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Emreel

Is Doom Marine, Doom Slayer?

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Doom Marine was the protagonist of the original games.

 

Doom Slayer was the protagonist of Doom 2016.

 

Quake Champions says they're the same person, and Doom Slayer is simply what the demons named him.

 

Whether you accept that as canon is up to you. Ultimately either is fine, everyone will know who you mean. 

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Thought you meant Huy Pham, but he made the best map pack ever so he probably is.

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I'm not convinced on the evidence and theories of them being the same. I find it a little bit far fetched and lazy writing to say it's the same marine in multiple dimensions or hopping around them. That reminds me of a Marvel comic.

 

Personally I see them all as their own interpretations of Doom, all are reboots and suited for their own version of the Doom universe.

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I feel like theres not enough information to link the two. I just feel like theyre the two dont have enough links to each other. Doom Marine is better anyway

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Doom was never known for its story and Doom 2016 attempted to once again retcon everything, but it did it in a way that didn’t take itself too seriously, remembering the source material. Instead of trying to do another gritty reboot, they did a gritty reboot where you are pulled out of hell to help out with a demonic invasion as the lore says you have done across time and dimensions. Doom 2016 makes alternative dimensions besides hell canon and also attempts to rope in all other Doom content, official or otherwise, under the canon, which I think was very cool of them from an emotional storytelling standpoint. The doom marine was always “you” and Doom has over two decades of a heavy modding community. The Doom 2016 storyline basically does a syncretic retcon that gives a nod to every disjointed iteration of Doom as well as every user-made mod. The Doom slayer is you in yet another world that needs your help, woken up again.

 

At the end of one of the original Dooms you decide to stay in hell to contain things, Doom 2016 canonizes the slayer as being in hell doing exactly that across the multiverse. So I would argue in favor of this theory because it allows new storylines, keeps the “you are the marine” meta narrative, and provides emotional closure as well as community recognition to the series allowing it go forward for what it is without contradiction.

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On 4/1/2019 at 12:43 PM, Emreel said:

Title speaks for itself, and i need an answer.

Here I give you my little theory, you don't have to believe me at all. Take it as a guide and remember, You are the Doom Protagonist, accepting this fact, you will know the true story.

 

Here the theory:

 

Original timeline: (First Generation 1993-2004)

Spoiler

 

Ultimate Doom->Doom2->Final Doom (two split timelines or both canon)->Doom64 = Original Doom Marine, You.

 

You "Doom Marine" got to Mars, home of the UAC as a punishment for having assaulted your superior officer. Now you are working for the UAC as a janitor but then an emergency occured and you and your buddies (the only combat troop) were sent up to Phobos and you, only you were at the Doom's Gate. Upon killing Spider Mastermind in Hell, you realized she had sent its legions of Hell-Spawn before you reached Dis and now your next stop is Hell on Earth. You battle the demons and save humanity after closing the Hell-Hole in Earth by entering in it and killing its creator: the Icon of Sin, the only one able to open massive Hell Holes and sucking everything into Hell (this could explain why there are some Earth buildings in Hell). You save the Earth and now it must be rebuilt after killing all of the remaining demons in No Rest For The Living.

In Final Doom Episode: you could consider playing TNT first and then Plutonia or you can also consider them as two separated timelines, you choose your destiny:

After having beaten the icon of Sin and its minions, the UAC was worried about another Hellish invasion and then decided to move to another place in the galaxy: Io, Jupiter's moon and then, UAC soldiers became warriors that were fighting Hell every time  demons teleported themselves in our dimension as you became their Master. But later Hell sent its Space ship to invade Io, only you survived this invasion and you decide to revenge your fallen soldiers. You find another Hell Hole in Io and you reached Hell going through it and then you beat the Demon-Spitter (another Icon of Sin). You are back on Earth and the UAC and governments took steps to prevent another Demon invasion, but this time they built an interesting actifact called the "Quantum Accelerator" a device able to close Demon portals instantly but Hell was even smarter: It sent its legions to take the Quantum Accelerator and its prototypes and Hell started to used them to change our reality and thus creating alternated dimensions were you travelled to fight Hell and defeating the Gatekeeper (another Icon of Sin). You thought you were finally done even you thought telling your grandkids to put a rocket launcher in your coffin if you go to Hell when you die but...You were wrong...absolutely wrong...The Mother Demon, a demon that is from higher Hellish dimensions have come to resurrect all of the Demons you killed once and even those located in Phobos. You were re-assigned to a new mission: Go back to Phobos and kill them all. You never thought you were going back to Phobos again, it was just like story was repeating again. The first time you fought Hellish forces you were too tough to be contained in Hell but this time...You were finally contained in Hell. All Hell wanted is You. Your Doom. The End.

