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DMPhobos

Darkmoon [New maps added!]

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This is all really awesome and impressive but I have to ask: Why didn't you make this for Doom 3?

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DooM_RO said:

This is all really awesome and impressive but I have to ask: Why didn't you make this for Doom 3?


Well on my side its because i though doom3 didnt have an map editor at that time (didnt know come integrated with the game) and i barely have some experience with 3d mapping (i only made just a few quake3 map for my rail freezer at that time and only for the server we use for personal use since adding "custom maps" to our popular server made people "stay away" from it for some odd reason) so pretty much thats the reason, i barely have some experience with q3radiant. probably after finishing this project with phobos, im going to make some maps for Sven Coop since i notice those maps are a lot cramped, criptic or barely enemy to kill.

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DooM_RO said:

This is all really awesome and impressive but I have to ask: Why didn't you make this for Doom 3?

Short answer, Doom 3 projects of this size take too long to make, and not to mention we wanted to use a bigger variety of monsters and items for our project. Also doom 3 combat is very slow paced for what we would like to make.

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This was really nice, an interesting implementation of Doom 3-influenced slower-paced gameplay with pretty much every familiar monster having a few tricks up its sleeve, and with some custom baddies to complement the traditional beastiary. The speed is obviously affected by the need to reload as well, encouraging more careful and attentive approach, as otherwise clips get empty in the least convenient moments. Grenades are a nice touch, too, doing a good work of clearing some breathing room either when there's too many attackers or when the main weapon is temporarily unavailable (reloading, duh).

The levels themselves are very nice, if only a bit flatly lit. The latter mostly applies to DMPhobos' maps, I liked the lighting of Storage Area better. Still, for an atmosphere-heavy mod both authors' works feature very frequent occurences of the same brightness level in areas with different light sources. That, and the overall feel of the maps combined with the music and the suspence they're building towards kinda require more thorough work on light/shadow contrasts. Some areas also beg to be darker, of course I'm not saying about Doom 3 levels of darkness, but more shadowy looks definitely wouldn't hurt here and there. Still, I believe that the lighting is still being worked on as I type all this, so maybe my input on that matter is a bit late.

Regarding Z0k's concerns - I think the monster placement of m03 is appropriate for this kind of map (if anything - mass shootout accompanying the red key acquisition was pretty intense), I honestly can't think of any other in such, uh, crate-heavy environments. And walls of meat from every direction I crave for so desperately all the time is obviously not something that'd suit this style of gameplay well. So, I think it's fine. However, I noticed that sometimes monsters failed to enter the alerted state even upon seeing the player, this mostly happened in bigger areas (said red key area comes to mind as the prime example). But then again, I don't remember anything like that in the peripheral exterior area that holds one of the exits, maybe a rejects issue in some specific places, hard to tell.
Unfortunately I can't say anything about dynamic lights affecting performance, upgraded my PC last year and can't really comment on anything related to FPS drops.

All in all - this is already quite competent guys, merging the better elements of Doom 3 with the traditional formula has formed an interesting enough take on all this Deimos stuff, not to mention your obvious skill at creating very detailed and nice-looking environments. Please keep it up!

P.S. By the way, it was kinda confusing that I found both secrets in map02 and seemingly explored it in its entirety, yet I killed only ~130 monsters out of 180. Where did the rest of the bastards go?..

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I've only managed to run through the first two maps so far, but I'm impressed with what I've played. Not too many are brave enough to go the Doom 3 approach and I think you guys nailed it. One big complaint I have though is I feel like even on UV map01's pacing is a tad too slow. It does start ramping up toward the end but in my run there was a lot more standing around pistoling scientist zombies than I would've liked.

Maybe try introducing tougher baddies like shotgunners and machinegun zombies earlier in the map? That ought to keep the tension high enough and avoid the monotony. One other thing - don't be afraid to be a little evil with the enemy placement now and then. While map02 definitely picked up the pace and started getting into the groove, the encounters had a tendency to feel predictable. Try making more use of enemies behind corners, maybe even some monster closets to keep the player on edge.

