Intellectual debts

4 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

he saw the overview of what SoM was doing, and utilized that knowledge (of how he was doing it, etc.)

See my prior post. Where does SoM explain how portals in EE were done, "how he was doing it, etc."? You keep asking me to prove code theft so now I'm asking you to prove SoM explained how portals work.

Yeah so that's not "clean room" so can we avoid confusing the situation any further and stop using It?

4 minutes ago, Altazimuth said:

See my prior post. Where does SoM explain how portals in EE were done, "how he was doing it, etc."? You keep asking me to prove code theft so now I'm asking you to prove SoM explained how portals work.

AFAIK, SoM didn't explain anything. But if you're going to point to that and say "The only way he could've figured that out is by looking at SoM's code, so that's code theft," then that's discrediting both Graf as a coder, as well as that he would need an explicit step-by-step instruction of the process with no ability to intuit how it'd work himself.

It's also completely ignoring that someone else did a lot of the heavy work of half-implementing it into ZDoom, so that meant Graf had to figure out way less.

The crux of the issue is that basically you are feeling that the overarching details = the code/implementation. For your accusation to be true, you must prove this true, that there's no way Graf or anyone else could have figured this out without knowing what SoM did and how he did it.

The problem with this assertion is, in addition to the aforementioned link and video, Printz was also working on aspects of this. That code was also already public, and according to him, stalled for years. So it's not like Graf was flying in blind here.

Ultimately it hinges on a simple fact: Is there any way this could've been figured out by anyone while knowing only the very basics of how SoM made it work? If yeah, then it's entirely possible that knowing the loose ideas and having a half-completed implementation already gave him the keys he needed to figure out the rest.

If not, then somehow this was a mystery that eluded everybody until SoM walked up and put it in, and everyone else just follows in his footsteps.

In fact for a while, before Printz fixed the EE portals, they worked better in ZDoom than they did in EE.

Dude don't edit your post after I replied to it to make it look like I'm quoting text that was never there. I know we're having a tiff here but not cool. You can't just delete the portion of the post I'm replying to. Now you just go back to the same old request of asking me to prove a negative. We're not going to see eye to eye on this matter. I posted my evidence, and I'm not going to spend the hours of trawling IRC logs just to find the relevant bit that might have what I remember strengthens my claim in the vain hope that it might make you change you mind, when it's clear to me that that's not going to happen. It's not worth it.

I do not feel overarching details are code/implementation. I accused Graf directly of code theft, and obfuscating out details to throw off the scent. Don't put words in my mouth.

We're going in circles here and it's getting tiresome. I apologise that things have been so hostile between you and I, but I feel like you've been ignoring everything I've said. Right now I want to hear Graf explain for himself, and not have somebody else do it for him.

@Graf Zahl You still never answered who the people are who "have no f*cking clue what they are doing with their reckless actions."

4 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

But not in the hamfisted manner you did it. My problem was not with attribution but with how you handled the request, that made it impossible for me to act on it.

hold on.

let's translate this real quick:

"please be nicer in asking me not to stop doing a bad thing. if you had been nicer in asking me to stop doing a bad thing, i would've stopped."

read that. really read that. take in what that means.

while i'm here i'd encourage people to look up the term "DARVO"