Paradise [v2.1 multiplayer release || 10/11/2020]

3 hours ago, Tango said:

noted! did you have any specific situations in mind on Casual/Light that you felt were too harshly balanced? or was it more across the board? I'm definitely open to making more adjustments on the lower difficulties though, as yeah I would like this to be as accessible as possible. I think a lot of the more in-depth feedback I've gotten so far has been from folks that tend to play on higher difficulties, so I would definitely not be surprised if the target audience for Light/Casual is not as well catered to as they should be.

I felt like it ramped up very quickly, I'm not an ubergod Doom player or anything but I can complete wads like Sunlust, etc. and I was struggling a little by the 3rd map. One thing to consider is that there are new mechanics, enemies and weapons etc. in play here so that can have a bit of a learning curve to throw on top of the existing difficulty.

3 hours ago, Tango said:

it would be awesome someday for Paradise to just be one episode of many in a larger megawad or something - but I'm going to just sort of see where my inspiration takes me and go from there. but in any case, I do intend to keep building similar GZDoom mapsets with this gameplay mod, whether it's more ambitious episodes like this, or some smaller ones that don't take me so goddamn long to produce. some sort of collab would be awesome too! hopefully after I release the standalone gameplay mod from Paradise in a few weeks, other folks might start to show some interest in building stuff for it, so we'll see where that goes.

Understood. I hope people are watching what you're up to because I think you're really onto something here. I'm kind of reminded of how Valiant rejiggered the Doom experience in more subtle ways, this is more extreme but very entertaining and works quite well. I noticed you mentioned mapping not being your strongest suit, I thought the maps were pretty strong but collabbing with one or several of the communities top mappers could really produce an incredible megawad that would probably feel almost like an entirely new game. 

updated to RC1! there are still a number of things on my todo list before a final release, but I think the label "release candidate" is more telling of the state of the project than "beta," which makes it sound somewhat incomplete. the download link in the OP has been updated. here's a rough changelog:

• made minor health/ammo rebalancing across most maps; in most cases, Extreme was made a tiny bit more extreme, and the other difficulties were toned down very slightly
• made the entrance to the secret maps slightly more visible
• swapped the alt midi music for map05 to map03, and added a new alt midi for map05
• made some minor visual changes to the AR, rocket launcher, and BFG when firing to make them feel a bit more impactful
• fixed some potential stuck-out-of-bounds spots and add a tiny bit of anti-cheese (like the main outdoor fight in map05; you can no longer retreat to the beginning to cheese that fight)
• added proper Tags to all the monsters and pickups, so that mods like Target Spy work properly

I also want to give a special shoutout to @Vyre for being a goddamn angel and helping very thoroughly test all of the maps (several times even!!), without which I would be but a lost soul.

here's all of my major remaining todos before considering the release final:
 

tl;dr if you haven't played yet, now is as good a time as any, but you're not missing anything if you've already played all the maps

9 hours ago, Tango said:

add a separate "reject map" episode to the pack, consisting of ~25 playable speedmaps of mine from the past ~2 years 

Does this technically mean... a Tango megawad?

So how many more additions you plan to make to the "main" lineup? Psyched to play the final version :)

The map05 change is good because it changes the dynamics of the diabloist and cyberdemon fight to be a bit more unpredictable and chaotic. However, you can still cheese the rev reveal at the rocket launcher switch by simply eliminating the diabloist quickly with rocket spam and sitting right up in the corner where the switch was. Because of the crescent shape of the area, almost all of the revs will just get funnelled to the opposite end where they can't touch you and are easy to spam down with the ssg.

That said, I can't find a reliable way to get through that fight without cheesing it that way. If i play aggressively I just get overwhelmed and cornered most of the time because the revs flood the narrow chokepoints and form a solid wall without an efficient way of cutting a path. That arena before the nukage is raised - both parts, though the second reveal is much easier to manage - are probably the hardest fight in the map now.

e: on extreme, to clarify

1 hour ago, Catpho said:

Does this technically mean... a Tango megawad?

So how many more additions you plan to make to the "main" lineup? Psyched to play the final version :)

haha it technically will be, yeah. but be warned that the speedmaps are all of quite varying quality, and I don't know if I'll get around to implementing difficulty settings for them. they range from tiny 30-minute-speedmapped shootouts to slightly more longform but still unrefined speedmaps to the occasional more polished map. they're definitely not intended to be a primary draw to play Paradise, just a little something extra for curious folks or anyone looking to poach map bits or gameplay ideas

to answer the second question though, zero :( I think I really chose poorly when I decided to call this a "beta," because I never intended to add any more main maps, just refine and balance them. my bad everyone D: so next time I release something I think I'm going to just start by calling it a release candidate to reduce confusion

48 minutes ago, koren said:

However, you can still cheese the rev reveal at the rocket launcher switch by simply eliminating the diabloist quickly with rocket spam and sitting right up in the corner where the switch was. Because of the crescent shape of the area, almost all of the revs will just get funnelled to the opposite end where they can't touch you and are easy to spam down with the ssg.