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@Demonologist:

since nobody have complained about heavy FPS drop due dynamic lights (and considering that most of the gzdoom mods use them) we probably can work only with them from now, of course on certain areas we can still rely on sector light (like those light floors on the train area in map03). but yeah light its something we will keep working until we find the good way make them work.

monster placement also its one of my main concerns im glad that map03 feels good in that term, about monsters dont activate it when see players i added some "cant see" lines flags i though could be a bit "hard" having monsters comings in waves in that big areas but then i realize could be unfair for monsters since players can shoot them down earlier. i will try to find a way to balance this since the big area of the storage area its where monsters have more spaces to get around the obstacles.

@prologue-9:
thanks for honest opinion in map01. maybe we can replace some of the scientist with imps or zombie pistol, or i can move the shotgun guys somewhere around the "mid place" of the map so player can get it and yet still killing bunch of baddies around (or even replace the stimp patch you get by crouching trough the vent with a shotgun so can be a reward for exploring and yet have to kill some baddies after get it)

about traps we still going to add them in late maps since map01 to 03 its to get used players to the new enemies behavior, from map05 on onwards maps will get more traps than the "piece of cake" that were map01 to 03. as well with new monsters since we want to introduce the monsters in earlier maps to make them common in late maps.

@PRIMEVAL:
glad you liked it! if you can give you feedback or what we can improve we would appreciate it too!.

we work around community feedback! so really many thanks for those honest opinion guys. :)

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@Demonologist
Thank you for your feedback, we are glad that you liked it, as for the light levels, im gonna make some changes to my maps to improve them. As for the map 02 monster count, im sure you could have missed an area, since we made some maps in a non linear style for exploration.

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Santos said:

i would like to test the maps, nice proyect, i can test it with GZDoom right?


of course, you only need the lastest Gzdoom version. (although mine version is 1-8-02 and still runs without trouble)

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It's still in progress, but sadly both z0k and i became stuck on our respective maps (not to mention that we don't have as much spare time as we used to make the maps) and for the moment we paused our maps while we figure how to move foward, but anyway if you're curious here are some screens of the old maps using doom 64 lighting (something we did before we became stuck on our maps), plus a couple of screen of the new maps we were working on

 

Spoiler

Kktn53o.png

nLNSAiX.png


Z0k's map05
MttLWLy.png
8Cgdzho.png

My very own map06
pEl5Idd.png
R52LUl7.png

 

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Aw man, I haven't seen this project at all so far. Gorgeous looking maps, I really want to try this out.

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Oh. My. God.

Darkmoon is a project that I've been replaying every year since the demo release from 2015. I just love its Doom 3 inspired atmosphere, the way it looks and feels. I know that the new Deus Vult, Sunder and BTSX are all the rage around these parts these days, but for me, the news of you continuing with this project are much, much more exciting. Hope that you'll finally be able to finish it. All the best wishes to you, guys. Make it happen!

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Well map05 is at 85% to be done, in my opinion i was about to ditch the map and make another because frankly the maps was just getting bigger and bigger, but phobos told me i shouldnt as the map looks fine. what it need to be done is just the red and yellow circle (which use those cards) the problem with the map were as soon i made a new area it just start to get more and more bigger. so now it just matter to connect the far right area with the big empty left area of the red circle which i going to add exit 1 and make yellow circle a small area with the exit 2.

CFKjh2S.png

 

it just matter to expand this area:

uEJLT2C.png

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@Z0k and @DMPhobos, would you guys mind giving a more detailed update on the project? The demo had four maps, first post in this thread lists two more as being in progress (although the said post is from 2015 and is probably outdated) and even four more maps as to be done. Not to rush you or anything, just genuinely interested in this mapset and where it stands at these days?

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well thats something i talked with phobos today. i dont have much progress on this one but this was the new map i was doing when i though i should scrap the map im working right now. but i only need to finish map05 (the waste plant) map 07 and map09. from that i think the last and secret map we going to work it togheter as i think it something its how should be done.

