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MsKaye

SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

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40 minutes ago, Gez said:

That said, there's one thing I'll say about the composition of the uncorrected version of SIGILTEX: I like how it's better inscribed into the space. The bottom tip of the pentagram touches the border of the texture, the horns touch the upper corners.

But such perceived space composition is entirely dependent on how the texture is applied within the maps themselves, and when it comes to consistency in this regard, there isn't any!

 

This is how the texture looks with my aspect ratio corrected sprite fixes:

KzvdGdQl.png

X7wASmpl.png

 

What you deem to be better space composition of the original incorrect aspect ratio texture would not apply in these instances. ROMEROOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Revenant100

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I kinda wish he would have made some doom II maps instead of making updates to SIGIL at this point.

 

Doom II's 25th anniversary is a month away. Would have been cool if he made a few new maps.

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If I remember correctly, Romero said he planned on making something for Doom 2 later as well, if the reception of Sigil was good enough. And divisive as it was among fans, it was well received. And there likely wouldn't have been more updates at this point if it wasn't for the repeated delays before it came out.

 

I suppose we're going to see something in the near-ish future from the man. I don't mind the fact that he's still working with the community on improving Sigil and making it as good as it can be, but no doubt he knows he has to draw a line sooner or later. There's only so much you can improve before that stops being a viable option and you get stuck in an endless cycle of perfecting. If you still have ideas left unexplored, it's best to move on and make something else instead.

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16 hours ago, The Maverick013 said:

Is it normal that you can pick up the red key without triggering the Baron of Hell on E5M3?

Well you could pick the red key in E1M6 without opening the monster closed, see it as tradition, heh.

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On 9/26/2019 at 11:55 AM, seed said:

If I remember correctly, Romero said he planned on making something for Doom 2 later as well, if the reception of Sigil was good enough. And divisive as it was among fans, it was well received. And there likely wouldn't have been more updates at this point if it wasn't for the repeated delays before it came out.

 

I suppose we're going to see something in the near-ish future from the man. I don't mind the fact that he's still working with the community on improving Sigil and making it as good as it can be, but no doubt he knows he has to draw a line sooner or later. There's only so much you can improve before that stops being a viable option and you get stuck in an endless cycle of perfecting. If you still have ideas left unexplored, it's best to move on and make something else instead.

 

I'd like to see Romero make a Heretic megawad, too.  That would be interesting.  

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10 hours ago, JCST said:

Well you could pick the red key in E1M6 without opening the monster closed, see it as tradition, heh.

Ha, completely forgot about that. I'll consider it a throwback then :P

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So I played a bit with Buckethead's music after a friend gifted me this version of Sigil, and based on what I've seen so far, I think the experience got a bit too watered down in 1.21. The crusher maze on E5M4 is now completely safe, it's basically hand-holding levels easy now... I initially thought the maze would still have use for the broken pads, but now, there's no surprise they got removed, they're obsolete in the overhauled version.

 

My issue here is that there's no more danger to that section, there's basically no point in even having it anymore apart from the cool factor. Despite this, I feel the difficulty is now more in line with E4 and more like a natural ramp up from it. UV is quite tame now too, so that should please the folks who considered it "too sadistic" (which I never understood tbh). At least from what I've seen so far, I did a dumb thing on E5M6 and basically killed myself, oopsies. E5M5 is also a bit more tame now as the Cybers can't roam freely anymore, an understandable change in order to prevent lock-in damage while telefragging, but it removes a bit from the pressure and the feeling of being hunted down in the Void itself.

 

That red tunnel with the Lost Souls is much more fun now too. So, based on what I've seen so far, 1.21 did some good things, and others that weren't too good. It's interesting how much the music changes the mood honestly, things feel much more "actiony" with Buckethead's music which, in the darkest parts of Sigil, doesn't really fit imo. At the surface sure, but it's too happy sounding and positive for an otherwise ominous and claustrophobic environment that we see early on (and then later... ).

 

Funny, when I was listening to the music while playing, on E5M4 I realized the track used on the map (The Patrolman) has parts that are awfully similar to Eleven Blades of Darkness. I found myself growling parts of Eleven Blades before I realized "Waittaminute... this isn't Diabolicum." Wtf is going on here???" If it was more aggressive/fast it would have been even closer to that song. Maybe Buckethead likes the band, I dunno, I don't mind this, even if it's just one Hell of a coincidence :D . Considering some parts of the map I guess it's fitting, heh.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Seriously, after 2:00 (and especially after 4:00) I can almost imagine Blackblood stepping to sing:

 

"What script would have set you free?
Oh, vermin of the loving god,
What was the feeble life,
Compared with the glory of death?"

