SirJuicyLemon Posted January 24, 2019 Hello community, I've been wondering which are the best Doom games, what made them great and what were their flaws (speaking mainly about the most important games in the series, let's say Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, Doom 3 and Doom (2016)). I've always been a Doom enthusiast and I just finished Doom 3 and Doom (2016) a couple weeks ago so I guess I'm kinda ready to compare them all (although I've played Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 much much more so maybe I'm a little bias, but at least those are the original ones). To start off with the original ones it's kinda rough because as they are the main reference model for comparison and the most pure incarnation of Doom games I don't really get that much ideas of what could be done better or what are their flaws. The original Doom / Ultimate Doom: Spoiler -In short, I think the game is a masterpiece: the engine, the gameplay, the monsters, the weapons, the music, the atmosphere. Just brilliant! -What could have been better would be more monsters maybe(?). That's IMO the main difference between Doom 1 and Doom 2 (apart from the SSG obviously). Doom 2 could incorporate new great monsters without making it feel like it doesn't belong to a Doom game. -I guess some more interactions to activate doors, secrets, etc could have been better but that probably surpasses the engine limitations, which were already really good at the time (plus we already have source ports like ZDoom, GZDoom, Skulltag/Zandronum nowadays) so I'm kinda cool with it. -I'm indifferent about Thy Flesh Consumed. It's like it doesn't add much story, it doesn't add new things, it doesn't even have a map at the end of the level where you can see where each level is located and the design of the levels (and the atmosphere, both in design and storywise) isn't that good (IMO). Also the boss is Spider Mastermind again? Doom 2: Spoiler -Super Shotgun was a fine addition in all that matters for Doom and the history of gaming. -The new monsters are also a good addition for the Doom universe. It's like they all feel unique in some sort of way. Even the Pain Elementals, which summons an old monster (Lost Souls) or the Hell Knight, which is just a weak Baron of Hell, but also gives have different colors/sounds and kinda gives freedom to spawn more of those instead of Barons to compensate. -I have mixed feelings about the maps, I think some of them are good and some of them not, like the industrial/cities ones and I kinda miss the Inferno hellish design in some maps that were supposed to be inside hell. -Also miss the maps of the levels at the end of each level but then again I'm not sure if separating the game into episodes could have worked on Doom 2 (because a map with 32 levels would be a mess). Doom 2 feels like it has some kind of continuity between all levels, more suitable maintenance of adrenaline momentum for a fast-paced action game such as Doom (yet I still prefer the episode system from the original one, even if it for some people feels like it kinda slows you between every episode). I guess you all already know what the original Doom games are like so there's not much more than that to say. Really great games. About other console adaptations I don't care much because I feel like the PC ones are the most authentic versions of the game reaching good performance, good audio quality and stuff (I've heard that the Playstation one has some little differences with the PC one but is still pretty good, but I'll keep just with the PC ones). About just refering to the PC ones, sorry Doom 64 fans. Someday I'll play it. Also, as I said at the beginning of this topic, just the main games so no Final Doom (plus they are just some mappacks) and no Doom 3: RoE (I tried playing it but I just couldn't). Here's there the fun begins: the new games. In short, I've tried to play Doom 3 like three or four times in my life and I just could finish it the last time I tried because I really tried to finish the game and tried to be objective about it, the other times I just got bored or just felt I was playing a horribly bad game. About Doom (2016) I feel it's a pretty awesome game but I could have done better trying to stand in the shadow of a giant. Doom 3: Spoiler -In one sentence, I'd say that, thinking Doomwise, Doom 3 did everything wrong. -They focused on making of Doom a horror game. Yeah, we know that even the original ones had some rooms with a big amount of darkness but there were few and it wasn't the main focus of the game to horrify the player. I'd say for some reason that it was kind of a commercial strategy (I don't really know if horror games/movies were that popular at the