A Small Tech Base. (Slaughter Map)

Good evening everyone. I've made an attempt at making a slaughter wad. I'd greatly appreciate some feedback about what I could do better in regards to encounter management, ammo distribution, and invuln usage. Map is completable from pistol start to finish. This is my first attempt at making a slaughter themed map like this. So I hope it doesn't suck TOO badly. I would also like advice regarding the final arena of the map.

Screenshots:

There's not a lot to say about this map other than it has some pretty brutal fights and nonlinearity. 

Map info: Replaces MAP16 in Doom 2. (randomly picked. no real reason behind it.)

Difficulty: Hard

Length: Lengthy

Combat: Heavy

Techbase: Small

Mouselook: Encouraged in case some mobs are too high. 

Jumping: Not intended. 

Compatibility: Boom or higher.

No Difficulty settings. UV or bust.

Monster count: Yes.

Wad File: A Small Tech Base.zip

Changelog: Altered a teleport destination to better help the player find the BFG. Added some Health and Rockets in some locations. Changed some textures around to be less confusing. Fixed a few bugs and made some monsters easier to hit without freelook.

Good shit. im terrible and therefor used god mode for about half of the play session, but i was still entertained for 45 minutes, so i think that's a good sign.

You had a few moments of complete and utter cunt-mode fights- assuming that was the intention, nice.

There's a lack of detail, and fuck fireblu, but otherwise, i liked it. I'm sure people who are actually good at doom will enjoy this level.

Edit because you asked for advice on the final arena, i don't really have advice per-se but i did find it relatively confusing, particularly the part where you

Played for about 15 minutes, just for a taste. I saw a lot of creative staging ideas -- the plasma rifle lowered by a computer panel switch was my favorite. I like how each 'zone' has its own tasks and gameplay flavor associated with it. So there is definitely potential in your approach. 

As far as visuals and combat, it feels somewhat rough, as might be expected from an early-career map. The action (outside) felt 'baggy'. There are a lot of monsters, but there is even more space, so much of the time you are being lightly pestered by some miscellany mob that can't corner you. I didn't always have much of a clear idea what I needed to do, so I spent more time than desirable cleaning that stuff up.

The most questionable placement I saw involved the dozens of fireblu-perched revenants. The benefit of their harassment is clear, but I wouldn't want to kill those except with (inefficient) BFG shots, because they can juke rockets since their platforms have so much space. Sometimes in slaughtermaps, it is monsters like that, and not the hundreds of more accessible ones, that run the risk of making the map a slog. So it would be good if all those fireblu platforms lowered at some point, if that isn't wired up already. 

I enjoyed myself for about 1500 kills. I actually really like the first third or so where I was running around outside thinning the place out and dealing with some of the larger fights. I also really liked the yellow key run. Kinda Mt. Pain-ish. Then it was the red key area (and the fact that I should actually do some work) that made me quit. I had questioned the "slaughter" designation at first, but then I stopped questioning it and incidentally stopped having fun. It was all challenging for sure, but I lose interest in arena-ish extreme slaughter setpieces that are long and/or unwinnable. Keep in mind that if there's a BFG, I never found one, which certainly would have made that section quicker/possible.

As for some of the things you asked about, I think I only found one invulnerability, which I thought was a good use of it - I wasn't able to clear the entire encounter before it wore off. I thought ammo was fine. I usually alternated between low-ish on rockets or plasma, and I like that. I don't like maps where you have infinite ammo for all intents and purposes. It also took me a bit to find the rocket launcher.

Also keep in mind I'm no slaughter expert or aficionado, so you can probably safely disregard everything I say. I really only played this because I was very curious after just playing your other map. But I did have a lot of fun with the layout and many of the encounters.

@rdwpa @HAK3180

Hey guys. Thanks for playing my map. I appreciate you taking the time to play it.

Rdwpa. Would you suggest replacing the revanents with a fatter target that can eat rockets/plasma easier? Like a mancubi or arach? Or maybe just a couple of imps. 

HAK3180: YEah, the Red key area isn't a lot of fun without the BFG. Its rough and brutal with a lot of meat. I know you don't usually play slaughter, but your criticisms are valid nonetheless. I'm gonna tweak a couple teleporters and textures to better direct the player towards the BFG. because it is there, and it is grabbable before any of the keys. 

