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SpammerMike

Damage system

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I don't know if this was discussed before, but if it was then please post hell this, mods. It's goes without saying that Doom 3's grafx are a new benchmark and very realistic -- are all things in this game going to be ultra-real? Will body armor, in all it's levels of protection, reduce damage like in all the other Dooms or will it simply act more like, say a kevlar vest and stop certain attacks with more ease than others? If so, perhaps there should be different armors available that you can equip given a certain situation in a battle. (of course it'd wear out, but you could have lighter armor or heavier armor for different situations...bullet-resistance kevlar for situations with a lot of gun-toting possessed humans and maybe heavier armor for demon encounters and the like...or if you think you'll be fighting a cyberdemon soon...heh)
I guess what else I'm asking about is the health system as well. Will it be possible for you to take about as many hits as you could in the other Dooms (though I have been killed in one scratch from a baron on UV before -- I tested it thoroughly :) or will you take fewer hits and endure the damage and show it by limping, leaving a blood trail or something. If this were put in, it'd sure change the already good Doom system of damage, etc but whether the developing team at id uses this or not remains to be seen.

BTW: I suppose those who might've played the leaked alpha (I obviously haven't) would have a better idea of how to answer this than most people...though we don't know if they'll do some major tweaking, yet, before the release anyway.

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It goes without saying that nobody knows how Doom 3 will operate in such a way. However, I think it goes without saying that most Doomers would favor the idea of armor in Doom 3 operating similar to Doom's.

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AndrewB said:

It goes without saying that nobody knows how Doom 3 will operate in such a way. However, I think it goes without saying that most Doomers would favor the idea of armor in Doom 3 operating similar to Doom's.

Actually no. I prefer some armour that works a little differently from the original.
Let's just say that armour should be a little less effective against certain attacks and a little more effective against certain other attacks.
It'd make sense to assume that the armour that the marines wear are designed to offer protection against both sharp objects and gunfire, so it'd make sense again to have the armour be very effective against typic human weapons that fire projectiles like bullets, shotgun pellets etc, whereas it'll be a little less effective against plasma and the like.

Now when I say effective I think of having the armour suck up most of the damage and leave you with very little damage to health. Say, if a shotgun guy shoots at you, you'll lose a great deal of armour (25 armour points or something) whereas you'll only lose about 5 health points or less.

When less effective, it only slightly reduces the damage done to you and *maybe* the damage done to the armour itself is not as high, depending on which sort of attack you suffer from.

That's the way I'd like to see it. We've seen the way it worked in the old Doom a lot, so I'd just like to see armour work a bit differently.

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Remember that you have a separate stamina meter in Doom 3. A bad hit could be absorbed by the armor so that your health is affected very little, while your stamina could drop instead.

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I didn't know about the stamina. But if they choose to make a point-on-body damage system, it could be possible that you pick up different armor pieces, or it could be a whole suit when you get it, like thigh pads, helmet and so on. And yeah, DSM, different armor-types that protect against certain attacks better...ballist vests, armor that protects against blows (don't know a good name for it) and I didn't even think about plasma protection armor. Maybe they should try having energy armor like in Q2? Though I hated that it drained my cells...they should just have a battery pick-up for that instead. Lastly, would it be cool or stupid to be able to find a different form of armor in the hell levels -- like an all-purpose demon armor or something? Just an idea, though even I think it'd be kinda lame.

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SaviourMike said:

Lastly, would it be cool or stupid to be able to find a different form of armor in the hell levels -- like an all-purpose demon armor or something? Just an idea, though even I think it'd be kinda lame.

Sorry, but I'd find that pretty lame. I prefer to view the demons as a chaotic force of untamed animals - I don't like to think of them as a coordinated force that develops armour of their own. I know that the Doom universe has cyborgs and cybernetically enhanced weapons, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a "conscious decision" of the demons.

I like the idea of blood thirsty animals that just want to rip, tear and kill - and then there is some powerful intelligence (Spider Masterminds) controlling them and figuring out ways to augment its minions.

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To me the demons in doom were mindless killers. Kill and kill some more. Is all they know how to do. And if we had demon armor that would mean we knew they were comeing and that would f'up the story.

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Demons Hand said:

To me the demons in doom were mindless killers. Kill and kill some more. Is all they know how to do. And if we had demon armor that would mean we knew they were comeing and that would f'up the story.

I second that.

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Ct_red_pants said:

Alien armor didn't make system shock 2 lame. (say otherwise, and die)

System shock is also something completely different.

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Ct_red_pants said:

Alien armor didn't make system shock 2 lame. (say otherwise, and die)


Yes, well I can't imagine the hellspawn with armor.

dsm ---> IRC :)

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Ct_red_pants said:

It could work. If they got the art side of things right...


no. How would a pinkydemon put armor on?

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Shaviro said:

no. How would a pinkydemon put armor on?


Well, not necessarily all the demons would wear armour. Remember Unreal? Higher classes of The Skaarj and the Brutes wore armour... the other monsters didn't. So I guess the Imps, barons etc. could wear armour. But then, The Unreal monsters were actual alien races rather than hellspawn... I don't think hellspawn should wear armour.

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AirRaid said:

Well, not necessarily all the demons would wear armour. Remember Unreal? Higher classes of The Skaarj and the Brutes wore armour... the other monsters didn't. So I guess the Imps, barons etc. could wear armour. But then, The Unreal monsters were actual alien races rather than hellspawn... I don't think hellspawn should wear armour.

