Top 25 Cacoward Snubs

@gaspeThe inclusion of both ALT AND Sacrament is one of my biggest gripes actually, because they are both by BOS, while as I mentioned Stormwalker and Ixnatiful (off the top of my head) still have not received anything at all despite releasing very solid episodes.

I'd probably also have knocked Vile Flesh off the list, would have been well worth a Caco in 2004, but does not age well IMO. That would make room for Stormwalker and Ixnatiful. Golden Souls (because its sequel just won a Caco like a whole two days ago lol) and Rylayeh are also shaky inclusions to me. But still, a great list and great surprise it was made too. :)

I am so glad for Nova 2's mention. We were definitely dedicated to getting this one released and of good but still noobly quality that all of our efforts deserved to be honored. Also City of the Damned again, noice.

The one wad I'd personally mention is 2048 Unleashed, with excellent quality control of each and every level in the main set and fun bonus maps. Of the maps I've made the two I made there are honestly my two personal favorites.

Demonized, one of my old favs. Map02 is one of those demos I've always wanted to make but eventually never did.

I also remember liking Zaero, precisely for the tame use of ZDoom features that the review mentions.

4 hours ago, FrancisT18 said:

I'd probably also have knocked Vile Flesh off the list, would have been well worth a Caco in 2004, b-

No need to continue with the sentence, because you hit the nail on the head right there. If we went by the most memorable/impressive/best criteria, I'm sure the list would get utterly dominated by recent production, but their exclusion in year 2016 or what-have-you is less of a glaring mistake than excluding Vile Flesh in 2004. It's the size of the snub that matters!

@dewAh I see, so all wads are judged to their standards as of when they were released and in turn when they should have been recognized, NOT today's standards?

59 minutes ago, FrancisT18 said:

@dewAh I see, so all wads are judged to their standards as of when they were released and in turn when they should have been recognized, NOT today's standards?

Both, I assume. You can keep a historical context in mind when you play something, but it still has to be fun to play today or else what's the point?

Rylayeh's awesome. Glad it's getting recognized. "Good for its time" fuck that shit. There are a lot of more famous megawads and episodes I've played through that are a total blur in my memory (in some cases blurs with distinctive color schemes, in all fairness). Rylayeh is something else. I'll never forget maps 2 and 3. 

Cool to see Jade Earth on this list. Truly felt like one of the epic single-map releases. Jodwin was always one to have anemic ammo balance on his levels which made everything feel way more tense than it had any right to be. It also features one of most ridiculous UV-Speed tricks I've seen in a while. Creaphis wrote a great .txt summary of his run (DSDA link to Jade Earth if that's your thing: http://doomedsda.us/wad1450.html).

This was a fun read. It feels like a mixture of wads that either got silently released or never really formally announced the end of their development. So many easy-to-miss classics.

For the 30th anniversary, we'll need a Top 10 Cacoward Snubs Snubs, listing ten mods that should have been on this list.

Damn, Alt is some fine playing wad!

On 12/11/2018 at 11:40 PM, Linguica said:

Biggest snub: Army of Darkness Doom (1996) for its excellent Map03 that was in no way terrible

AOD was included in 1996.

https://www.doomworld.com/10years/bestwads/1996.php

I was actually making an oblique joke that I was snubbed for one of the Top 100 Most Memorable Maps on the grounds that they should have included my level to appease me as the webmaster. I suppose this is probably much more obscure than I was giving it credit for.

6 hours ago, Linguica said:

an oblique joke

So, Independence Doom for the Mordeth award..?

Very nice to see skepland in this list, or any list at all really.

Plutonium winds is also one of those curiously underrated sets. I've been a fan of darkreaver stuff since his exquisite contribution to CC4.

@korenHe also had 'Brood of Hatred' (boh666.wad, 2010) and Level 17 of 'DooM II Unleashed' (pc_cp.wad, 2011) even before that CC4 map. The later is probably closer to the style you've have seen already from him, though it's a techbase.