time but I don't get why they would do such a thing. I think of a commercial strategy because of Thy Flesh Consumed (unnecessary "expansion" or re-release) or Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil (weapon suspiciously similar to Half-Life 2). If you can't see/agree that their purpose was to focus Doom 3 to be a dark horror game then I'll just highlight the fact that they added such an important element for that kind of game as an important element for the game such as a weapon: the flashlight (not counting BFG edition). -I can't blame them for trying to incorporate more story to the game. Yeah, the original ones had a really small amount of story into them. I'm not sure if adding more story could have slowed the release of the original game or have made a problem with the size of the game or limitation of some sort but there was no intention from the development team to add more story than that (even with the Doom Bible) but those were other times. The evolution of videogames have give the chance to let the games tell deeper and deeper stories with the pass of time and the progress of machines. The problem with Doom 3 is that the way they have to achieve this storytelling is really boring, and the story isn't that good either. Long unskippable cutscenes (long for a fast-paced action game) with bad acting and boring conversations mostly. Boring PDAs filled with great quantities of information but nobody cares about it except to check some mails or voice recordings to get some combinations passwords for lockers with ammo, weapons and stuff. -Other story/direction oriented problems like showing Doomguy's face a lot (at least in those cutscenes) or being an eternity inside Mars military base and just a bunch of minutes inside hell. Applause for Doom (2016) for never showing the face beating the original Doom (although the HUD would be pretty boring without it). At least for me, the kind of anonymity of Doomguy has become some sort of key characteristic for him (even if there are some faces shown or some names like Flynn Taggart, B.J. Blazkowicz III and other). -Slaughtering the monsters. "Let's not add Arachnotrons/Spider Mastermind but rather real spiders monsters" doesn't sounds like a good idea, even for me knowing that I don't mind that much the fact that they didn't add those monsters (later I explain why). Also, why making annoying little spiders when you already have Lost Souls? Neither does butchering some old designs like Cacodemon's for the sake of making it look real. Cacodemon's design is iconic as hell (pun intended). Demon's (Pinky) for some reason I kinda like, except for the metal rear legs. Same goes for Hell Knight; I kinda like his new design to difference him a little between a Baron of Hell now that we have the chance... but what the heck happened to the Baron though? And what the fuck they did to the Lost Soul? It's horrible! They had to repair their mistake in the expansion. Mancubus design is gross but I guess it works fine because that's what a Mancubus is supposed to be and that's the impression that it's supposed to give(?). -No Super Shotgun, another mistake repaired in the expansion (just as a side note: repairing mistakes on an expansion is not a good enough solution, the expansion was shit and people will not even considerate that as a compensation; those mistakes are big and permanent). I kinda like the fact that you can charge up the BFG9000 up to the point that I just explodes and you die but it also makes no sense both in real life weaponry and in gameplay. They tried to make sense stating that it is a new generation high tech experimental weapon or something like that but still is not enough I guess... Grenades were a good addition I suppose, I liked them because they were useful even considerating that you have a rocket launcher and there must be a reason on why they kept them for the 2016 game. Don't remember much of Berserker powerups either, I just remember catching it once. That's wack. -Bosses were weird. Did not like the design of Vagary or Sabaoth, it's just more of that weird focus to make Doom 3 a weird horror game. Did not like the design of Cyberdemon either because it felt like it was fully metallic and 0% flesh (or very little) while it was supposed to be a combination of both (more flesh than metal IMO) and the fact that you can only kill him with the Soul Cube feels like they are trying to justify the entire twisted and weird plot of the story, and you gotta stay more focused on killing enemies to fill up the Soul Cube again than on the Cyberdemon itself. -The only thing that I could kinda appreciate from Doom 3 after finishing it for the first time after all these years is that it progressively