ZeniMax shutdown Doom Remake 4

1 hour ago, DooM_RO said:

 

It would be great if we could ask some of the Id developers. They seem quite approachable.

Not sure they would know themselves. Legal stuff can get very finicky and detailed, so really should reach out to the legal department for such a inquiry.

They'd probably point you in that direction anyway. Anytime I've had questions that crossed into the legal grey area (not related to this matter but general inquiries for different random things), they've always given the response of "will run it past the legal team". After that, sometimes they can respond to a question, sometimes they can't. 

They take legal stuff very seriously (as they should). Even had to sign a NDA just stepping into the lobby and there was a security guard standing right next to Donna's desk, and they were quick to make sure I didn't go to certain areas that could compromise security or their WIP. There was one specific area where I was instructed to stop at the door... I could look into the big room from that spot, but wasn't allowed to browse the room. When I made a joke about it the response was "Oh, stuff we don't want anyone to see in here. Especially you.". We laughed, and then proceeded back upstairs. I remember specifically them asking permission from the guard on what areas I was permitted in, and the guard giving specific orders on what was off limits. There was also id HR staff and corporate Zenimax HR folks there in the lobby that day for QuakeCon going on at the same time, so they were likely taking extra precaution.

In short, I was escorted the entire time, and a lot of areas they wanted to show me they couldn't.

Talking to developers won't help if the legal department is involved. Those people are a lot higher up the corporate foodchain and those lowly developers normally have no clue what legal is up to.

Regarding potential trademark infringements, if I was ever in a position to make money with the engine, you can bet that I'd rename it up front and alter the distribution in such a way that the game specific data in zd_extra.pk3 gets handled by somebody else. I'd think in such a situation any name containing the word 'Doom' would constitute a problem.

7 hours ago, Linguica said:

If Doom Remake 4 had not used a single shred of copyrighted artwork would it still have been C&D'd? Is the name "Doom Remake 4" itself a reason to threaten to sue?

Actually, I think the name is the prime reason to object here. It simply tries to imply something that isn't true and in this case constitutes a clear trademark infringement because it's not Doom 4, it doesn't run in conjunction with Doom 4 and it's certainly not a remake of Doom 4. On top of that it's a low quality piece of crap made out of stolen assets so it's the kind of stuff that may actually tarnish a brand in the eyes of the legal department.

Consider that mods like D4D never got a C&D, even though they borrowed just as much copyrighted material.

But as things are, lawyers tend to put as much weight into their letters as they possibly can and sometimes overstep their bounds.

https://www.pcgamer.com/bethesdas-legal-department-drops-the-hammer-on-doom-remake-4-mod/

1 hour ago, Dit Dit Lord said:

https://www.pcgamer.com/bethesdas-legal-department-drops-the-hammer-on-doom-remake-4-mod/

Many people are still praising the mod and hate ZeniMax's actions it seems.

 

It only shows that "many people" have no taste... >)

3 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Actually, I think the name is the prime reason to object here. It simply tries to imply something that isn't true and in this case constitutes a clear trademark infringement because it's not Doom 4, it doesn't run in conjunction with Doom 4 and it's certainly not a remake of Doom 4.

I told him to change the title. But he didn't. Of course this is an attempt to get more popularity. But stupidity and greed never lead to anything good.

P.S. No accounting for tastes. )

3 hours ago, Doomenator said:

Of course this is an attempt to get more popularity. But stupidity and greed never lead to anything good.

Considering this is the new Brutal Doom in terms of popularity, well at least many people cried for him.

58 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

It only shows that "many people" have no taste... >)

 

I liked the "hd" textures and 3d models and such when I was a kid because I didn't have a nuanced view on anything I guess? Wouldn't surprise me that the market for stuff like this is mostly kids/teens.

2 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Considering this is the new Brutal Doom in terms of popularity, well at least many people cried for him.

 

Nope. For this project popularity like Brutal Doom, far away as China.

2 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Considering this is the new Brutal Doom in terms of popularity, well at least many people cried for him.

I assure you it is nowhere near Brutal Doom level of popularity.

this is the first time i've heard of this mod, so it clearly isn't as popular as Brutal Doom was.

1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

 

I assure you it is nowhere near Brutal Doom level of popularity.

2 hours ago, Doomenator said:

Nope. For this project popularity like Brutal Doom, far away as China.

From my lame ass research, it is semi-popular among newfangled Doomers. (Doom players that only played Doom with some kind of gameplay mods)
So yeah, my comment should have been like this:

I need to fix my comment but I'm too lazy to do that.