6 hours ago, Mordeth said:

 

So, Independence Doom for the Mordeth award..?

Ask him about it

On 12/11/2018 at 11:21 PM, Nancsi said:

 Another misses are Foursite (which is largely disliked on this board for whatever reason)

Is it? I always got the impression it was given the same slightly indifferent attention any other first-map-with-a-fair-few-issues would, and rightly so, because that's exactly what it is!

The surrounding mainstream media circus was certainly undeserved compared to the actual top-quality Doom maps people make, but I think in hindsight it wasn't really about that map itself, it more just acted as a proxy for the scene as a whole: it was more the idea that people still created big content for Doom that was interesting. 

10 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

Is it? I always got the impression it was given the same slightly indifferent attention any other first-map-with-a-fair-few-issues would, and rightly so, because that's exactly what it is!

 

The surrounding mainstream media circus was certainly undeserved compared to the actual top-quality Doom maps people make, but I think in hindsight it wasn't really about that map itself, it more just acted as a proxy for the scene as a whole: it was more the idea that people still created big content for Doom that was interesting. 

I actually enjoyed that map a lot more than most usermade content, despite the bugs. It had some amazing ideas from the Mancubi crusher room, through the Lost Soul library hell to the overpowered SM at the end. Also it used vanilla content only, but expanded it with large scale, and a journey type progression (with nice seethrough connections between the areas). I think that map got the media attention for valid reasons. Most people outside the DW community prefer these kinds of levels, not what has been the gold standard here.

Too bad, that level had some graphical glitches here and there (like that long elevator where you can see forward to the next area). Also the last segment dragged a bit too long.

3 hours ago, Nancsi said:

 

I actually enjoyed that map a lot more than most usermade content, despite the bugs. It had some amazing ideas from the Mancubi crusher room, through the Lost Soul library hell to the overpowered SM at the end. Also it used vanilla content only, but expanded it with large scale, and a journey type progression (with nice seethrough connections between the areas). I think that map got the media attention for valid reasons. Most people outside the DW community prefer these kinds of levels, not what has been the gold standard here.

 

Too bad, that level had some graphical glitches here and there (like that long elevator where you can see forward to the next area). Also the last segment dragged a bit too long.

Well I'm very glad you enjoyed it then! When I look at it now I kind of just see the things I would have done differently if I was more experienced, so it's always nice to hear people liked it.

So you made the map, LOL.

Yeah, I liked it very much. I'm very critical to userlevels, very few caught my attention, this was certainly one of them!

It didn't get that much attention around here but it was still recommended in several threads and nominated for Cacowards; and I only found one really negative comment about it.

Hell, Foursite was one of the first PWADs I played. It was my first Caco mentionation too.

On 12/12/2018 at 10:43 AM, Khorus said:

Honored at the Warlock's Hearth getting a slot here, proud to be amongst some epic snubs!

Didn't even know about that map. 

EDIT: Oh wait, apparently I did, because I had it downloaded. :p

EDIT2: yeah i remember that map. Good one.

were any of the revenant trilogy maps mentioned on any lists? Infinite revenants was pretty well done technically.

Castlevania: Simon's Destiny not winning a Cacoward is still a mystery to me.  

I remember this project coming up last year. The verdict was... it just isn't that fun. Jumping and whipping candles on walls in a 2.5d engine is extremely tedious and the standard ZDoom jumping mechanics are frustrating (this is largely why Golden Souls 2 easily won a Cacoward over Golden Souls 1).

But the cacowards aren't just for fun-to-play mods per se. After all being a good gameplay designer isnt all it takes to be a notable doom modder. Sheer achievement is also pretty important.

edit: added a line

But if the result is not entertaining, then what's the point?

Just now, Da Werecat said:

But if the result is not entertaining, then what's the point?

No thats totally fair, I just think that the point of the cacowards is to reward excellent mods more than excellent 'games' if that makes sense. Sometimes the sheer vision or technical know-how behind a mod is enough for it to deserve something imo