reaches to give the atmosphere it was desesperately trying to give, but I don't feel like it's the atmosphere proper for a Doom game. Doom (2016): Spoiler -In one sentence, I'd say that Doom (2016) repaired a lot of the errors from the last Doom game and achieved a really good level at making a succesful game worth of the franchise. -The designs were mostly great. They gave back our beloved Cacodemons, Lost Souls, even Pinky demons (seems like people didn't liked the Doom 3 one) but kept the Hell Knight which I think it's a good call. Now the difference between a Baron of Hell and a Hell Knight was really significant (also, they added Baron, yay!). Most of the designs were like a new, fresh and audacious remake such as the Imp's and Mancubus' which even had some that became Cyber-Mancubus (personally not a fan but I don't dislike it either). I would say that they were kinda on the other extreme of the design comparing it to Doom 3, while the last game tried to appear like realistic, this game came back to some originals designs and, in a new era of computer graphics, gave them their original looks with realistic appearance and at the same time a little bit of cartoonish style remaining from the original designs (I'm not sure about this though because this was my opinion on monsters like the Cacodemon or Pinky but after giving them a closer look they have some really impressing realistic details such as veins around Cacodemon's cheeks). The Cyberdemon, even if it's really fun to fight against him and you get to fight him both in Mars and Hell in two combats, lacks of the original shape of a Cyberdemon: a minotaur kind of demon. This one has some horns but not the horns of a bull, much less the legs of a bull as he has big giant legs. This design was more intended to be a Behemoth-like monster. And his new kit of abilities (apart from shooting rockets) doesn't convinces me; I know such a modern game should add new attacks but the ones they selected do not feel like proper for a Cyberdemon, although they keep the dynamic of the fast-paced game pretty well. Again, it's like another extreme if we compare it to Doom 3, the other one was like a minotaur but didn't feel fully like a Cyberdemon because of all the metal, also they didn't added any new attack (except a melee one), just a bunch of enemies to fill up the Soul Cube because it's the only way to kill him and this, apart from driving our attention away from the Cyberdemon almost all the fight doesn't keep the dynamic of a fast-paced game (I mean yes, you have to run, but run just killing minor enemies, avoiding the rocket missiles just by running instead of covering, not focusing on the real enemy, having to wait for a weapon to charge up and can't kill him with any quantity of normal firepower). Also, this is kinda why I didn't mind that they didn't added Arachnotrons or Spider Masterminds back in Doom 3: I was hoping to see a similar plain simple combination of flesh and metal both in Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind; it doesn't have to be the same exact design of a raw brain with arms and face up in a metallic spider robot with a chaingun but the new design just seems like a totally realy well-done next generation robot parts done specially for both the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind rather than the classic weird and wicked experimental amputations just to replace with a bunch of metal. -I'm not good at analyzing music, I just really liked it and I have to say that it was kind of magical the fact that music normally has it's own pace but when a large amount of demons come to attack you (mostly on gore nests) music gets on a really fast pace perfect for some fast-paced trigger happy action and when it's over the game knows how to make music come back to normal. -No Archvile? No problem, we got the Summoner. For some reason I liked it. Not a big fan but I'm sure that I don't dislike it at all. Cool design, cool attacks; it gives the game another element to be aware of. -Apart from the gore nests and Summoners, another addition that benefits the game are the glory kills which contribute to enrich this image of the Doomguy born in the original games and raised by the whole franchise with it's games/novels and the help from the internet, a kind of anonymous guy that just wants to rip and tear all the demons from Hell. They even kinda recognized this at the start of the game with the initial cutscene. The Doomslayer's Testament stories told by the runes of Hell are also a good addition for this purpose; they let us know that the Doomslayer is a warrior full of hatred who eventually decides the perpetual torment of fighting the hordes of Hell (as he is the only one