/Me pukes
Demons wearing armour? Worst fucking idea ever! Yes, the Unreal monsters are aliens, therefore it works with them, the Doom monsters are Hellspawned demons, most of them are just immensely powerful monsters that someone has augmented with cybernetics, thus giving them armour is totally absurd. Why? Because demons don't NEED armour, their skin is their armour dammit.

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AirRaid said:

Well, not necessarily all the demons would wear armour. Remember Unreal? Higher classes of The Skaarj and the Brutes wore armour... the other monsters didn't. So I guess the Imps, barons etc. could wear armour. But then, The Unreal monsters were actual alien races rather than hellspawn... I don't think hellspawn should wear armour.


Look. The monsters are not civilized. They fight eachother. They don't wear pants. Why would they wear armor? They don't even know what it is!

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dsm said:

/Me pukes
Demons wearing armour? Worst fucking idea ever! Yes, the Unreal monsters are aliens, therefore it works with them, the Doom monsters are Hellspawned demons, most of them are just immensely powerful monsters that someone has augmented with cybernetics, thus giving them armour is totally absurd. Why? Because demons don't NEED armour, their skin is their armour dammit.


If the Demons are real Hellspawned Demons then why do they have Rocket Launchers, Plasma Guns and Chainguns then?

[mod]Remember to use the quote tags[/mod]

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Ultimate Demon said:

If the Demons are real Hellspawned Demons then why do they have Rocket Launchers, Plasma Guns and Chainguns then?

[mod]Remember to use the quote tags[/mod]

Because they are controlled by a superior entity that would use any means to make its minions more powerful, thus it would fit the animals under its controls with new means of delivering destruction.

Look. The monsters are not civilized. They fight eachother. They don't wear pants. Why would they wear armor? They don't even know what it is!

Exactly!

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Shaviro said:

Look. The monsters are not civilized. They fight eachother. They don't wear pants. Why would they wear armor? They don't even know what it is!


Eh? I seem to have been misinterpreted... I don't want to see demons wearing armour in Doom 3, I was just pointing out to Shav that if they did, they wouldn't ALL wear it.

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Ultimate Demon said:

If the Demons are real Hellspawned Demons then why do they have Rocket Launchers, Plasma Guns and Chainguns then?

[mod]Remember to use the quote tags[/mod]

Everything you just pointed out is an example of something offensive, meaning that it was designed to injure others. The hellspawn have never show signs if being defensive. IMO they arent supposed to win any battles, theyre supposed to kill, and kill, and kill regardless of whether or not they dies in the process. I doubt that whatever power it is that controls them cares whether or not its minions survive. Why waste time creating defensive equipment when you can make creatures that will, instead, cause more damage?

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From what I saw in the alpha (hopefully I can say this without getting banned), the damage was pretty realistic with the exception of the zombies. The only zombies I encountered were unarmed, but somehow they manage to kill you with 5 or 6 hits simply by swinging blindly at you. I can't imagine reworked humans being strong enough to kill a fully armored marine simply by slapping him. I hope they change that.

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Megalyth said:

From what I saw in the alpha (hopefully I can say this without getting banned), the damage was pretty realistic with the exception of the zombies. The only zombies I encountered were unarmed, but somehow they manage to kill you with 5 or 6 hits simply by swinging blindly at you. I can't imagine reworked humans being strong enough to kill a fully armored marine simply by slapping him. I hope they change that.

I dunno how much damage they do exactly as I haven't tried the Alpha (and stubbornly refuse to d/l it), but knowing that they're undead creatures, they gotta possess some sort of superhuman strenght that make them lethal. Also for the sake of balance, the zombies have to be pretty dangerous up close to make up for their lack of ranged attacks and slow movement.

At any rate, this thing is an Alpha and it is quite likely that they'll change it - I remember playing the Q2 demo before it was out and I found that the shotgun sucked horribly (it was almost as weak as the blaster), what a happy surprise that was when I bought the final game and saw that the sb shotgun was a lot more powerful than in the demo. So my guess is that they'll change it.

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Fredrik said:

Dying from six right-on hits is realistic, regardless of whether or not you're wearing any armor.

yeah, if the attacker is strong enough.

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If a kevlar vest can stop bullets, I don't think even the strongest zombie could so much as knock the wind out of you with a dead on body blow, and the marine wears a helmet also. Keep in mind that Doom takes place in the far future, and the armor would be far stronger and more advanced if indeed realism is one of the goals of the game.

Also, these zombies were not hauling off and swinging with full strength, closed-fisted punches, they were just swinging open hands around in the air. If the player got mobbed by 3 or 4 zombies all attacking full strength, then maybe it would do some damage.

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I guess it all depends on one's own personal views of zombie characteristics. My own opinion is that zombies are weak and nearly blind. I'm sure it won't retract from the gameplay at all though, because one thing is certain: killing zombies is great fun whether they're strong or not. :)

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Couldn't the demons wear armor if it was natural? Yes, they have a lemming-like disregard for life when it comes to destroying, but what if the armor was of a natural nature. Like bone breast plate-thing that is formed from their ribs or something. Things of that nature?

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Vulg@r said:

Couldn't the demons wear armor if it was natural? Yes, they have a lemming-like disregard for life when it comes to destroying, but what if the armor was of a natural nature. Like bone breast plate-thing that is formed from their ribs or something. Things of that nature?

Being able to pick that up would be too fucking cheesy, but yes, "natural" armour such as rock hard skin, a tough bone structure and/or an exoskeleton would be fair enough.
But being able to pick it up would be just as stupid as organic alien weapons, simply because these items are built/spawned/created for the aliens/demons (in this case demons) and NOT for humans.

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