printz Posted February 23, 2019 When you saw doctor Betruger in Doom 3's first cutscenes, did you really expect him to be the main villain of the game? I didn't. He looked too obvious, like a bait character. I thought he'd turn out to be a merely cynical senior scientist who only cares about science and doesn't mind the demonic incidents if they can further help him with his studies (as long as he survives). I was almost shocked when, once I saw him contact the marine (on alerting the fleet), doctor Betruger revealed his true demonic self. No pretending or willingness to be anything less. I really believed in the guy. Then again, revealing an evil-sounding character as a good/neutral guy has been done to death (it's all this moral lesson not to judge people by looks), so it has become less cliché when they turn up to be true villains. The Matthew Costello novels make Betruger even creepier, too bad they're not that detailed and end abruptly. 2 Share this post Link to post
KVELLER Posted February 24, 2019 Yeah, I saw it coming on the very first cutscene. I guess it just didn't cross my mind that he could be a bait character. 3 Share this post Link to post
Arl Posted February 24, 2019 (edited) Yes. Here's my reasoning: Philosophiæ Doctor + German surname + old age + one white eye = Evil Character. Plus cocky and malicious foreshadowing sentences, a no brainer. 5 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted February 24, 2019 Pretty much what @Arl said above. Betruger has all the characteristics of a more-or-less-obvious antagonist. 3 Share this post Link to post
SiFi270 Posted February 24, 2019 It seems they made him that obvious because Willits wanted a simple plot. Before that, they wanted to throw around a red herring or two... On 1/7/2019 at 10:02 PM, hardcore_gamer said: In the original (and considerably more interesting) plot of Doom 3 Betruger starts as a secondary bad guy while General Hayden looks like he is the primary mastermind behind the demonic invasion, but after a while Betruger reveals himself to be the true mastermind after all. This was cut from the game because Tim (which we all know makes nothing but good decisions) thought this was "too much story". He also decided to remove various visions that the player was suppose to have during teleportation moments that gave glimpses into the ancient civilization on mars and hell's attacks on it, because that would simply have been too interesting to keep in the game. Feeding the story to the player via PDAs is much better storytelling. 4 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted February 24, 2019 Yep. Obvious main villain is obvious, from the very first cutscene, and after his demented laughs, I knew this. 0 Share this post Link to post
Chezza Posted February 24, 2019 I'm going to digress and bring up 1986 The Fly (the one with Jeff Goldblum). Speaking of bad guys being bait, what I thought was interesting was Stathis Borans, the annoying ex partner who bothers Geena Davis early in the movie, the type of character you would expect to be a predictable backstabbing selfish man who's sole purpose is to be the monster's fodder, actually becomes the hero who makes a selfless act to protect his ex. Sorry for the random thought. Please proceed. 3 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted February 24, 2019 On samedi 23 février 2019 at 10:34 PM, printz said: When you saw doctor Betruger in Doom 3's first cutscenes, did you really expect him to be the main villain of the game? I didn't. He looked too obvious, like a bait character. I didn't expect Doom 3 to feature plot twists. I didn't see it as the kind of game where they try to surprise you with the story. And well, I suppose I can say I was vindicated. (Didn't fully finish it, though.) So yeah, perhaps not the main villain, but an obvious villain nonetheless. 1 Share this post Link to post
Rampy470 Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) While I didn't think of it in these terms when I first played (being a kid and all), I kind of take it as the same kind of thing as in Shovel Knight where it's pretty obvious from the first cutscene who the Enchantress is. "Look, you're here to get spooked and shoot stuff. This here's the bad guy. We're establishing that now at the beginning so you can focus on the gameplay and atmosphere. Have fun!" 0 Share this post Link to post
printz Posted February 27, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 1:26 AM, Gez said: I didn't expect Doom 3 to feature plot twists. I didn't see it as the kind of game where they try to surprise you with the story. Well, I did expect plot twists, because Doom 3 was hyped as story intensive (along with everything else which has hyped), and I also had got to see games like Strife and the Blizzard games, full of plot twists, even if not formidable ones (good enough for game stories). Hell, Doom 3 got a professional writer onboard. I'd like to see the sources of @hardcore_gamer's statement about Tim Willits having redacted parts of Doom 3's story to make it idiot-proof. It's far too easy to blame Willits for anything, so I need some links. 1 Share this post Link to post
