Any Dsflame Ideas? [split]

Dear friends!

Why don't you use my "Total Sound Modification for FreeDoom" In addition to the two sounds you need, there is also a completely new sound package for Flame Bringer, hich, IMHO, is much more suitable for the image of a thin red skeleton. Creative Commons 0 License!

4 hours ago, Bratish said:

Dear friends! Why don't you use my "Total Sound Modification for FreeDoom" In addition to the two sounds you need, there is also a completely new sound package for Flame Bringer, hich, IMHO, is much more suitable for the image of a thin red skeleton. Creative Commons 0 License!

I tried.

Two problems:

- For some reason the sounds get a lot of static when downsampling to 11kHz. They're fine at 22kHz, but I'm not sure if that's an option for Freedoom.

- The thin red skeleton has been replaced with a walking eye ball.

1 hour ago, luckypunk said:

I'm not sure if that's an option for Freedoom.

It's an option for vanilla Doom and Doom II made in 1993 and 1994 by id Software.

3 minutes ago, Gez said:

It's an option for vanilla Doom and Doom II made in 1993 and 1994 by id Software.

Thank, you. I'm aware that there are some 22k samples in Doom. The question is: is it an option for Freedoom to have all samples at 22k?

4 hours ago, luckypunk said:

- The thin red skeleton has been replaced with a walking eye ball.

 

When is that? The latest release, available for download, still has a red skeleton!

54 minutes ago, Bratish said:

 

When is that? The latest release, available for download, still has a red skeleton!

The daily builds had it replaced for quite a while now.

56 minutes ago, Bratish said:

 

When is that? The latest release, available for download, still has a red skeleton!

Maybe it's in the automated builds

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 5:58 AM, luckypunk said:

- The thin red skeleton has been replaced with a walking eye ball.

 

If you can even call it a walking eyeball when it does not explode into gore or something.

Dear friends!

Thank you for information - I could not have imagined that FreeDoom-community finally replaced Flame Bringer sprites. Keeping this news in mind, I updated my "Total Total Modification for FreeDoom", where, among other things, sounds for hero of this topic (including sounds of fire attack) have been replaced. Please download my mod again.

Thruly yours Bratish, The Soundman.

Welp. He dun goofed though :P

From my experience a lot of noise comes about from going between 16 bit to 8 bit. 8 bit is awfully coarse-grained, an unfortunate issue from systems at the time. The best way to avoid that, in my experience, is to get rid of any low amplitudes. Since these are quiet and can oscillate between coarse grained values, it introduces higher frequency noise which becomes audible in quiet sections. One way I avoid this is to simply delete any long fade outs/ins (which coincidentally helped devs save space back in the day). But that doesn't help for low amplitudes in the middle of sounds. The way I would handle those is to use a compressor or a dynamics processor to amplify middle quiet amplitudes.

If it is truly a frequency issue though, that's something I haven't had to deal with yet.

2 hours ago, Immorpher said:

From my experience a lot of noise comes about from going between 16 bit to 8 bit.

Thanks for the input. If it were an 8bit issue wouldn't that have happened at 8bit/22kHz, too?

1 hour ago, luckypunk said:

Thanks for the input. If it were an 8bit issue wouldn't that have happened at 8bit/22kHz, too?

 

Ya, you're probably right! I should mess around with the samples and see what I get. At 22 kHz sample rate, 8bit should send noise up to 11 kHz which is still at human hearing. So if it was truly an 8 bit issue, it would be at 22 kHz too.

I attached some of my experiments in lowering the quality of the DSFLAME sound by @Bratish to 11 kHz, 8 bit. The obvious effect is losing crispness because that format can only produce sounds up to 5.5 kHz. But on that particular sound the static wasn't too bad except a slight bit on the fade out. I modified it (DSFLAME11kHzMod) with a dynamics processor and I was able to reduce the fade out static. Without the higher frequency components though it sounds more like a rush of wind, which may be fitting for the attack. If there is a particular problem sound I can look at that too.

dsflame.zip

25 minutes ago, Immorpher said:

I attached some of my experiments in lowering the quality of the DSFLAME sound by @Bratish to 11 kHz, 8 bit. The obvious effect is losing crispness because that format can only produce sounds up to 5.5 kHz. But on that particular sound the static wasn't too bad except a slight bit on the fade out. I modified it (DSFLAME11kHzMod) with a dynamics processor and I was able to reduce the fade out static. Without the higher frequency components though it sounds more like a rush of wind, which may be fitting for the attack. If there is a particular problem sound I can look at that too.

dsflame.zip

Thank you very much for converting sound from my mod! By the way, could you also convert rest of “Total Sound Modification for Freedoom” in same way, so that the new Freedoom release finally has normal sounds instead of old "crap”?