capable of doing such thing). -I liked the military bases maps, being on the surface of Mars and mostly the hellish maps, they had cool designs. Yet, I still wonder why they don't do the effort to think of a story rich enough to make some events happen on Phobos or Deimos, or even being in Hell there could have been some sort of edifications/buildings that do not look like an ancient mythic wasteland with no technology. I love the way they portrayed Hell on the 2016 game, I think it's awesome but they could have incorporated a little more technology (at least in the architecture?) or incorporate more of the hellish/bloody elements like the walls/elevators made of flesh and bones, the countless skulls' textures like it was a catacomb, hallways of green marble, the floors made of guts, rivers of blood, the red solid rocks, the red rocks melting with lava, those weird souls' faces all mixed up in some sort of eternal torment inside a wall or more of that weird blue and red texture that I never understood what was supposed to be but it was cool as hell anyways. I will attach some examples, some are from Doom 2 but are just to show the textures. Also, it would be more understandable to have a perfectly made advanced spider robot on a hell with more signs of technology on hell rather than on an ancient wasteland I guess... -I liked the system of upgrading the suit, weapons and stuff. Having the possibility of choosing different weapons attachments is kinda cool, although it's kinda non sense when Doomguy smashes the little flying robot to get the weapon attachment he desires. -About new additions, I liked the heavy assault rifle and it kinda casted a shadow on the chaingun as you get the heavy assault rifle much earlier and it kinda makes the same thing (obviously the chaingun is more powerful, but I tried to use it to take out some Pinkies and, as they are buffed, I couldn't do much to their shields; and if I can't use the chaingun to do that without needing to aim to their sweetspots then I don't need the chaingun, because I don't remember crowds of demons big enough to need to use the chaingun, if I need to do that I just rather use a grenade, rocket launcher or the explosive shotgun attachment or use the heavy assault rifle to take out some demons quickly or when I'm in need of aiming). I'm impressed by how powerful is the Gauss cannon as you can take out a Baron really quickly, yet I'm indifferent to it because it doesn't feel like a necessary addition. I didn't liked the Plasma Rifle projectiles because they look like glowing bubbles rather than a plasma ball. -About demons, I don't see why all the demon soldiers need to have plasma-like weapons. The only one which has like a classic fire gun is the Possessed Security who has like a shotgun or something, but all the rest have kind of red plasma pistols. And the Hell Razer monsters... I just think they are stupid. Lasers, plasma projectiles... just an unnecessary pain in the ass. If they wanted to make a pain in the ass that shoots plasma projectiles they should have done some arachnotrons and make regular and classic zombies with fire guns. -Even if I liked the glory kills, the Chainsaw kills and the Berserker powerups which all contribute to make Doomguy a real Doomslayer there are some little details that I hated and gave a bad impression for this purpose, mostly two and they are a bad combination IMO: the lack of fists as a weapon and an infinite ammo pistol. Yeah, we get it, glory kills... But you can't take away the fists from Doomguy! It's a brutality! Berserker powerup is not for letting you use the fists, just to boost them a lot! You should be able to always use your fists as last resource, and not have something as dreamy and ideal like an infinite ammo pistol, that's just ridiculous. If you are going to implement Chainsaw kills, which drop ammo, then why care about pistol ammo? You are going to mostly use the shotgun anyway, probably. This also irritates me at the cutscene of the beginning when you get up from the sarcophagus: you will be worse, rip and tear... so good so far. Then, you smash the skull of a Possessed against the sarcophagus, very nice. But then, you conveniently pick up a pistol to kill the rest... Really? All that intro for that? If you want to show the true image of the Doomslayer, if you want to show that rip and tear you've been talking about you use your powerful fists god damn it, your fists full of hatred are more than enough to smash them all, not using a freaking infinite ammo plasma pistol. -About the story, I'm not sure if it's that good... It's kinda weird between the energy crysis which leads to extract that sort of energy from Hell, the betray of Olivia and the story of