Overpraised mod compilation anyway. 

From what I understand the real reason is not the name nor the mod, is it because it's a stand-alone game using "another engine" which is illegal to use with Doom IP.

Maybe ZeniMax does not know what GZDoom is. After all, they're just publishers.

Is id Software tied undefinetly to this publisher?

I tought it's a good idea to have a good publisher like Bethesda. Getting them to develop games more often than one-game once 10 years. But with the C&D notice and even the new Commander Keen, they'll just end up milking everything from id franchises for a quick buck.

6 minutes ago, xyzz said:

From what I understand the real reason is not the name nor the mod, is it because it's a stand-alone game using "another engine" which is illegal to use with Doom IP.

 

Maybe ZeniMax does not know what GZDoom is. After all, they're just publishers.

 

Is id Software tied undefinetly to this publisher?

As it is often the case with such orders, the intent is to discourage the offender to try to fight it. For that they want to put as many points as possible on the list.

There's also a lot of smoke and mirrors going on to make it hard to find out what they really object to.

The combination of a trademark infringing name with stolen assets and a standalone distribution was a surefire way to provoke some action.

6 minutes ago, xyzz said:

 

I tought it's a good idea to have a good publisher like Bethesda. Getting them to develop games more often than one-game once 10 years. But with the C&D notice and even the new Commander Keen, they'll just end up milking everything from id franchises for a quick buck.

Welcome to big economy! That's how they all end up - milking their existing IP until it is squeezed dry.

On 6/12/2019 at 6:40 PM, Edward850 said:

It appears(?) the project was taken down again because it's a modified EXE (i.e it's not the normal GZDoom) misusing Doom's logos. So not any reason specific to GZDoom.

I would agree. The statement specifically says "your build", as in his version of the engine.

"There are legal issues in the main execution file of the third-party game engine provided with your build (particularly gzdoom.exe) which uses ZeniMax Media Inc names, logos, copyrights and/or trademarks without authorization."

Emphasis mine. Not any other build, not any other engine. Specifically, the version of the engine included here. They have no reason to include such language other than the fact that his specific version is a problem. Read it again, your build which uses ZeniMax Media Inc names, logos, copyrights, and/or trademarks."

If I was a lawyer and GZDoom itself was problematic, I would just drop that whole thing and chase GZDoom iteself. I'd state that the third party game engine flat out uses ZeniMax Media Inc names, logos, etc., and would directly target Graf Zahl for my lawsuit.

However, his version includes icons that directly use Doom official artwork and official logos. GZDoom is not the target. GZDoom includes no official iconography nor logos nor assets, only GNU GPL compliant code. The target is misappropriation of official copyrighted iconography. This has separate implications, but the lawyer is not lying and saying that GZDoom is misusing GNU GPL compliant code. He's saying that this specific person's release is violating IP by including copyrighted iconography, namely the original copyrighted logo and the associated boxart for each game, specifically in the icons directory. Stuff that I'm not sure falls under fair use truth be told.

I just tried this mod and it's complete trash and I hate it. Did it deserve to be taken down? I don't think so, I'm not a fan of this sort of stuff but it doesn't really hurt anyone either. Are they gonna try to fight the GNU GPL in court against GZDoom specifically? I'm gonna wager no. I hate having to defend this bullshittery but I'm not seeing evidence that GZDoom itself is under attack here. Arguments could be made that this is just the gateway into abolishing source ports for all of time but I remain unconvinced given the robust licensing given to the Doom source code (GNU GPL) and the history of lawsuits that follow the same license.

1 hour ago, SGTNAPALM said:

Did it deserve to be taken down?

"Deserve" is kind of irrelevant at this point, it was doing everything any other mod wouldn't and hasn't been allowed to do since the beginning of Doom modding. Not being taken down would suggest some kind of special treatment.

So, does anyone have a link to those textures+PBR Materials? I really want to try out the PBR stuff in LZDoom and fool around with it.

Maybe the models too, but the textures are the thing i want the most of both.

EDIT: Oh boy the wall textures popping out the surfaces looks great, dunno if it's 3D models or just parallax but i want that too.

On 6/9/2019 at 12:03 PM, eviltechno said:

I don't get all the hate.

Me either. I tend to lean towards a much more vanilla look and feel, but there are some rather impressive things going on here, and it all seems to blend together with a lot of consistency.

