not, I'm saying Romero has actually made money doing this as a job and it's insulting to say his maps won't be good when none of the rest of us have made a living at it or done anything close to Romero's portfolio.

Except nobody here said his maps are guaranteed to be bad, what I said is that what is shown in that 2 minutes of gameplay doesn't look like something that is my cup of tea. If I were to choose between ancient aliens and maps that play like what is shown in the clip, I'd pick ancient aliens any day because it is a well-paced megawad (that actually is a megawad). Let's not pretend that 2 minute trailer does a good job of making these maps look like something to be hyped about.

Never mind that you're pulling the "Romero has done awesome stuff and you didn't, so how dare you have opinions?!" card again, probably without even noticing it. By the way the Brothers Grimm just called me, and they said they want their bedtime story of how you mailed Romero back.

1 hour ago, Diabolución said:

I understand this PWAD is designed only for ZDoom-based source ports, the ones with the proper MAPINFO support in order to define a custom level progression.

It seems what he meant is he played this on GZDoom, but the map format is probably limit-removing or whatever. To be honest, if the map can only be played on GZDoom, I would just be disappointed.

7 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

that release trailer better not be played on UV-difficulty, because if it is it might be snooze-fest.wad...

It seems the environment is pretty enough, so I really hope it's not GZDoom only. However, I don't understand why he chose Doom 1 instead of 2 because there are so many other things you can do on 2... Or probably this shouldn't be mentioned. Otherwise, the eternal debate about these things will occur.

What I'm really hoping for is for Romero to release a complete Quake SP level for Arcane Dimensions.

5 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

It seems the environment is pretty enough, so I really hope it's not GZDoom only. However, I don't understand why he chose Doom 1 instead of 2 because there are so many other things you can do on 2...

Well, it's Doom(1)'s 25th anniversary, so the choice makes a lot a lot of sense in that when you announce it at this day.... Well, I think we all would have liked to have a look at it this very day for ourselves, but anyway, it makes sense to me is all I'm saying.

2 minutes ago, kmxexii said:

That's the real flamebait for 2018 - people getting pissed at the idea of Sigil potentially winning a Cacoward

What interests me more than potential flamewars is whether or not Sigil is going to be considered an iWAD or not.  FWIW I think it was perfectly fine to give "tech gone bad" a caco.

1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Well, it's Doom(1)'s 25th anniversary, so the choice makes a lot a lot of sense in that when you announce it at this day.... Well, I think we all would have liked to have a look at it this very day for ourselves, but anyway, it makes sense to me is all I'm saying.

Oh yeah, didn't consider this as a thing. I pretty much agree with all you said. To me, it's funny that someone sent an email because of one of your sentence. That's all.

Well, i played the original doom games back in the day, and just last month i came back to see what the community was making... and all those huge levels, like a openworld game, filled with colors, 3D floors, slaughter maps with hundreds and hundreds of enemies... all of this is new to me... it's like a different game, i'm not saying it's bad, actually it's better, all these new possibillities makes the mapper's and modder's imagination fly freelly...

But... the original doom, the "romero" doom wasn't like this. It was made of quick maps, with claustrophobic corridors and a few monsters, more emphasis on the progression and gameplay than the greatness of visuals, colors and open areas...

So, what am i hoping to see in his new 5° episode? More of the classic doom gameplay, more of those closed combats that i love, more of those claustrophobics fights that made me sweat when i was a teenager... not a huge Ancient Aliens megawad (which is beautifull, don't get me wrong)... but i just want more of my old school classic doom :)

22 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

What interests me more than potential flamewars is whether or not Sigil is going to be considered an iWAD or not. 

Obviously not. It requires Doom.wad to run, therefore it is clearly a PWAD. Not sure why there would be debate otherwise?