the Doomslayer as it's supposed to be eternally facing the forces of Hell. I can't quite tell if I like it or not, or if it's good or not, but I can say that it gives an amazing atmosphere. At least, almost every level has some really awesome atmosphere to give to the story, like being on the surface of Mars, being on the wastelands of Hell or watching the red sky as the Argent energy tower is functioning. -The collectibles and the arcade secret areas are a really good tribute to the original Doom games. Much better than the Super Turbo Turkey Puncher. -Although I like the system of upgrading the suit, the weapons performance, the attachments and stuff; all this along with the freaking infinite ammo pistol and the rune trials seems like unnecessary babysitting for players. It's like overprotecting the Doomslayer (and ourselves as players). -I can't yet conceive a double jump pair of boots as possible but well, I guess I'll just go with it... It's like the infinite ammo pistol but this one has more to do with some map design limitations so I can't complain much about it. Wow! I'm quite a bigmouth... sorry for all that boring text. Just to be clear, these are my impressions about these Doom games. I'm not saying is the best opinion or something. Reading myself, there are many times that I'm not sure what I like or dislike. Feels like there is no right way for me in some cases (mostly criticizing the Cyberdemon design probably), and other cases I just can't explain correctly why I like or dislike something (the Summoner for example). I'm probably very biased by knowing and having played the original Doom games during years, hating Doom 3 right from the start all these years and being hyped for the 2016 game for a long time. Anyway, that's kind of my opinion in some sort of way, what do you guys think about it? What's your opinion? I'll be reading. Also, I heard that the new Doom game (2016) didn't bring the attention of new public and was just liked by the old Doom fans. Is that true? Thanks for reading! 4 Share this post Link to post
TheNoob_Gamer Posted January 24, 2019 Nice review/analysis :) But I have some complaints about your post: -Doom 1/UDoom: +It was 1993, and Wolf 3D was released a year ago by id, so it's easy to understand why there are not so many monsters variants in this game. +Thy Flesh Consumed was released a year after Doom 2 (1995) and it's was made for players who have really master both Doom, so everything was kinda rushed. If you want an improved intermission screen of E4, check out this thread. -Doom 2: +Well I think the removal of episodic shits is okay, because I don't want to lose all of my weapons after completing each 8(+1) maps. +About the maps, well it's another part of hell. And I agree with you about city levels, they look so blocky. -Doom 3: Well this game is not entirely a sequel to Doom2, it's more like a prequel. And the protagonist isn't Doomguy we all know and love. And let's not forget Doom 1 was originnaly planned as a survival horror, so I can say that Carmack tried. Doom 4: I haven't really played the game. Oh, I think you should go play Doom 64 for the sake of completion. Many people say "it's the real Doom 3". 1 Share this post Link to post
riderr3 Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, SirJuicyLemon said: It looks like old version of Hell Keep where floor was not sink, but sitting on its surface. 1 Share this post Link to post
ketmar Posted January 24, 2019 just my 5 cents: what i absolutely don't like (and what totally ruined the game for me) is that they turned DooM 2016 into arena shooter. "enter a room, monsters spawns, clean a room, repeat". while this is not the worst design (and they did some quite big rooms later, so it almost feels "right"), it is still doesn't feel "doomish enough" for me. sure, original dooms had those arenas too, but they didn't felt like mostly arenas. and 2016 does -- for me. 2 Share this post Link to post
Bauul Posted January 24, 2019 9 hours ago, SirJuicyLemon said: Also, I heard that the new Doom game (2016) didn't bring the attention of new public and was just liked by the old Doom fans. Is that true? If anything I'd say it was the opposite. Doom 2016 was received warmly, but not absolutely ecstatically, by the original Doom fans just because it's (understandably) a pretty different game to the originals we enjoy so much. There's no indication the success of Doom 2016 was just driven by fans of the originals. In the mainstream gaming press and communities, Doom 2016 has completely eclipsed the original games in terms of visibility and public consciousness. If you look at somewhere like the Doom subreddit the content is primarily Doom 2016 (and Doom Eternal) related. 2 Share this post Link to post