 

 

Second timeline: (Second Generation 2004-2016)

Spoiler

                                                                               

Doom3->Doom2->Final Doom (two split timelines or both canon)->Doom64 = Original Doom Marine, You.    

                                                                       -

Other Marines in Doom3-> Resurrection/Lost Missions= Bravo Team Guy >Resurrection of Evil= Marine Combat Engineering Guy. Two years later.

 

 

You "Doom Marine" were sent to Mars, home of the UAC in order to replace a lost marine. Your first mission was finding Dr. Jonathan Ishii that wanted to alert Earth about the diabolical things happening on Mars but a Hell invasion occured and you were there to tell it. You were battling Hellish forces in the base until you received orders from Sargent Kelly to alert the Fleet but UAC admin Elliot Swann ordered you not to do it (if you do. you have alerted the Fleet to come and demons will take their ships to bring this Hell to Earth. If you don't, Betruger will do it himself and demons will take their ships to bright this Hell to Earth,hahahahaha) Later you realized Betruger is the one behind the invasion and he the Mastermind for the forces of Hell. Once you get Hell and defeating the Guardian, you gloat over its steaming corpse and you were able to recover the Soul Cube from the stinking claws of Hell. Now you are back on Mars and you must defeat Sabaoth, the demonic form of Sargeant Kelly, once you kill him you reached Site 3: (in this part Doom3 became a different story with these mysterious tablets where the fourth tablet shows a man that looks like you, wear the same armor like you and also carries the Soul Cube, just like you. here you realize you are seeing your future written in the past, a past you have never seen or been before. Your future has been revealed to you by other you in the past. Now you are on the final level of Doom 3 and you see a sarcophagus in the Chamber's Hero. You are the one who is looking at that sarcophagus and the one who's inside that sarcophagus; Cyberdemon awaits for you and you were able to kill him with the help of the Praeleanthor (the Soul Cube)

Betruger realized you were too tough to contain and now he plays fair--for you having closing the Hell-Hole and stopping the invasion to rest for 3 days until the Supply ship entered the base and found you safe and sound. You save the Mars base by killing and killing and killing. What they don't say when you reach Earch is that you were the only survivor. Little you know that the Fleet reached Mars after the alert message and were killed by the Demons, including the Resurrection/Lost missions Bravoguy (Doom3 Resurrection for Ipod and Lost Missions episodes. Lost missions mirrors the events present in Doom3 Resurrection) and demons took their ships. Next stop: Hell on Earth.

 

Two years later: Resurrection of Evil. (it might break the canon)

 

Second alternate timeline: (Second Generation 2004-2016)

Spoiler

 

Doom RPG->Doom2->Final Doom (two split timelines or both canon)->Doom64 = Original Doom Marine, You.    

 

Other Protagonists in this timeline: Doom2 RPG = Stan Blazkowicz and friends. One year later.

 

 

You "Doom Marine" got sent to Mars in order to fight a demonic invasion in the UAC. A scientist said: "We're Doomed" upon seeing you were the only one sent to fight the demons, but he was wrong... you made your way out through the base and realized the UAC admins are behind this or may even be possesed by something. You are helped by Dr. Kelvin and Dr.Jenkins to find out who is the responsible to activate the Reactor Core and thus freeing the demons from their prison, it was nobody else that Dr. Guerard also known as Kronos, a scientist that was fired upon travelling to another Dimension and fusing human technology with demon flesh to create a super weapon (Cyberdemon) but he is back and you fought Kronos in his true form: A demonic creature that belongs to higher Hellish Dimensions with extreme power and being the Mastermind of demons. You kill him and you also destroy his power couplings that were having the portal active. Once you destroyed them, a creature managed to go through: the Cyberdemon! An evil being that was searching for you to get his revenge of what your ancestor did in the past. But you were too tough to be defeated and the Cyberdemon died first. You save the Mars base by killing and killing and killing and now you are making your way home. What they don't say about you is that you were the only survivor. Next stop: Hell on Earth.