8 hours ago, Bratish said:

 

Thank you very much for converting sound from my mod! By the way, could you also convert rest of “Total Sound Modification for Freedoom” in same way, so that the new Freedoom release finally has normal sounds instead of old "crap”?

I am not sure how Freedoom is organised, but if they would like that (and if they like the sounds), I can do that.

6 hours ago, Immorpher said:

I am not sure how Freedoom is organised, but if they would like that (and if they like the sounds), I can do that.

One of our fearless leaders has just contacted Bratish with some important questions. If all goes well that would mean they would like that. Maybe we can also get an opinion on the acceptable sample frequencies, @fraggle? Would all 22kHz samples be acceptable, or do we need to follow Doom's lead with that?

20 hours ago, Immorpher said:

From my experience a lot of noise comes about from going between 16 bit to 8 bit. 8 bit is awfully coarse-grained, an unfortunate issue from systems at the time. The best way to avoid that, in my experience, is to get rid of any low amplitudes. Since these are quiet and can oscillate between coarse grained values, it introduces higher frequency noise which becomes audible in quiet sections. One way I avoid this is to simply delete any long fade outs/ins (which coincidentally helped devs save space back in the day). But that doesn't help for low amplitudes in the middle of sounds. The way I would handle those is to use a compressor or a dynamics processor to amplify middle quiet amplitudes.

If their is only one thing I actually do like out of the 8-bit sounds is the teleport sound that I guess you replaced? It kind of fits more with being a teleport sound even to what Doom sounds like, but also more of a way to say it is less noisy than what it is replaced by now. Though I do not mind it, just the old one sounds more like what the teleport sound should look like to the sprite itself.

47 minutes ago, luckypunk said:

One of our fearless leaders has just contacted Bratish with some important questions. If all goes well that would mean they would like that. Maybe we can also get an opinion on the acceptable sample frequencies, @fraggle? Would all 22kHz samples be acceptable, or do we need to follow Doom's lead with that?

 

22khz is fine. Even Vanilla Doom supports it, and several of the Doom II sound effects (super shotgun sounds) are 22khz.

Great! Thanks for the info.

@Immorpher, I guess I could do somewhat decent 22kHz conversions myself, but you really seem to know what you're doing. So if you're still up for it and Bratish has some satisfying answers about his sources, I'd really appreciate it, if you'd do the conversions.

I have been trying to find what were the audio limits of the original engine and this is the best I could find from https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sound and http://web.archive.org/web/20150421212726/http://aiforge.net/test/wadview/dmspec16.txt

Quote

Sound lumps in the WAD file are stored in raw (PCM) format for 8-bit, monaural, typically at a sampling rate of 11025 Hz, although some sounds use 22050 Hz. Each sample is one byte (8 bits), and in vanilla Doom, the maximum number of samples was 65535. At a sampling rate of 11025 Hz, this meant the longest sound could be about six seconds.

The original document it refers to seems to suggest that the sampling rate was limited to 11025 Hz but as @fraggle mentioned it known that the original release of doom did have couple 22050 Hz sounds. So we can definitely have sounds at 22050 Hz. It also seems to suggest that all sounds are 8bit, and I don't know of any examples back then which went beyond 8 bit, so we're probably stuck at 8 bit. For sampling rate, it seems like it is limited to the number of samples being 65535. So a 44100 Hz sound could not exceed 1.5s, 22050 kHz can't exceed 3s, and 11025 can't exceed 6 seconds. But I don't know of any games using the engine that went up to 44100 Hz or even 32000 Hz which was often used as a compromise.

So it looks like if we want to retain classic compatibility, 8 bit, 22050 kHz is the safest bet, unless the sound exceeds 3s then 11050 Hz. Once we get some better idea if the sounds legal status are in good creative commons form, I can convert them into the appropriate format :) Also I have experience upscaling low quality sounds and reconstructing missing frequencies too.

Split out and locked. Bratish withdrew permission to  use his sound effects for some reason.