hmm alright I'll play around with this one a bit more on Extreme then, appreciate the feedback :D my strategy is usually similar to this (clear out the diab first with rockets), but I don't think I have issues usually playing that fight a bit more in the open against the revs, rather than funneling around the corner. but yeah I'll play it again and see what adjustments should be made both for the sake of balance and anti-cheese

RC2 is here! a quick summary of the changes:

• Added a 25-map episode of speedmaps and scraps that I've accumulated over the last few years. There is now an episode selection screen to choose between Paradise or this bonus episode. These bonus maps vary in quality, but my personal favorites are MAP33, MAP42, MAP45, MAP51, and MAP55. Difficulty settings are present in most maps, but as many of these are speedmaps, they are not as well balanced as the main Paradise episode. All bonus maps are playable from start to exit. Check out the BONUS MAPS INFO info section in the OP for more info!
• Added the option for automatic pistol starts thanks to the fantastic IDCLEVer mod by @m8f. Paradise is still compatible with the full IDCLEVer mod if you want all the other options that it comes with, as Paradise only includes the pistol start option
• Added a second HUD (use the + and - keys on your keyboard to cycle through the HUDs), and as a convenience, added the native GZDoom option for HUD scale into the Paradise Options section too. This 2nd alternative HUD uses bigger numbers, and also displays all your ammo counts
• Re-added the ability for monster-fired rockets to beep, to appease DOOT-lover's such as myself and @galileo31dos01. this option is off by default, but I strongly recommend using it if you don't like getting hit by a silent Cyb rocket from a mile away

OP has been updated with a download link and some more info as per this update

major remaining todos:

I get a crash when trying to load the new rc with gzdoom 4.1.2:

 

Quote

 

Script error, "t-paradise2_rc2.pk3:actors/monsterrocket.zs" line 14:
Unknown identifier 'tango_monster_rocket_fly_sound'
Function without prototype needs register info manually set: TangoRocket.StateFunction.0

Execution could not continue.

1 errors while parsing DECORATE scripts

 

1 hour ago, koren said:

I get a crash when trying to load the new rc with gzdoom 4.1.2:

weird. it's working fine for me on 4.0.0, so I'll upgrade today and try to fix this error and reupload. thanks for reporting it mate!

1 hour ago, Tango said:

 

weird. it's working fine for me on 4.0.0, so I'll upgrade today and try to fix this error and reupload. thanks for reporting it mate!

You commented out some cvars while still using tango_monster_rocket_fly_sound in monsterrocket.zs

If someone desperately want to try Paradise ATM, just open MonsterRocket.zs file and replace "tango_monster_rocket_fly_sound" with "0"

8 minutes ago, Mere_Duke said:

You commented out some cvars while still using tango_monster_rocket_fly_sound in monsterrocket.zs

If someone desperately want to try Paradise ATM, just open MonsterRocket.zs file and replace "tango_monster_rocket_fly_sound" with "0"

you are an angel, thank you so much for diagnosing the issue haha. really appreciate it mate!

I just uploaded a fix as RC2b, download link in the OP has been updated. gonna also tag you again @koren for awareness, things should be all good now

Oh, too bad my pc can't load GZDoom 4.0 :-(
I will wait for a vintage version of the port. These are some gorgeous maps!

6 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Oh, too bad my pc can't load GZDoom 4.0 :-(

ah that's too bad :( 3.7.x might still work, but it's been a number of months since I really tested in 3.7.x. dunno if that runs any better on your machine though haha

On 5/2/2019 at 9:04 AM, Tango said:

Difficulty settings are present for most maps, but are not extensively tested

Yeah well, I tried playing the bonus maps on the lowest difficulty, and they're still hard as shit. It may be too much to ask for, but I'd like to request some balancing in that aspect for the next update. I can't really play them as they are right now, but I'd like to.

6 hours ago, Lorenz0 said:

Yeah well, I tried playing the bonus maps on the lowest difficulty, and they're still hard as shit.

hahaha ok it's helpful to hear this, definitely not too much to ask for to balance em better. I'll give them all a deeper balancing pass for the next release candidate! thanks for being a guinea pig ;D

I agree on the balance on the bonus maps. I played the first map and got melted by hitscan and rockets within the first 20 seconds of playing. Seeing the limited ammo and high level enemies surrounding the OPENING ROOM upon death wasn't exactly a good thing to see either.

hi there! i got to playing this today, and i really really love it!

i'm not a true doom murderhead so i can't offer much in-depth criticism, but stuff like instant weapon switch is really great -- and i really love that all the new enemies are very useful for infighting, which really gets you thinking. the scrap gun is also a really nice panic button weapon and immensely satisfying even as a general-use dealie

i also gotta commend you on the batrider/garegga music. big smile on my face when i heard the garegga tune. big thumbs up!