 

One year later, some marine detachment were sent to Mars to see what happened there, but they did't get any results. They thought that some kind of explotion or pandemia affected the base. Once they were heading to Earth, they receive a distress call from the Moon base that something evil started to appear in the base. They battled the invasors only to realize UAC bases on Earth were invaded as well. Now Stan Blazkowicz, Kira Morgan and Riley O'connor must stop this Hell on Earth in Doom2 RPG (it might break the canon).

 

Third timeline: (Third Generation 2016-Present)

Spoiler

First timeline->Doom2016->Doom Eternal

Second timeline->Doom2016->Doom Eternal

Second Alternate timeline->Doom2016->Doom Eternal

 

You can find many references to these timelines in Doom 2016.

You "Doom Marine" found yourself in Site 3 base on Mars, home of the UAC, inside a sarcophagus awaking after a voice in your mind spoked to you. It seems you don't know what you are doing here but you know where you are in. You grab your gear, now your ready for combat. Then you met Dr.Samuel Hayden that want to make a deal with you but you refuse to hear him. You already have a mission in your mind: Get out of here and destroy the demon invasion, it looks like easy task but not at all. Samuel Hayden is telling you what to do and what don't with his Argent Energy. You later meet Dr. Olivia Pierce, leader of the cult under the Dark Lords and Mastermind of the Hellish invasion. Her dark intentions: Awaking the Bukavac, The Icon of Sin.

You travel through Hell and you hear stories, tales about you and your greatness but you can remember at all. You have some memories but they don't help too much, the tales say You wore the Crown of the Night Sentinels, something you can not remember exactly. They also tell that the Seraphim helped you in your crusade and He gave you more power and speed not like before and also you were able to kill the Titan: lord of the Shadows and with his defeat all Shadow Hordes were defeated, they also tell you found the Wretched Betrayer whose name mustn't be named and he with his heresy gave you a powerful armor capable of absorbing your enemies' power and he also gave you a shield and a sword to kill all the demons, but some priests were smarter than you thought and they put a trap to you and you failed with your mission. They finally could contain you in Hell despite you were too tough at first. It was your Doom...But you can't remember those acts exactly, you guess you need an anwser but you must continue with your mission. Now you have to beat the Cyberdemon, Lord of the Shadows (he is waiting for you) and get the Crucible from Hell Guardians claws and go after Olivia Pierce that is located in the Realm of Gods: Argent D'Nur. Once you get there, you must stop the well by stopping the Argent Energy coming out from the Wraits: Elemental beings from Argent D'Nur. And then, your Final confrontation with the terrible beast from Hell: Spider Mastermind, Arachnea Imperatrix, Goddess of the Fourth Age. And the loathsome Olivia Pierce turned into Spider Demon that masterminded the Mars base invasion and caused soo much death has had her ass kicked for all time. you were too tough to contain and at least Hell plays fair--Now you have completed your mission and Samuel Hayden congratulate you but under a cost: VEGA and Argent. Samuel is not going to kill you and he grabbed the Crucible from your hands, It seems he doesn't need you for this time and is going teleport you to you don't know where... Now you wonder where Samuel Hayden is going to send you after battling the evil unleashed, it could be good thing that no Hell Spawn could have teleported with you...

 

References:

1)You are located in Site 3. Site 3 is a level in Doom 3 that changed story drasticaly by keeping the tablets that tell a story of war with impossible acts.

2)You were in a sarcophagus. in Doom 3 you saw your sarcophagus in the final level. Also the Doom franchise was in a sarcophagus during hell development in Doom 4 until the release of Doom 2016 in May 13th.

3)Olivia Pierce, similar character to Dr. Betruger and Dr. Guerard.

4)The First Age, the First Battle, Age of Ascension for Hell after absorbing Argent D'Nur. Another unseen episode just like Doom 3's tablets. Your future written in the past. A reference to Original Doom release.

5) the Seraphim might be the Soul Cube. It also might be a reference to an Id member with lastname Serafín

6)the battle against the Titan. Some people say the Titan is the big skull presented in Titan's Realm although the skull is everywhere but people can be right. To me, after reading many times: in the Third Age, there was a war in Titan's realm between the Lord of Shadows and Doom Slayer and the Lord of the Shadows fell in Doom Slayer's hands. This Titan was later found by the UAC and with it created the Cyberdemon. A reference to Doom RPG and Wolfenstein RPG. The latter showed a reference when you fought the Cyberdemon for the very first time in Doom. This situation was also mirrored  in Doom3 and Doom RPG.

7)the Wretched Betrayer: its name is a reference to Dr.Betruger, the one who betrayed the UAC and open the portal to Hell. Note: Betrüger doesn't mean Betrayer.