 

Spoiler

GLHE8QQ.png

iesJfhw.png

LGaWF2D.png

 

although isnt a lot, it just for now the center of the map, but i can say at least i have the new map  somehow already in the works. the thing is my mappers block, im just really giving a lot of effort in the map in working right now just to finish it. after the map is done i will probably ask for people giving me  a map texture pack to work to make a random map to work aorund my mappers block.

 

after all the maps are done probably im going to set all the light level to 128 or 112 and then from that point add the thing lights or the light colors just to make it look better. phobos in other hand is just checking right now darkmoon decorate to do some rebalancing to the monsters and weapons. besides of that probably i will take a look to the textures because its seems some are missing and other have a size that shouldnt have.

 

the only thing we would like is to have new sprites for the weapons i mean i know there is a pack with models that are sprites from doom 3 but they are screenies from models and that barely looks like sprites. but to be honest i just prefeer the sprites i dont know i think it gives a unique feel, sadly the only resource we have come from the old doom2.5 mod so pretty much those weapon sprites is what we have. we would like Urric to do the job but since his work keep him a lot busy he cant help at the moment. 

 

we work slowly and i apologize about that i think most of the slowdown come from my side because tbh after my last map work Threnody (i think that was how the map set tribute was called?) i didnt feel much to keep mapping due mappers block (which have last like 4 years) now im just trying to map and im just mindset to finish it because i honestly want at least this project to be finished already.

 

 

Edited by Z0k

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There's still a lot of work to do, but currently there's one map complete along with the one that one z0k's been working on. Since it's been a long time and to get some much needed feedback, there will be another alpha release soon with the new maps along with changes to the previous ones (they had doom 64 light implemented along with a texture change to hidfan's high quality doom 3 textures a long time ago), possibly the office map will get a big and much needed redesign, but it shouldn't take long.

As for what follows next, well the amount of maps remaining it's quite small and i feel things should go a lot smother now, there might not be another alpha, but who knows. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be changed or worked on before completion, but i think it will be done sooner than what people might expect
 

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@The Mysterious Moustachio darkmoon have the player 2-8 start as the map dont have any sort of complex scripts like strife, but even if we add scripts like for example if a player 1 enter to a room with a heavy fight and all the doors locks, we make sure to add a teleport for player 2 to get in.

 

most likely we going to do a revision to all the maps to be sure to add more monsters for coop mode.

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6 hours ago, Z0k said:

after the map is done i will probably ask for people giving me  a map texture pack to work to make a random map to work aorund my mappers block.

 

Try out OTEX!

 

Amazing screenshots as always, by the way. :D

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Wow, I like this cool mod! I remember I saw pics of it like years ago, and it's playable now. Thanks for all the efforts!

 

A little criticism:

  • The player will grab everything, even if the ammo/health cap is reached, and thus will waste many useful stuff for nothing.
  • Some switches are Doom 3 ones (e.g. elevator buttons at MAP01 with "lift up"/"lift down" titles), but those captions appear at a wrong time, like "lift up" while elevator is actually moving down. I believe this is because those switches are just retextured Doom ones, I think there should be ACS-based switches with a different behavior.
  • Also there are many Doom-style switches and buttons. I think it's not a good idea to mix such styles of Doom 1/2 and Doom 3.
  • At MAP03, near the exit to MAP04, there is a hangar door leading literally to the Deimos surface. I think there should be something like an airlock room before player can walk out. The one like those "exit rooms", for example. And more, every place that leads to the surface should have an airlock of some sort to make the area more natural.
  • Some "converted marines" are dodging unnaturally fast.
  • I wonder how would you like to configure the level progression? Hub system? Because to play MAP02 I used the console, is it supposed to be played with different paths and not all levels with a single playthrough?
  • MAP04: The button that lowers the pillar with a Soulsphere can be pressed only once. Intentional?
  • Some vent shafts lead to nowhere; it's better to make a shaft to go up, or create a lattice, or something.
  • MAP04: Health recharger approx. at (-280, 2575, 120); when empty, it shows "1" message at the center of the screen if pressed (don't remember if other rechargers behave the same way or not).
  • MAP03: Door hiding monsters approx. at (-6612, -490, 272) didn't open till the end of the map, but monsters were activated.
  • SSG reload sprites: there is one (or two) that looks like a Doomguy's hand is literally "inside of the SSG". :)
  • At the level's end (the room with an exit switch), it would be good to have a picture showing where we are going now.

