30nm1244 (TAS)

Sweet barrels of fun route!

Top 3 absurdities in this demo:

3) Map23 void glide

2) Map29 archvile jump to the final climb

1) Map30 baiting 2 lost souls to charge so you can fire 2 rockets with perfect vertical autoaim so they both go precisely into the brain hole

I was just about to go to bed when I saw this thread title. Naturally the only sensible thing to do was delay going to bed to watch this immediately.

5 hours ago, Linguica said:

2) Map29 archvile jump to the final climb

I had to watch that back a couple of times to work out what happened.

5 hours ago, Linguica said:

 

1) Map30 baiting 2 lost souls to charge so you can fire 2 rockets with perfect vertical autoaim so they both go precisely into the brain hole

How does that idea even come into someone's head?

8 hours ago, ZeroMaster010 said:

The effort didn't really warrant it's own thread

No, it really does deserve it.

Incredible stuff by ZeroMaster yet again!

1 hour ago, Degree23 said:

How does that idea even come into someone's head?

The general type of idea isn't totally unfamiliar. For instance, if you have to shoot a switch that is above/below you, then a standard attempt to short-circuit the intended route is to fire towards it with the SSG while some monster is above/below you and roughly in line with the switch. You just hope you get the timing right and one of the hitscans hits the switch. Offhand I can't cite example demos, but it is a known idea. Using it with rockets after PRNG manipulation to get a PE is a natural (though trickier) extension of the theme.

How in the blazes did you death-exit on MAP02? O_O Does the engine really allow you to die and pull the exit switch in the same tic?

Yes. Of course, in a non-TAS environment, it only happens by accident. I recall a few instances over the years, but it's hard to remember specifics. Here are two links though. Edit: the one I was really trying to remember (having watched it just a few weeks ago) is the one dew links to in his post below.

I remember the strategy to shoot the brain with a lost soul was discussed somewhere, there was even a demo showing it.

Edit: it was here 

19 hours ago, Jimmy said:

How in the blazes did you death-exit on MAP02? O_O Does the engine really allow you to die and pull the exit switch in the same tic?

The first time I saw this happen was bolton's 2001 bonus demo in his pa10-028 Compet-N submission. It is exactly that - the cyb obliterates him in the same tic he presses the exit switch.

just saw this thread, congratulations ZM! finally someone pulled off the map30 trick! so happy to see it. I am really glad I was able to contribute to any doom2 run :).

I wonder if a UV run would have been faster or not. of course in non-tas NM is always slower also because of the difficulty, but what about TAS? is there anything you

can do faster or slower compared to a UV run? (in other words, would a almost perfect UV run or a almost perfect NM run faster in doom2 D2all)? I can only come up with map03 monster run. are there any other monster runs which are only possible in UV (except of a potential map29 cacorun :))

holy moly how difficult is it to get to the correct RNG table position again after you changed

it? always thought editing an existing TAS run is almost impossible since it would be a pain

or would take too much time to get to the correct position back. is there a tool which allows

you to know the exact position? when I did some RNG manipulation in map30 back then I

edited chocolate doom such that it prints out the position.

what you wrote with bad TAS made this actually very enjoyable to watch for me. I like smooth turns way more compared to the inch perfect ones in as you call it "good" tas.

what surprised me most:

- megasphere grab in map11

- RJ in 17 nice! you did not even mention it in the txt. is it an old trick?

- 18 almost missed that soulsphere grab!

- 23 glide

- 24 wow, how is this possible? the lost soul does what?

- 26 it seems you can get both cell packs at the end...

- 27 end, wow!

- 29 end of course

Thanks, I'm surprised you didn't see this thread earlier, heh.

I have no idea if an optimal NM TAS vs a UV TAS would be faster or not in thoery. Practically, even though it is TAS, I can't imagine that it would be because many things get restricted due to damage from hitscan. There's only so many times you can re roll the dice without losing your mind :)

My guess is that UV would be faster in theory because of monster not moving much in nightmare when they have line of sight, I don't see how map 27 on NM could match UV for example, and it was impossible to use a hell knight to get out of map 23 which meant I couldn't RJ on map 24. Though say map 30 might be faster on NM, so I can't be sure if all things are considered.

I don't remember the exact estimate I got for a UV TAS the last time I looked at it (it was some months ago), but it was definitely below 11 minutes, and it didn't include wallrunning over to the exit area on map 29 (actually lost souls should be faster, I haven't tried it) or the quicker IoS. The timesave on map 29 is massive, and so I strongly believe a 9:XX is possible for UV.

I used XDRE which shows the RNG index, so it's just a matter of trying to get it to match at the exit if I want to edit maps in the middle of it.

map 11, the soulsphere is definitely not needed on UV, but it came in handy for me here.

map 17 RJ was done in the unfinished 30uv tas by xepop, not sure if it was done earlier.

map 24 the lost soul activates the linedef, pinky demons do this all the time. I know I got this from looper, not sure if it was his idea orginally.

well I have to admit that I am way more interested in iwad (speedruns) compared to pwads and therefore I usually look in the specific threads and only sometimes at the speedrunning subforum in general. actually looper told me in a youtube comment today that you made this run because I thought his new 29s map30 run is the fastest around currently. he must have thought that I try to fool him since your run completely went over me xD.

guess you are right with UV being faster, but with sub 10? with the last time you looked at it you mean that you made an unfinished uv TAS run which was below 11 mins? if so, why dont you upload it? if it is because what you wrote in the txt that it is not polished enough, I would not mind not inch perfect movement at all.

I see, never used XDRE before, sounds like a good piece of software. the one I used back then only was able to do lmp to txt and txt to lmp.

map24: surprisingly I always thought that the pinkies lower that platform because they get stuck when it wants to raise.

thank you for all your clarifications and good luck with your projects in the future! Just skipped through your collection of super fast runs, just a small list of what you might want to do if you ever go out of ideas:

doom2:

- coop run non-tas (what could be as epic as a ZM-looper or ZM-elim coop run?, probably not possible due to ping). i.e. the NM coop run is very old

- first ever pacifist or tyson D2ALL TAS

- Max TAS & non-TAS, cyberdemon531 might be happy about some competition

- NoMo

doom:

- coop TAS run with void glides

1 hour ago, ZeroMaster010 said:

map 24 the lost soul activates the linedef, pinky demons do this all the time. I know I got this from looper, not sure if it was his idea orginally.

Yeah, I came up with it when I tried to activate the last line def to lower the key. Only had this idea back then. The trick is actually used in the unfinished TAS by xepop... spoiler :D

Map17 RJ is something I am not sure who came up with it anymore. It might have been me, xepop, clumsydoomer or some turborun. I mean if someone did it first with turbo, then it's pretty much same as RJ.

25 minutes ago, termrork said:

- first ever pacifist or tyson D2ALL TAS

I think pacifist TAS is quite boring. The routes etc are pretty much the same except for Map30. Tyson on the other hand could be cool, TAS and non-TAS.

1 hour ago, termrork said:

guess you are right with UV being faster, but with sub 10? with the last time you looked at it you mean that you made an unfinished uv TAS run which was below 11 mins? if so, why dont you upload it? if it is because what you wrote in the txt that it is not polished enough, I would not mind not inch perfect movement at all.

No I just looked at how much time could be saved on tricks and using vita's e1 and xepop's 20uv run to estimate the full run.