Classic Doom level inconsistencies

Hey man go with the flow

22 hours ago, ChicagoTrash said:

Fair enough. I just like thinking about this stuff. 

Nothing wrong with that. I think id was originally headed down a much more consistent path with Tom Hall's Doom Bible.

I think a lot of the things you describe could have actually been cleaned-up, and a more coherent product released. But, would that have actually made Doom any better? I don't think it would have improved things much. In fact, being able to build totally abstract, even partially non-sensical maps may have worked in id's favor somewhat.

I think abandoning the script afforded some freedom and "artistic license". It's a lot of work to coordinate all of the various resources, especially when they are being made while the maps are being made!

Yeah, it's a bit goofy when water burns you, or when some nukage burns and some does not. But, we figure that out quickly enough. It adds just a bit of mystery.

When you've played some maps where they've tried to make a realistic building, with lots of symmetry and pedantically-made identical rooms, you realize that the more surreal structured maps are far more fun.

2 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

When you've played some maps where they've tried to make a realistic building, with lots of symmetry and pedantically-made identical rooms, you realize that the more surreal structured maps are far more fun.

Each map is different. If nothing else, I'd claim that id's lack of coherence opened up the world of Doom to allow anything to fit well. Anything works in Doom, because there are no implied restrictions on what can be done. This may have been accidental, but it really worked out well.

13 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

When you've played some maps where they've tried to make a realistic building, with lots of symmetry and pedantically-made identical rooms, you realize that the more surreal structured maps are far more fun.

I'm not asking to change level design. Dooms level design is iconic. Imagine if the room with the staircase to your first armor pickup wasn't in E1M1. I'm mostly just talking about small stuff. 

I've always been struck by the game's wildly inconsistent approach to realism. As pointed out on numerous occasions E1 is set on Phobos, and yet the scenery appears to be Vietnam, but there's this airlock on E1M5:

At least I think it's an airlock. It has double doors and an environment suit. And a chainsaw. It must be used by workers in the base who need to go outside to cut down trees in a vacuum except that in the little courtyard outside there are no trees, not even stumps. The level is an industrial techbase but it's lit with candelabras, but then again it's being taken over by the forces of hell so perhaps it is being perverted into something unnatural.

On a picky level the tech columns in the first room of E1M1 are braced at the top and bottom, which feels right, but most of the time they're just standing on the floor and don't reach the ceiling, which looks wrong. They look like double-ended pipes, but they're generally treated as floor ornaments.

While I'm at it, the game teaches you early on in E1M1 and E1M3 that there will be timed puzzles whereby you cross a line and then run to a door that has opened suddenly - but outside those two levels and throughout most of Doom II that puzzle type rarely appears again.

7 hours ago, Ashley_Pomeroy said:

At least I think it's an airlock.

Well, if you are hoping for some kind of realism yes, it is an airlock. 

The reality is that the radsuit is here in order to avoid the damage of the nukage pool in the same room, and the other secret is here to provide a way to reach the outside area (with a chainsaw because yes, every secret has to have a chainsaw in it).

My take is definitely some kind of big dome covering the whole crater where the facilities are. That or some kind of processed atmosphere like in Aliens or Total Recall

If you're on Phobos, wouldn't you be able to see Mars in the sky? Or just space, if the base was on the 'dark side'?

Joining in the party here, why does Knee Deep In The Dead actually take place in China and not Phobos? Could it be a case where the UAC base is simply named Phobos?

1 hour ago, Salahmander2 said:

Joining in the party here, why does Knee Deep In The Dead actually take place in China and not Phobos? Could it be a case where the UAC base is simply named Phobos?

According to some textures the base name seems to be Tei Tenga. Sounds asian-ish, maybe you are right and the base was made by a chinese branch of UAC.

On 7/15/2019 at 8:31 PM, Simomarchi said:

To be honest it is also quite strange that a giant brown bull with a cyber leg is shooting volleys of rockets to me, but ok.

At least it kinda fits with the rest of the freaks you previously encounter, unlike that gigantic mutant brain monster mounted on a four legged mechanical device wich has a dick chaingun that shoots shotgun shells, and for some reason it's considered a spider.

Phobos and Deimos have very low gravity and don't have an atmosphere and water cannot exist in the liquid form on their surface due to the vacuum of space. While their skies in Doom have clouds, water, blood, slime etc.

I want to knock points off Doom for having an inconsistent number of pellets in a shell, how does 7 pellets per shell suddenly become 10 per shell in a Super Shotgun?!

It makes no sense!

I assumed it was because they wanted paid patches.

This one nitpick I have that won't get out of my head.

-wearing a suit protection won't protect you from walking over lava-

In TNT evilution the demons took over the Io base using a hellish space ship, it appears in the title screen, however there are no levels that takes place there. 

If the pistol uses rifle magazines, shouldn't it be a lot stronger? All the zombiemen are carrying rifles, remember.

Shitty rifles with the same damage as the pistol and much lower fire rate.

And shotgun cartridges that somehow magically turn to shit and shoot only 3 pellets when in the sergeants' hands.

2 hours ago, Pegg said:

Shitty rifles with the same damage as the pistol and much lower fire rate.

And yet, nobody liked it when they finally fixed that (with chaingunners).

1 hour ago, Maes said:

And shotgun cartridges that somehow magically turn to shit and shoot only 3 pellets when in the sergeants' hands.

And somehow magically fire three additional pellets, each barrel, when fired from the Super Shotgun.

On 7/15/2019 at 12:03 PM, HAK3180 said:

 

This happens in iwad levels!? Which one(s)?

This also happens in map 06 of plutonia. The fountain with the berserk in the room full of demons

@Mortrixs19, huh, that one is not even an "oh, yeah!" moment for me. I may never have realized that.

It's almost like the designers made the maps without any kind of design plan. 

On 7/22/2019 at 1:04 PM, Ashley_Pomeroy said:

"approach to realism"

un huh

Well, I run faster at 45* angles in real life, so this always increased my immersion.

On 7/15/2019 at 12:11 AM, ChicagoTrash said:

I noticed how inconsistent some of the Doom levels are. Sometimes nukage makes a green glow on walls and sometimes not. Sometimes lava and blood does the same thing. In TNT, the game takes place on Io(moon of Jupiter) and there is grass on the ground. How? Post any similar things here. I guess you could also try to explain a few of these things. Maybe the grass on Io is because of a biodome?

https://youtu.be/lNJ6dFwh8a4?t=31

33 minutes ago, Master O said:

 

https://youtu.be/lNJ6dFwh8a4?t=31

 

I agree completely.