 

Spoiler

 

 

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I'm not a huge fan of the changes in 1.2(1), so I took the par times from 1.2 and put them in separate .deh files which can be loaded alongside Sigil 1.1 (and probably 1.0, although I didn't test it) for both gzdoom and compat versions.

SIGIL_PAR.zip

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Speaking of old versions, the official site has them available, by now. Anyway, I have mirrored them on doomshack.org.

 

https://romerogames.ie/s/SIGIL_V1_1.zip

https://romerogames.ie/s/sigil_v1_2.zip

https://romerogames.ie/s/SIGIL_v1_21.zip

 

And these are the SHA-1 hashes I have got so far, to document them. As far I know, 1.1 is the first free version officially released and there is no paid release of 1.21 (understandably).

 






3a0c0bacadb3e4aab10d6fec739723ef1532f5bc  free/SIGIL_V1_1.zip
4ef0ddc4e751ae721158a027999a0cacc0af65dd  free/sigil_v1_2.zip
2eadbf82dc03e4aab9403ef7137a2c1007547328  free/SIGIL_v1_21.zip
1d649c6953b4c989413b624615e3df09b22a4f52  paid/SIGIL_REGISTERED_V1_1.zip
4a23107b847fccd5187cfde447b380ee36fd68ed  paid/SIGIL_REGISTERED_v1_2.zip
1558299d6fe9298ca0456211b204bf656918aad9  paid/sigil-registered-version.zip

Edited by Diabolución : Repair the format.

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8 hours ago, Diabolución said:

Speaking of old versions, the official site has them available, by now. Anyway, I have mirrored them on doomshack.org.

 

https://romerogames.ie/s/SIGIL_V1_1.zip

https://romerogames.ie/s/sigil_v1_2.zip

https://romerogames.ie/s/SIGIL_v1_21.zip

 

And these are the hashes I have got so far, to document them. As far I know, 1.1 is the first free version officially released and there is no paid release of 1.21 (understandably).

 

 

cheers for the links. never realized the old ones were still active.

 

the wad-archive has a v1.0, dated May 1st, that used to be there from way before the official web release, but it only became accessible on the day the freewad went public with v1.1 (May 31st). they're the same wads from the commercial boxes, minus the paid content ofc.

for a moment I thought romerogames.ie had that v1.0 and replaced it before I could grab it, but from what you're sayin' they went straight with v1.1, that correct?

Edited by OleBumma

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Yes, that’s correct. There was never an official free release of 1.0, because 1.1 already became a thing back then. However, there are uploads by third parties, once John Romero lifted the embargo on May 31st , so to speak.


For example, I uploaded this to doomshack.org. According to the HTTP headers, it was uploaded on "Fri, 31 May 2019 09:22:20 GMT". It’s simply the sigil-registered-version.zip archive, but I used 7-Zip to delete the annoying __MACOSX folder and, of couse, the shreds wads.


https://doomshack.org/uploads/sigil_original.zip

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I know I'm late to the party, but I've recently finished Sigil. I'm glad I didn't post my thoughts right after, because I'd have scored it way lower. After thinking about it for some time I can say Sigil is okay, but nothing more. It started GREAT, feeling like a geniune E5, it was just the real deal and you could see JR's touch. But the further I got, the more puzzled I became.

 

- What's with this obsession with super narrow corridors or tiny ledges? Doom is all about manouverability, and Sigil is so cramped and tight. Sometimes I felt like I was playing a cover shooter, because long, narrow corridors made me pop out, shoot once, hide, pop out... It actually felt like Hexen, which also has tight corridors with so many monsters that block you.

 

- Some areas are just too dark, and even though I realize what JR was going for, navigating them was simply not fun. There was also a lot of traps that, in such tight spaces, were impossible to survive unless you knew they were coming.

 

- On the other hand, I loved the art design and music. Frankly, Sigil has the best music of all Doom. And Doom has amazing music in every outing.