And, let's be frank: "borrowing" off of other modders is not exactly a surprise in Doom modding.

On 6/9/2019 at 12:21 PM, Nevander said:

Good mod, bad mod... who cares. I'm getting tired of all the corporate bullying going on. Let us make mods in peace dammit. If they care enough to take stuff like this down they need to be making their own official remake.

Every Doom mod should require an honest-to-goodness paid-for vanilla IWAD. That's not asking much. Beyond that single requirement, yeah, modding is in the very spirit of everything the id guys pioneered, from publishing the WAD and map specs, releasing the map build tools, to doing the unheard of: releasing the source.

I can't verify, but if the mod provides a full set of replacement textures, and everything else needed to play 100,000+ user maps, that's somewhat of a problem. But it does seem a bit petty, some 25 years later.

44 minutes ago, -TDRR- said:

Oh boy the wall textures popping out the surfaces looks great, dunno if it's 3D models or just parallax but i want that too.

those are matherials with displacement maps. it is quite similar to bumpmaping fackery.

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

those are matherials with displacement maps. it is quite similar to bumpmaping fackery.

Which could also be called parallax. Yeah i know about it but the only version i have is very incomplete, and it's only Doom 1 textures (And even then it's not even half of them)

I downloaded the latest Experimental 1.19 release before it was taken down and can confirm that the version of the included GZDoom executable actually contains a DOOM logo icon.  There was also the folder that SGTNAPALM mentioned that contained additional icons of the DOOM trademarks and copyrighted cover art.

3 hours ago, SGTNAPALM said:

Did it deserve to be taken down? I don't think so, I'm not a fan of this sort of stuff but it doesn't really hurt anyone either.

So in the end it's really just the name. Yes, the mod has been doing what many other mods did in the past and which didn't attract the wrath of the lawyers. The name, on the other hand, is a clear trademark violation of the most blatant kind.

If you think about it, it makes sense. Zenimax is about to release a new Doom game and here's some random project calling itself "Doom 4 Remake". Hands up who doesn't see a connection here.

1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

So in the end it's really just the name. Yes, the mod has been doing what many other mods did in the past and which didn't attract the wrath of the lawyers. The name, on the other hand, is a clear trademark violation of the most blatant kind.

 

If you think about it, it makes sense. Zenimax is about to release a new Doom game and here's some random project calling itself "Doom 4 Remake". Hands up who doesn't see a connection here.

I'm absolutely positive it was the IWADs and its inappropriate use of Freedoom, while the name was just a beacon. Unless you are talking about another incident?

No, I don't. But surely, that name and being standalone was a deadly combination.

ZeniMax have been distributing strikes for every project that contains "Remake" in their names since 2014, mostly because after Unreal Engine 4 went public that year, since then there was some attempts at doing Doom Remakes, which probably ZeniMax is also thinking about this one, since Vasyan layered the mod in all of the recent features GZDoom have, they probably think this is another one of those "Remakes".

On 6/9/2019 at 12:25 PM, Gez said:

The one rule id made about distributing modified IWAD content (like the upscaled sprites) was that it's allowed as long as it's for the IWAD the content is taken from.

When did id make this rule? Could you reference it?
As far as I know id has never explicitly allowed the distribution of modifications of their assets, regardless of what IWAD it's used with.

Even if they had written down such rule, I would be very surprised if being "for the IWAD" was the only limitation.

I'll be honest, I was deeply concerned when I first heard about this that it would set a precedent for them to go after other mods and maybe even source ports that have the Doom name in them, since the letter specifies that it's their trademark they don't like being used. If they're going after it because it misappropriates logos and other such things of the official Doom, then that's much more reasonable.

A lot of mods like Beautiful Doom, have the word Doom in their title so this is a terrible precedence for the modding community.  The Doom Remake Project is a collection of mods, and really looks good and very modern.  I think companies get worried like when Fox, foxed the ALIEN tc for Quake, when they feel like the popularity of a mod*might* threaten their profits.   It's almost never the case though.  Brutal Doom, Smooth Doom, Hard Doom, Beautiful Doom etc.  just give gamers more reasons to buy the old game.

2 hours ago, Wraith September said:

 It's almost never the case though.  Brutal Doom, Smooth Doom, Hard Doom, Beautiful Doom etc.  just give gamers more reasons to buy the old game.

That my very well be the issue, even if it's not implied upfront. Sometimes I wonder if they want to divert attention from the classics so more focus go towards the new titles.