On 6/13/2019 at 7:51 AM, danbo said:

hi there! i got to playing this today, and i really really love it! 

cheers danbo, really appreciate you taking the time to play and comment, it warms my heart to hear you enjoyed it :D also very glad you share my love for garegga music haha, I love that soundtrack too much to not have included at least one track in the project. I'd love to make more use of the garegga ost someday!

I think ALL your wads should have obscure Shmup music Tango. It just fits so well with this. I actually got hyped up for the bigger battle sequences because of the music you added.

1 hour ago, NPC_CO8ALT said:

I think ALL your wads should have obscure Shmup music Tango.

haha I would love to use more shmup music :D glad that you enjoyed it! there's a few other shmup tracks I already have in mind to use at some point in the future, and I intend to find some more on top of that too

as a general status update, I'm still working on balancing the bonus maps. I've added some difficulty settings to map33 and a few others that had none, and I also intend to re-order the bonus maps for the next release so that the higher quality ones come first. stay tuned for an update maybe later in the weekend!

11 hours ago, Tango said:

stay tuned for an update maybe later in the weekend!

Excellent! I finally have some time to try this and those screenies have been calling my name for a while now. Looks just great! Awaiting next update.

RC3 is here!

• switched up the order of the bonus maps, so that now all my favorite ones/higher quality ones are first
• gave the bonus maps a deeper pass on balance UP TO and including map43, for now. map44 onward still need another pass at balancing, but up to 43 should have much better skill balancing than before
• made a tiny tweak to map05 on Casual to make the start a tiny bit less brutal

download link in the OP has been updated accordingly!

3 hours ago, Tango said:

RC3 is here!

Script error, "t-paradise2_rc3.pk3:actors/monsterrocket.zs" line 14:
Unknown identifier 'tango_monster_rocket_fly_sound'
Function without prototype needs register info manually set: TangoRocket.StateFunction.0

Execution could not continue.

1 errors while parsing DECORATE scripts

I get this error when trying to run this with GZDoom 4.1.3 or the pre4.2 Dev Build.

38 minutes ago, Beezle said:

I get this error when trying to run this with GZDoom 4.1.3 or the pre4.2 Dev Build.

oof, sorry about that. I made the same mistake as the last release. just updated the OP with a download link to RC3b, which should have the issue fixed. thanks for pointing it out Beezle :D

I'm losing all my weapons and armor when I exit a level in the normal campaign, is this supposed to happen?

Great job! Now I'm your fan :)

9 hours ago, Doctor Nick said:

I'm losing all my weapons and armor when I exit a level in the normal campaign, is this supposed to happen?

Paradise has a custom menu option to pistol start every map. You probably have it turned on somehow?

On 7/22/2019 at 10:08 PM, Doctor Nick said:

I'm losing all my weapons and armor when I exit a level in the normal campaign, is this supposed to happen?

yeah Not Jabba is correct, there is a pistol start menu option that must be turned on for you.  I meant to make it off by default but I might have messed up there and done the opposite, apologies D: if it's on by default, that'll be fixed in the next beta!

This is a really good map set and a fun, smooth game play mod to go with it. Despite having seen this thread before playing, I totally forgot about the pistol start thing and sucked it up on my way through.

It's hard, though. I started on Tough, got my arse kicked, went down to Casual and proceeded to continue having my arse kicked. Maybe it's because I'm not used to the weapons so much. Great work, in any case. Very fun music and beautiful mapping, too.

cheers @Phobus, thanks so much for playing :D yeah it's definitely a toughie. in the future, in whatever sequel/follow-up mapset I do, I intend to make all the maps in UDMF format so that I can actually have more than 3 distinct difficulty settings. I didn't do that here though because half the maps are doom format, and I wasn't willing to do all the conversions to UDMF.

I really didn't mean for the pistol starts to be enabled by default - apologies for that. I've just uploaded RC3c, which just a hotfix to make pistol starts off by default, with no other changes. link in the OP has been updated

RC4 is finally here! hopefully this is actually the final version, but I'll let it sit for a few days in case anything gamebreaking is discovered, and so that I have a chance to play through all the maps again to double check everything. here's all the major changes:

• implemented the option for auto-reload weapon when empty (off by default); thanks @chowbar for the suggestion!
• implemented the option for automatically playing the midi-alternative tracks in the main episode (off by default); no more need to IDMUS (though you still can if you really want). if this is on, the original tracks still play very briefly before it switches to the midi tracks, but it was either this, or break IDMUS capabilities (which I didn't want to do)
• did some balancing in the remainder of the bonus maps that did not have skill levels present
• visually overhauled map55 for no good reason
• made some minor changes to the main episode maps to make the lower difficulty settings a wee bit easier (but not much)
• wrote an unnecessarily lengthy README file embedded inside the pk3 itself, which will also be present externally alongside the pk3 in the final release
• added a few new sound effects for things like health pickups, intermission tallies, quitting, and the secret message
• added custom automap colors; no more gross brown zdoom defaults!

download link in the OP has been updated! many thanks to everyone that has playtested or otherwise provided feedback so far - you are all gems :D