CorianderCastor Posted January 24, 2019 I've only played the demo of Doom 42. What annoyed me was that key binds didn't effect menu binds, no I don't want to wasd to map! Also, where's my command console!? And it has what? Four fire related keys! Please stop. Best part of Doom 3? It doesn't require nearly as many key binds as Quake 2 or Rage. Also, no hub, just levels. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gunstar Green Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) I'm a fan of the originals first and foremost but I very much enjoyed Doom 2016 as well. No it's not an exact replica of Doom and I think it has more of Painkiller and Quake's DNA than it does Doom's if I'm being honest (not a bad thing), but as far as being Doom re-imagined for modern times goes I think it does a pretty respectable job. The thing is, Doom was a ground breaking game. It's the type of success that's nearly impossible to replicate. All I can ask for is a good game that I enjoy playing and Doom 2016 managed to be that for me. That said it will never have the same lasting impact or the same community or the same level of custom content, and that's fine. It is what it is. I also agree that Doom 2016 was probably better received by new fans and casual Doom fans than it was by the hardcore audience. I think Clint Basinger of LGR said it best when he called it "Zeitgeist Doom," that is, what the public thinks Doom is and not necessarily what Doom is. Doom Eternal is one of my most anticipated games of this year so it's safe to say I'm hyped to have more games that follow 2016's formula. 0 Share this post Link to post
OniriA Posted January 24, 2019 DooM 3 was fantastic for me, it might've not been everyone's cup of tea but it definitely was mine. Its aesthethic influence was also significant and undeniable in many wads for the originals following the release of that game. 1 Share this post Link to post
TheNoob_Gamer Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, OniriA said: DooM 3 was fantastic for me, it might've not been everyone's cup of tea but it definitely was mine. Its aesthethic influence was also significant and undeniable in many wads for the originals following the release of that game. "To me Doom 3 just suffers from terrible gunplay (seriously) and being dark as hell. The game's story was good though ". (Source: One of my reddit comments - and yes, the story is good for me.) 0 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) On 1/24/2019 at 6:15 AM, TheNoob_Gamer said: Nice review/analysis :) But I have some complaints about your post: -Doom 1/UDoom: +It was 1993, and Wolf 3D was released a year ago by id, so it's easy to understand why there are not so many monsters variants in this game. +Thy Flesh Consumed was released a year after Doom 2 (1995) and it's was made for players who have really master both Doom, so everything was kinda rushed. If you want an improved intermission screen of E4, check out this thread. -Doom 2: +Well I think the removal of episodic shits is okay, because I don't want to lose all of my weapons after completing each 8(+1) maps. +About the maps, well it's another part of hell. And I agree with you about city levels, they look so blocky. -Doom 3: Well this game is not entirely a sequel to Doom2, it's more like a prequel. And the protagonist isn't Doomguy we all know and love. And let's not forget Doom 1 was originnaly planned as a survival horror, so I can say that Carmack tried. Doom 4: I haven't really played the game. Oh, I think you should go play Doom 64 for the sake of completion. Many people say "it's the real Doom 3". Thank you! Yeah I'm not really complaining about Doom 1 and his lack of monsters, I was just trying to search a flaw on the game but personally for me Doom 1 is practically a perfect game. Btw I tried the intermission screen wad and it was nice! Really interesting mod. About Doom 2, I totally understand that you enjoy that continuity between levels. And yeah, city levels look really blocky. Talking about the hell levels, I guess it's a pretty satysfying answer to say that's is a different part of hell, that's what I thought, but I still feel like they could have implemented more of that aesthetic. The thing about Doom 3 is that I didn't felt it was like a Doom. I can get the story, it just didn't touched me but I get it. It may be enjoyable and after all it's totally related to Doom. But, even if the original intentions were to make a survival horror it was too damn dark. And I'm not really saying that darkness makes a game bad, it may be the main focus and great attractive of a game, but in the case for Doom 3 I think it was too much, unnecessarily. About being a