What is your most hated demon in Doom?

8 hours ago, R1ck said:

why people hate [doom/2] monsters so much?

Because mappers have become exceedingly efficient at using them.

....And of course there's the never ending complaints along the lines of...

-"I can't deal with X, therefore it is an unfair monster" (often heard when people talk about revs or viles, sometimes PEs) or

-"this mapper doesn't want people to have fun" (often heard when mappers don't place things like back in the 90s when nobody had a clue how to play)

Not saying there aren't actual reasons to complain, like the ever so boring corridor baron (often used as door with health in older maps in particular)

The only monsters that really piss me off are hidden monsters. This is especially common with Arch-Viles, Chaingunners, and Revenants. Basically, the enemies that can do a shitload of damage and are either line of sight, hit scan, or have seeking attacks, and are stuck in cages or behind false textures halfway across the map.

All the monsters in Doom 1/2 can be used well. But when someone decides to be a dick, they can really be a dick by hiding the viles, chaingunners, and revenants. It's not fun, just irritating.

"I think I'll go outside now. Oh, I'm on fire. And now I'm getting shot. And there's a few rockets. Well... this is fun."

I came from playing Doom 64 (no arch viles), so when playing Doom 2 maps, I hated arch viles with a passion. But then I figured out strategies to deal with them and they became fun. Next was the Revenants, but those are fun for me now too. I guess now the most tricky monster for me is the pain elemental (which was a Doom 64 monster as well), but I already liked the pain elemental. I can understand that sometimes the default health for Lost Souls is a bit high for such a small hit box, so I know some mappers who nerf their health a bit.

The reason most  people hate lost souls is mainly because they suck.

I like Lost Souls. They are like a Pinky that can actually connect his attack.

12 minutes ago, Maximum Matt said:

The reason most people hate lost souls is mainly because they suck.

WOW WHAT AN EXPLANATION

Of course everybody hates... and kills Doom monsters.

Without joking: I like all of them very much.

I don't think that any of the monsters inherently suck, and the ones that were introduced in Doom 2 were a sorely needed addition to the roster. Every monster has its own exploitable weaknesses, and you intuitively learn them the more you play. But like Nine Inch Heels said, mappers have become increasingly good at using monsters in a very efficient way, which is a trait that wasn't really present in UDoom/Doom 2, so if a player only ever played those two IWADs they might feel very uncomfortable while dealing with certain monsters like Revenants and PEs in more modern PWADs.

Do the wolves hate the sheep they eat? But tups can make their life a bit harder.

My problem with lost souls is that they have too much HP for a swarm type enemy. Imagine if, say, the Wasps from Marathon had as much HP as the player...

If you hate lost souls you should use the rocket launcher more. Nothing more satisfying than firing into a cluster and watching 4-5 of them get jettisoned into oblivion. The added risk of face rocketing one makes it even more enjoyable. The rocket launcher is always my weapon of choice for fighting pain elementals if I can get away with it.

Most of what makes a monster "suck" is the environment they are in or the weapons you are given to fight them. Shotgunning the aforementioned souls one at a time is not fun at all.

I think lost souls are underused and one of the most underrated enemies in doom 2 hard maps. A lot of people tend to use pain elemental instead , it's a shame. Also , the lost soul don't have to be killed in an uv-max , so Lost soul can be used to distract the player from fighting more important enemies  , reduce the possibilities of movement or forcing the player to waste ammo.

I never heard people complaining of Doom 2 monsters in general (except the AV , the revenant or the pain elemental)

I've never really heard this hate. The reason Doom 2 is the default for PWADS is because of the weapon and monster variety. Going back to Doom 1 feels extremely limited in terms of enemies. 

I mean Pain Elementals are frustrating and Archviles put the fear of god into me, but they're incredibly useful encounter design tools, they force players to behave in massively different ways.

Well, I wouldn't slay them if I didn't hate them. 

I don't hate any monsters, not really.  I do think some of them shouldn't have been included--SS troopers for example; they would have been better as a stationary UAC turrets with massive amounts of hit points and the same rate of fire.

Pain elemental really lives up to the name, but otherwise all other doom 2 monsters are great, good variety etc.

I sometimes think that lost souls have a bit too much health, but that's not really a complaint.