hardcore_gamer Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, printz said: Well, I did expect plot twists, because Doom 3 was hyped as story intensive (along with everything else which has hyped), and I also had got to see games like Strife and the Blizzard games, full of plot twists, even if not formidable ones (good enough for game stories). Hell, Doom 3 got a professional writer onboard. I'd like to see the sources of @hardcore_gamer's statement about Tim Willits having redacted parts of Doom 3's story to make it idiot-proof. It's far too easy to blame Willits for anything, so I need some links. It's mentioned in the book "The making of Doom 3". I don't know if there are any online sources. 1 Share this post Link to post
jupiter_ex Posted March 2, 2019 The proposition for the original post implies a level of depth in the plot that I've never ever seen in any Id Software game or it's Raven-outsourced ones (hell, in Wolfenstein 3, where there is a traitor they couldn't even be clear about who the traitor really was). From the moment Campbell and Swann looked flatly one-dimensioned in their introduction I assumed Betruger was one-dimensioned too. 0 Share this post Link to post
NoWits Posted March 2, 2019 No one's mentioned his semi-British accent yet? As soon as he opened his mouth I knew he was gonna be the Bad Guy, and the glass eye just clinched it. If there's someone with an english accent in an american production, they're nearly always the villain. I don't know what it is about our voices that make americans think we're so evil. 1 Share this post Link to post
hardcore_gamer Posted March 2, 2019 4 hours ago, NoWits said: No one's mentioned his semi-British accent yet? As soon as he opened his mouth I knew he was gonna be the Bad Guy, and the glass eye just clinched it. If there's someone with an english accent in an american production, they're nearly always the villain. I don't know what it is about our voices that make americans think we're so evil. Well, the UK government always appears to be doing evil things. Plus the imperials in star wars have english accents which doesn't help. I think it's because it's easy to stereotype the british as evil imperialists thanks to the british empire (which is probably why the imperials in star wars are british sounding). 0 Share this post Link to post
Count651 Posted March 3, 2019 Well, his name literally translates to deceiver/fraud in german. And the dude is old and bald as well, so yeah who else could have been the villain? 0 Share this post Link to post
Loud Silence Posted March 3, 2019 He looked suspicious. I think he turned real evil after that incident with hell portal. I wasn't surprised about Betruger, but i didn't expect a fight against Sergeant. 1 Share this post Link to post
printz Posted March 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Count651 said: And the dude is old and bald as well, so yeah who else could have been the villain? Satan, the chief demon from beyond the portal. 2 hours ago, Rimantas said: I think he turned real evil after that incident with hell portal. What if he was real evil all along?!! 0 Share this post Link to post
Loud Silence Posted March 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, printz said: What if he was real evil all along?!! Okay okay! :D Something was inside him, look at his one eye. 0 Share this post Link to post
hardcore_gamer Posted March 3, 2019 2 hours ago, printz said: What if he was real evil all along?!! An audio log in the lost missions confirms he was where it's revealed he was a satanic occultist even before the demonic invasion and that this in addition to the fact that he was in charge of the facility is the reason the demons contacted him (which they did through his dreams). 1 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) I must admit even when I was about 12/13 and first played Doom3, I thought it was way too obvious and there would be someone much worse way above him. They mas as well have had twirling his mustache and saying "I am Eeeevil!" but it had no impact on the game, I wasn't disappointed or anything when, sure enough, he was the main bad guy. I just found it almost hilarious in it's extreme level of predictability from a storytelling standpoint. 4 Share this post Link to post
cybdmn Posted March 4, 2019 Betruger(in fact it should be Betrüger) is german, meaning fraudster. Could it be more obvious? 0 Share this post Link to post
printz Posted March 4, 2019 6 hours ago, cybdmn said: Betruger(in fact it should be Betrüger) is german, meaning fraudster. Could it be more obvious? Assuming you know German, sure that helps. But I didn't; it sounded like a random surname to me. 3 Share this post Link to post
jupiter_ex Posted March 5, 2019 perhaps for the german version his name was Malcom Fraudster Satanic Occultist (?) 0 Share this post Link to post
KVELLER Posted March 6, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 7:58 AM, NoWits said: No one's mentioned his semi-British accent yet? I've only played the Spanish version of the game! :P I need to replay the game with the original voices sometime. 0 Share this post Link to post
MadGuy Posted March 8, 2019 Even through he was an obvious villain he was quite good on it and terrifying too. 0 Share this post Link to post
jupiter_ex Posted March 9, 2019 On 3/6/2019 at 6:59 PM, KVELLER said: I've only played the Spanish version of the game! :P I need to replay the game with the original voices sometime. Spanish from Spain right? Gosh I hope I never meet that thing 0 Share this post Link to post
KVELLER Posted March 10, 2019 On 3/9/2019 at 6:33 PM, jupiter_ex said: Spanish from Spain right? Gosh I hope I never meet that thing Yep. My english sucked back then, so I didn't have much of a choice if I wanted to understand what was going on. 0 Share this post Link to post