sequel/prequel or any relation with Doom 2 and the topic about Doomguy, well it's fair to say that it isn't the same one but I still prefer to show less the face of the protagonist in the game, kinda like the way Doom 4 did, bringing up a story with some other characters speaking without ever showing the protagonist face. I guess this is all matter of different scenes direction styles and everyone's preferences about them. Yet I have to be objective and can't complain too much as the original one had the face practically all the time on the HUD. I guess my problem with Doom 3, though I never liked it (even many years ago), is that I'm trying to compare it with many standards like the original intentions (I kinda fucked up a little as it was planned to be a survival horror), original final product and such while it's an experimental approach of the games intention in an era of videogame evolution. I just try to search for the elements that make a game be a Doom game and felt kinda disappointed or confused with Doom 3. (Also, I'm not quite sure how much of the Doomslayer portrait/typical characteristics was/were build up on the internet at that point either so I can't blame it that much if the Doomguy doesn't represent it like it "should" unlike the new Doom). You should totally play Doom 4 whenever you can! I really liked it! Not sure if it's worth calling it a masterpiece because is not as groundbreaking as the original one was at the time it was released (though that was an oportunity we hardly are going to see again, probably) but it's still an amazing game. I tried playing Doom 64 on an emulator once many years ago but it felt awkward with those controls, and maybe the emulation wasn't going that good because of my scratch piece of garbage PC. Is there any other way to play Doom 64 apart from an emulation? Greetings! 1 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 25, 2019 22 hours ago, ketmar said: just my 5 cents: what i absolutely don't like (and what totally ruined the game for me) is that they turned DooM 2016 into arena shooter. "enter a room, monsters spawns, clean a room, repeat". while this is not the worst design (and they did some quite big rooms later, so it almost feels "right"), it is still doesn't feel "doomish enough" for me. sure, original dooms had those arenas too, but they didn't felt like mostly arenas. and 2016 does -- for me. I totally agree with you. I kinda miss some closed areas or not-so-big rooms where there could be a lot (or not) of monsters instead of big arenas. I also don't like that much that the only closed/little areas where action takes form are inside of the bases hallways practically. But being fair, trying to imagine how to design those areas and not being realistic it's kind of a hard work. Also, obviously, miss more of the usual interactions like puzzles with switches and stuff. There were a few I think but didn't felt the same way. 0 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 25, 2019 18 hours ago, Gunstar Green said: I'm a fan of the originals first and foremost but I very much enjoyed Doom 2016 as well. No it's not an exact replica of Doom and I think it has more of Painkiller and Quake's DNA than it does Doom's if I'm being honest (not a bad thing), but as far as being Doom re-imagined for modern times goes I think it does a pretty respectable job. The thing is, Doom was a ground breaking game. It's the type of success that's nearly impossible to replicate. All I can ask for is a good game that I enjoy playing and Doom 2016 managed to be that for me. That said it will never have the same lasting impact or the same community or the same level of custom content, and that's fine. It is what it is. I also agree that Doom 2016 was probably better received by new fans and casual Doom fans than it was by the hardcore audience. I think Clint Basinger of LGR said it best when he called it "Zeitgeist Doom," that is, what the public thinks Doom is and not necessarily what Doom is. Doom Eternal is one of my most anticipated games of this year so it's safe to say I'm hyped to have more games that follow 2016's formula. Yeah, the original one was totally ground breaking at the time. It probably was many years ahead to be honest. And yeah, I still appreciate the snapmap for making maps and stuff but nothing like the whole edition of the game like you can do with the original wads. That's just priceless. 0 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 25, 2019 22 hours ago, Bauul said: If anything I'd say it was the opposite. Doom 2016 was received warmly, but not absolutely ecstatically, by the original Doom fans just because it's (understandably) a pretty different game to the originals we enjoy so much. There's no indication the success of Doom 2016 was just driven by fans of the originals. In the mainstream gaming press and communities, Doom 2016 has completely eclipsed the original games in terms of visibility and public consciousness. If you look at somewhere like the Doom subreddit the content is primarily Doom 2016 (and Doom Eternal) related. You are totally right. I heard someone talking about the new Doom and said that thing but I think he just didn't knew what really happened with the reception of the game and was saying his own point of view. 0 Share this post Link to post