 

All in all, No Rest for the Living remains my favourite official add-on, Sigil isn't even close in terms of level design, but it's alright nonetheless. I can vividly remember some parts of the levels, so yeah, it's memorable. But the best levels were the early levels, and the end felt anticlimactic and cheap with its monster placement.

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31 minutes ago, Szuran said:

I know I'm late to the party, but I've recently finished Sigil. I'm glad I didn't post my thoughts right after, because I'd have scored it way lower. After thinking about it for some time I can say Sigil is okay, but nothing more. It started GREAT, feeling like a geniune E5, it was just the real deal and you could see JR's touch. But the further I got, the more puzzled I became.

 

- What's with this obsession with super narrow corridors or tiny ledges? Doom is all about manouverability, and Sigil is so cramped and tight. Sometimes I felt like I was playing a cover shooter, because long, narrow corridors made me pop out, shoot once, hide, pop out... It actually felt like Hexen, which also has tight corridors with so many monsters that block you.

 

- Some areas are just too dark, and even though I realize what JR was going for, navigating them was simply not fun. There was also a lot of traps that, in such tight spaces, were impossible to survive unless you knew they were coming.

 

- On the other hand, I loved the art design and music. Frankly, Sigil has the best music of all Doom. And Doom has amazing music in every outing.

 

All in all, No Rest for the Living remains my favourite official add-on, Sigil isn't even close in terms of level design, but it's alright nonetheless. I can vividly remember some parts of the levels, so yeah, it's memorable. But the best levels were the early levels, and the end felt anticlimactic and cheap with its monster placement.

 

People around here will know I speak out against the crowd, and my response here will be no different. Sigil from what I have heard had been designed with community input. That input, was to make it as god awful hard as possible for those Doom players who have gotten "so good" that they have transcended into the masochistic with difficulty, all while Romero had to keep it somewhat playable for the casuals. What you have then, is a pile of shit noone can really appreciate except those who are REALLY masochistic. Monster placement feels cheap with the cramped quarters, and in some cases you are hanging onto a thin piece of land with a pain sector at the bottom and cacos harassing you. Sigil is definitely past Romero's mapping prime. This mappack was just a cheap way to scrape a few bucks, that's it.

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12 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

People around here will know I speak out against the crowd, and my response here will be no different. Sigil from what I have heard had been designed with community input. That input, was to make it as god awful hard as possible for those Doom players who have gotten "so good" that they have transcended into the masochistic with difficulty, all while Romero had to keep it somewhat playable for the casuals.

 

Or people who can appreciate difficulty. Have you also considered that what you have found difficult others did not? Besides, what exactly did people expect from Sigil, as a TFC continuation? To be a breeze? That's highly unrealistic, and it's still much easier than many modern Doom wads (on HMP it's a walk in the park, consider lowering the difficulty).

 

I'm sorry if this sounds like white-knighting or elitistic, because that's not my intention at all. But seeing people criticizing something because they found it too difficult for their tastes or they got destroyed is baffling. "It sucks because it's hard" should not be considered valid criticism, because it isn't.

 

It was also designed to be enjoyed by players of all skill levels, with UV aimed more towards veterans than anything. Difficulty settings exist for a reason, so always try them when possible.

 

18 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

This mappack was just a cheap way to scrape a few bucks, that's it.

 

The megawad was free, all you could pay for have spent money on was Buckethead's music or the collectors package.

 

And before someone accuses me of "shilling" - might want to read my thoughts on Sigil on the previous pages. I don't think Sigil is perfect (let alone among my favorite Doom megawads), and I, too, got my ass handed back to me on UV in the second half, but that doesn't mean I can't see the effort that was put into it and what others enjoyed about it. But the silly notion of "it sucks because it's too hard" needs to stop, it's upsetting.

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22 minutes ago, seed said:

 

Or people who can appreciate difficulty. Have you also considered that what you have found difficult others did not? Besides, what exactly did people expect from Sigil, as a TFC continuation? To be a breeze? That's highly unrealistic, and it's still much easier than many modern Doom wads (on HMP it's a walk in the park, consider lowering the difficulty).