8)Contained in Hell in a sarcophagus forever: In Doom, you were too tough for Hell to be contained but in Doom64 you decided to remain in Hell to prevent demons rising again. But you never thought Hell won, Hell finally contain you. in Doom 3 we were too tough as well to be contained but we were already contained in a sarcophagus as the Hero (reference to our past live in the original Doom as players). Sadly Id stopped making Doom games for a long time and Doom was also sealed in a sarcophagus but not forever: Doom was out in Doom 2016 again with success. 

9)Mother Demon, Cherub, Kronos and Wraiths from Doom2016 are related, just look at their designs.

When you deactivate the Argent Energy from the Wraiths, is a reference to Doom RPG: "Sever the arteries to silence the Mouth of Evil" when destroying the Power Couplings in order to close the portal.

Edited by Gerardo194 : fixing typos

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It's -implied- in Doom 2016, mostly by suggesting that he's been fighting hell for a crap ton of time, and by invoking the Icon of Sin in the histories. 
On it's own, it doesn't mean too much, because no record specifies any particular thing from the original Doom's (dying on Phobos, the old UAC, teleportation experiments, etc). The biggest, most direct link however, comes from Doom 64, which ends with the marine deciding to stay in Hell and keep killing any demons that try to rise up again. 

 

All in all, it -can- work as a real sequel, but it can just as well work as it's own thing.

 

Quake Champions does make some direct claims, but how canonical it is to Nu-Doom (or even Wolfenstien for that matter) is uncertain. Quake 3 was made by iD itself, and it's characters had all mostly done the things they were doing, so they could have been plucked up into the Arena Eternal at some distant future. Doom Slayer, however, is very much in his original Praetor suit, without the Doom Blade or Crucible sword, which sort of places his involvement in Champions either prior to or immediately after Doom '16. Likewise, B. J is also still in his original body, not the super soldier one (AFAIK), so again, if we say "Quake Champions is canon", the question is "how and when". 

 

Which is to say; it seems  a little harder to put the Wolf, Doom and Quake universes together since their respective re-imaginings than it was prior to the 2000's. 

 

Personal head-cannon: Yes, Doom Slayer is OG Doom Guy. Head-cannon further has it that Wolf and Doom are still in the same universe, and that Quake Champions is Bethesda's Heroes of the Storm; based on lore, but not really in charge of it. 

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As far as I know, the Doomslayer could have been the marine from Doom 64, as he did stay in hell to fend off the demon hordes at the end. And eons later, the demons could have captured him and put him to rest in the sarcophagus.

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I don't think they are the same. Doom Guy had an established (though pretty short) backstory about him being an ordinary marine, who got exiled, due to his crime of not following the orders. Doom Slayer is like a god-tier-being with lengthy scrolls of mythos and legacy attached, I only dipped my toe into, in fear of drowning in this epic stuff.

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37 minutes ago, incel said:

I don't think they are the same. Doom Guy had an established (though pretty short) backstory about him being an ordinary marine, who got exiled, due to his crime of not following the orders. Doom Slayer is like a god-tier-being with lengthy scrolls of mythos and legacy attached, I only dipped my toe into, in fear of drowning in this epic stuff.

 

They're not mutually exclusive and I don't know why people act like they are.

 

Everything that we know of the original marine happens before Doom Guy ends up in Hell, makes his way to Argent D'nur, goes native, is accepted as one of the Night Sentinels, has a family, loses his son, etc... All lines up perfectly with the fact that it is said he has moved through dimensions and time. 

 

Not only does it work, but it's actually perfect, that way.

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45 minutes ago, OpenMaw said:

 

They're not mutually exclusive and I don't know why people act like they are.

 

Everything that we know of the original marine happens before Doom Guy ends up in Hell, makes his way to Argent D'nur, goes native, is accepted as one of the Night Sentinels, has a family, loses his son, etc... All lines up perfectly with the fact that it is said he has moved through dimensions and time. 

 

Not only does it work, but it's actually perfect, that way.

 

Mostly agree, though about his "having a son"... I keep seeing some people equate him with the betrayer, who made a deal with hell to save his son. Wasn't that someone else though?

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16 hours ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

 

Mostly agree, though about his "having a son"... I keep seeing some people equate him with the betrayer, who made a deal with hell to save his son. Wasn't that someone else though?

From what I can tell, the Betrayer is a separate individual.

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