And fighting lost souls and PE's with a missile launcher is great fun, very risky and probably not the sort of thing to do on an Ironman but normal playing? Hell yeah!! 

1 hour ago, Rosh Fragger said:

Well, I wouldn't slay them if I didn't hate them. 

So, there are players who like them given there is UV Pacifist achievement.

They're tougher. One screeches, the other one resurrects things. We all cool with Mancubus though. Oh and one spawns Lost Souls like he was destine to be the boss in Tower of Babel. What's not to love?

As someone who got to play Doom at a young age when it first released and had my innocent little mind blown, all the Doom monsters hold a special place in my heart from childhood... it's hard to not love and adore each of them...

BUT... having said that...

NOTHING shits me more than walking into an arena full of Revenants... seriously, trying to outrun 20 homing missiles stuck up your arse get's tiring very quickly... a couple on their own are okay but Revenants get spammed in some wads to the point of it no longer being enjoyable. "Hell Revealed" I & II (AMAZING WADS!! don't get me wrong!!) are notorious for this at times, as is Final Doom: Plutonia. Lost Souls annoy me at times too because they're really nothing more than ammo sponges...

My favourite monsters are the Arch-Vile (super fucking badarse) and our dearly beloved Cacodemon... because... well, look at him!! lol <3

I don't hate any monsters in the game... but the monsters in doom/doom 2 that annoy me the most are shotgunguys and heavy weapons dudes, they may be weak and die in a single shot with most weapons but they get really annoying when there's a bunch all spread out across a room mostly because their hitscan attacks make them hard to avoid, and they chip away at my health more than any other monsters most often. Im pretty sure most my deaths in plutonia UV were from the result of those damn chaingunners. 

Lost souls and Pain Elementals can be pretty annoying too.

I hate Lost Souls. There is absolutely no satisfaction to killing them, and they are super annoying to deal with. Golden Souls 2's "Boo" Lost Souls are probably the pinnacle of that annoyance (sorry Batandy lol).

However, I do like Doom 64's Lost Souls a lot. They're aggressive sure, but having less health makes up for it.

12 hours ago, Solmyr said:

How can anyone hate Lost Souls?

Ammo sponges. Nuff said.

9 hours ago, Jello said:

Basically, the enemies that can do a shitload of damage and are either line of sight, hit scan, or have seeking attacks, and are stuck in cages or behind false textures halfway across the map.

 

You'd hate my maps... hahaha... I dig the ol' "Arch-Vile behind the false wall trick" ;)

I have a penchant for Lost Soul spitting walls too :p

I hate Arch-Vile's with a burning passion. Having to kill one is hard enough, but having to kill multiple of them while they're resurrecting other demons I've already killed REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

8 minutes ago, DoomSpud said:

 

Ammo sponges. Nuff said.

You just described the Baron of Hell.

5 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

You just described the Baron of Hell.

Yeah, in vanilla Doom perhaps, to a degree... but Brutal Doom's Baron of Hell with it's triple fireball in a tight corrider is a death sentence.

6 hours ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

If you hate lost souls you should use the rocket launcher more. Nothing more satisfying than firing into a cluster and watching 4-5 of them get jettisoned into oblivion. The added risk of face rocketing one makes it even more enjoyable. The rocket launcher is always my weapon of choice for fighting pain elementals if I can get away with it.

 

 

This.  I actually prefer using the rl over the pg against souls.  More economical and thrilling too. Just keep circling to avoid one flying directly at you. However I prefer mods where they die to a single shotgun shell.

TBQH, none of the "normal" original Doom monsters was that dangerous or complex in terms of combat compared to what came in Doom 2. There wasn't a zombie capable of draining your life in mere seconds just like a Spider Mastermind (chaingunner), or a tough monster with almost as much life as a Cacodemon whose missiles also kept homing-in on you (Revenant), or ammo sponges/spammers like the arachnotron/mancs. And let's not even mention Pain Elementals or Archviles.

The original Doom's bestiary seems quite tame and plain in comparison, to the point of being boring. Actually, it had quite a lot of niche gaps and unfulfilled roles.

10 hours ago, Loud Silence said:

Of course everybody hates... and kills Doom monsters.

...Except for those pacifist run weirdos