Well fellow, let me first point out that a criticism on difficulty is indeed valid. Criticisms are opinions are they not? So if we are in agreement on that, then expressing an opinion on difficulty is about as valid as someone saying that a corridor on one map is too small because they cannot dodge effectively. Its an opinion wanting something to change.  Secondly, a game's mechanics (difficulty included) are part of the whole package. I am gobsmacked every time I see a game sell on stupid mechanics. Take Death Stranding for instance, that game is nothing but a damned Fed Ex simulator on foot and people justify its absurd gameplay as a master piece on account of the graphics. To me, a game is a whole package, and the gameplay mechanics matter more than artwork because if I wanna stare at art, I will go to a museum or go to Deviant Art. If a game fails in its gameplay mechanics, its primary mode of entertainment, why should I give it a standing ovation because it looks good? That makes no sense.

 

Quote

 

I'm sorry if this sounds like white-knighting or elitistic, because that's not my intention at all. But seeing people criticizing something because they found it too difficult for their tastes or they got destroyed is baffling. "It sucks because it's hard" should not be considered valid criticism, because it isn't.

Attempting to be rude and then trying to downplay it by being a white knight isn't going to win you any points, so stop two-facing this. You were trying to say that I have no right to my opinion, so just stick with that direction if that is your intention.

 

 

Quote

 

The megawad was free, all you could pay for have spent money on was Buckethead's music or the collectors package.

 

 Because Romero's name was attached to it, it was to generate money. Romero wasn't going to waste time on something he cannot profit on in some way.

 

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To the "Sigil is too hard" crowd: I shall remind y'all that Plutonia exists and is one of the most lauded official things associated with DOOM.

 

That being said, I'm glad the crusher maze got nerfed in 1.2, it was the most crapshoot part. And we got some more intense enemy encounters instead. As I put it:
image.png.24a26fbcedec5586dc4c99a64c2a2050.png

They were a welcome addition, especially the finale.

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1 hour ago, Allard said:

To the "Sigil is too hard" crowd: I shall remind y'all that Plutonia exists and is one of the most lauded official things associated with DOOM.

 

 

 

The difference is, in Plutonia you actually have space to move and sector brigthness isn't set to 80 for half of the experience.

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2 hours ago, warman2012 said:

Well fellow, let me first point out that a criticism on difficulty is indeed valid. Criticisms are opinions are they not? So if we are in agreement on that, then expressing an opinion on difficulty is about as valid as someone saying that a corridor on one map is too small because they cannot dodge effectively.

 

Certainly, it is, but you lose the battle the moment you throw statements like "it sucks because it's too difficult". Maybe try seeing what makes it difficult in the first place and adjust your gameplay accordingly, or lowering the difficulty. Of course, if at the end of the day you can't, and do not, enjoy the said thing, I have no problem with that, and I'm not here to change anyone's mind. But keep in mind that difficulty is a highly subjective topic, what someone found difficult may not be so for the next person.

 

2 hours ago, warman2012 said:

Attempting to be rude and then trying to downplay it by being a white knight isn't going to win you any points, so stop two-facing this. You were trying to say that I have no right to my opinion, so just stick with that direction if that is your intention.

 

No I wasn't, I was trying to tell you that the way you phrased it was rude, so I phrased my reply accordingly. Had the initial comment been different my reply would have looked different too.

 

But speaking of rude, should I also remind you that none of us forgot a topic you started a while ago where you intentionally asked for wads that were, what was it... ah, yes, not "savescumming piles of garbage"? Quite a few people in that topic disproved your inflamatory statement, and it is also ridiculous to expect people to take it kindly when you start throwing affirmations like that around, let alone seriously afterwards.

 

E: And it looks like you're back at it again. Best of luck with such an attitude.

 

2 hours ago, warman2012 said:

Because Romero's name was attached to it, it was to generate money. Romero wasn't going to waste time on something he cannot profit on in some way.

 

Yes he was, the mapset was always meant to be free, and all those collectors items were not mandatory to the experience. He did this to celebrate 25 years of Doom, not out of greed. He could've just as easily released the mapset with nothing more, but wanted to offer something more special to the fans who wanted something more

Edited by seed

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2 hours ago, Szuran said:

 

The difference is, in Plutonia you actually have space to move

...into the line of sight of yet another chaingunner welcoming commitee. If you're lucky that is. If you aren't, then it's doot time.

2 hours ago, Szuran said:

sector brigthness isn't set to 80 for half of the experience.

To be honest, with how a lot of Plut maps look, that would be an improvement. Plutonia's enemy encounter design was great, but it certainly ain't a pretty princess, never was. And as for Sigil, I only remember like one or two parts where the darkness gets too excessive, but for the most part it works.

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