 

What I like:

  • optional areas;
  • custom bestiary;
  • "new" weaponry;
  • "non-linear" progression;
  • huge levels (I played for 3-4 hours actually, this is more like a full episode than a demo);
  • R E A L I S M (woooh, I'm a sucker for natural environments; I personally would like to see actor-based props there: chairs, lamps, crates, etc.)
  • spiders! (but it's really bad how they disappear when killed...)

 

Played with GZDoom 3.7.1, it took 4 hours, found all-but-one secret (the missed one was at MAP04).

I really should have recorded the gameplay, didn't know it has so much content being a demo.

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@Mere_Duke Much appreciate the feedback!

 

*about the ammo is something phobos will fix on the next demo when map05 is already done.

 

*i know about swichtes i know is something "lazy" by my part but i feel those things we can left it to last when all maps are done (same with props because as you i like adding little details that make you feel you are in some sort of coherent base is the kind of maps i do)

 

*also know about the swichtes but sadly i dont have many options that looks like doom 3 buttons and using the few ones urric made for us would be hard for us to keep using just for doors and elevators. sadly urric is busy with many stuff so he cant help us with that from now.

 

*well i will see what i can do about that in map03, i only added those little corridors to outside areas with airlocks in map05.

 

*yeah some former humans do strafes to avoid damage, specially the ones with helmet and Zsecs, as monsters have little tricks in their sleeve, maybe my memory fails but i think no-helmet former humans have low chances to strafe, helmet ones maybe sometimes strafe and ZSecs strafe more commonly than helmet ones, as we though zombies also need "harder versions" of themlselves which could replace weak versions of them in later levels. when we started darkmoon we talked about what ideas we could give them to make them more dangerous, this way back to 2007? 2009? (phobos maybe can remember the date more than myself) but it comes from the time where jumping imps werent that common in doom wads (and phobos though they would look funny lol) but was about to make them hard to fight, we wanted players to be like "oh a pinky demon, ezpz just will fist him to death like i do in all wads" but then suddenly the damn demon strafe and ram towards you and bite you. and tbh i kinda happy how them fight you now, we used to play in coop mode in different wads using darkmood decorate to have a blast in classic wads.

 

*basically levels have 2 exits and you can choose which one you want to go, the only thing we need is just to add signs to which map such exit take you, i have the signs somewhere around my old darkmoon resources folder, will add them when i clean up the texture wad.

 

*Map04 i think is something phobos should check out.

 

*about the vents i add some of them leading to secrets  mostly, and the ones that dont have any path to follow are pretty much the ones where trites come out. i think i should make the vents that lead to a secret in map03 to show in map so players can tell where they can go in them.

 

*Map03 thanks for the headsup will check it as soon the new map is finished so the fix can be uploaded along the new map. missing tag i guess.

 

*sprites in general we cant do much about them, we dont have a spriter. maybe is something we can check later once the maps are finished as that can show the project is going somewhere.

 

*thats pretty much something i talked with phobos now that gzdoom let you use intro pic and exit pic on maps i want something similar to the loading map from doom3 showing you a screen of the map and a small description of it.

 

thanks again for the feedback! because this help us a lot to improve the project

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Thank you for the feedback, i know some stuff might not work properly at the moment, but this is an old release so an update should come soon with some revised stuff, some things you mentioned are planed such as showing were you're going when exiting a level to make progression more clear

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ruSsPvb.png

pyadf8C.png

IZDUpCR.png

 

last 2 screens is the style i want for the last map before tower of babel. also i just want to ask you guys, how are your settings for sector light in gzdoom? because i think mine is quite dark and thats why i want to avoid sector bright level from 128 to below, because for my gzdoom if i play a map which uses sector brigthness 128 and below i barely can see something.

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I might be an odd one in the bunch but I always use 'standard' sector light settings.

Also, these screenshots are gorgeous (as always)!

 

Very excited for this set to see release.

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