ketmar Posted January 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, SirJuicyLemon said: Is there any other way to play Doom 64 apart from an emulation? yes! Kaiser wrote Doom64Ex -- reverse-engineered and ported D64 engine. i.e. this is not a GZDoom or something with bunch of scripts, it is genuine D64, disassembled and recreated. if you want to enjoy D64, this is musthave. ;-) 1 Share this post Link to post
snapshot Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) On 1/24/2019 at 6:30 PM, ketmar said: just my 5 cents: what i absolutely don't like (and what totally ruined the game for me) is that they turned DooM 2016 into arena shooter. "enter a room, monsters spawns, clean a room, repeat". while this is not the worst design (and they did some quite big rooms later, so it almost feels "right"), it is still doesn't feel "doomish enough" for me. sure, original dooms had those arenas too, but they didn't felt like mostly arenas. and 2016 does -- for me. Same, when I first got the game I was expecting something more similar to the original games (and even Doom 3's) level design but the game got very repetitive with this "Demonic presense lockdown" thing, It's cool for once or twice, but not for the entire game. one thing I really enjoy about the older games is that they let you explore the levels at your leisure, going wherever you want whenever you want. Meltdown kind of did that but you were still hunting gore nests. 1 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, ketmar said: yes! Kaiser wrote Doom64Ex -- reverse-engineered and ported D64 engine. i.e. this is not a GZDoom or something with bunch of scripts, it is genuine D64, disassembled and recreated. if you want to enjoy D64, this is musthave. ;-) Wow! That's brilliant! I'm playing it right now and it feels awesome! Many thanks!!! 1 Share this post Link to post
TheNoob_Gamer Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, SirJuicyLemon said: Wow! That's brilliant! I'm playing it right now and it feels awesome! Many thanks!!! Also check out the 'Doom 64 Retribution' TC by Nevander (the same guy who works on that E4 intermission screen), which not only recreates 90% of the original campaign in GZDOOM but also comes with several good and forgotten mappacks. Thanks for the in-depth reply by the way :D 1 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 26, 2019 11 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said: Also check out the 'Doom 64 Retribution' TC by Nevander (the same guy who works on that E4 intermission screen), which not only recreates 90% of the original campaign in GZDOOM but also comes with several good and forgotten mappacks. Thanks for the in-depth reply by the way :D I'll surely do! And np! :) (Thank YOU by the first in-depth reply too) 1 Share this post Link to post
SirJuicyLemon Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 2:21 PM, ketmar said: yes! Kaiser wrote Doom64Ex -- reverse-engineered and ported D64 engine. i.e. this is not a GZDoom or something with bunch of scripts, it is genuine D64, disassembled and recreated. if you want to enjoy D64, this is musthave. ;-) I just finished playing it and it was freaking amazing! I totally had to play Doom 64 and that was the best way I can imagine to play it. Do you know if there's any PSX Doom version ported to PC in a similar way to enjoy? And btw, thank you so much for this recommendation! I loved it! 0 Share this post Link to post
ketmar Posted January 28, 2019 glad you liked it! as for other console ports -- i don't think that there are any "real" ones. the closest thing is to use console emulators. alas. or various GZDoom TCs. 0 Share this post Link to post
TheNoob_Gamer Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 1:24 AM, SirJuicyLemon said: I just finished playing it and it was freaking amazing! I totally had to play Doom 64 and that was the best way I can imagine to play it. Do you know if there's any PSX Doom version ported to PC in a similar way to enjoy? And btw, thank you so much for this recommendation! I loved it! Well, check out this PSXDoom remake on PC. 0 Share this post Link to post