BFG Location

Updated Wad file. Changes are in the Changelog beneath the file.

23 hours ago, Alfredo said:

Rdwpa. Would you suggest replacing the revanents with a fatter target that can eat rockets/plasma easier? Like a mancubi or arach? Or maybe just a couple of imps. 

 

Just spotted this. I think they play their role fine especially in the opening and mid-game, and they would be fine as long as they are easy to clean up, for example by lowering the turrets at some point.

Mancubi and arachnotrons change the dynamic a lot. They would be less threatening than revenants perched so high and in such a big space, since their projectiles have a way of going over your head as long as you keep moving, while revenant rockets can still halfheartedly track you as they descend. But their projectiles contribute more visual noise, so they might feel more threatening. So it's definitely a different idea, and not a fix. Imps would be amusing to hurl rockets into, I guess. I'd suggest going with whatever is your preference, since none of these ideas are straightforward improvements over the others -- they all change the character of the action too.

5 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

snip

I'm assuming you're refering to the north western fireblu ramparts. The revenants there become much easier to deal with once you're up there with them at a later point in the map. Much easier to hit once you can land a solid SSG shot into them. So I think they're fine as they are right now. 

There is some kind of invisible wall  near the portal to get out of the area with the invuln/rocket launcher/SSG ( I of course rocketed it my first attempt at the map and died).

Megasphere pick up trap with 2 hell knights.. you can hit the switch through the wall to leave and also the wall takes way to long to lower.

So all the rev/other monster snipers around the map make the outside area a constant threat in terms of you have to keep moving/looking for projectiles coming from behind you but as RD said.. they are very annoying to kill with rockets and you have to deal with at least the revs I would say... So what you could do is put monster block lines around them and force them to be standing in one spot.. might look a little weird but then they won't be to much of an issue for people who don't use mouselook.

The BFG fight was funny.. pick up a blursphere cause of the mastermind then lower the BFG to see those 3 cyber demons :p (idk if that was intended though since you could plasma the masterminds down first).

The final area was my favorite fight but only because I Rushed the switches and triggered everything at once.. The option to take it slower is fine for less experienced players. 

I think the main areas to improve on is the outside areas cause as RD kind of said,  its like running around trying to pick off small mobs and snipers instead of leading towards any real progression... all the more Arena based fights were much better.

23 minutes ago, Bdubzzz said:

There is some kind of invisible wall  near the portal to get out of the area with the invuln/rocket launcher/SSG ( I of course rocketed it my first attempt at the map and died).

Megasphere pick up trap with 2 hell knights.. you can hit the switch through the wall to leave and also the wall takes way to long to lower.

So all the rev/other monster snipers around the map make the outside area a constant threat in terms of you have to keep moving/looking for projectiles coming from behind you but as RD said.. they are very annoying to kill with rockets and you have to deal with at least the revs I would say... So what you could do is put monster block lines around them and force them to be standing in one spot.. might look a little weird but then they won't be to much of an issue for people who don't use mouselook.

 

The BFG fight was funny.. pick up a blursphere cause of the mastermind then lower the BFG to see those 3 cyber demons :p (idk if that was intended though since you could plasma the masterminds down first).

 

The final area was my favorite fight but only because I Rushed the switches and triggered everything at once.. The option to take it slower is fine for less experienced players. 

 

I think the main areas to improve on is the outside areas cause as RD kind of said,  its like running around trying to pick off small mobs and snipers instead of leading towards any real progression... all the more Arena based fights were much better.

Thanks for taking the time to play my map. 

As far as the invisible wall is concerned. I could not find it in GZDoom. I shot rockets everywhere and could not find an invisible wall in the Rocket launcher arena. Would you mind providing a screenshot?

For the BFG fight. I provided an invis mainly to deal with the SMM. But it was pretty funny to open a closet full of cyberdemons, so I left that as is. They are pretty helpful when dealing with the baron horde.

Glad you liked the final fight!

I went and did as you suggested and put the revs in boxes so they are easier to hit. should help alleviate some frustration. What can I do to spruce up the main outdoor area though? I'm not sure what I should do for fear of breaking the openness of the map.