Slaughterfest maps: strategies to win?

I am playing MAP 26 and 27 or % Rooms of Doom. I generally enjoy this WAD and map 27 is just so gorgeous. But I am wondering if it is even beatable? I am able to survive for a very long time, but when the path becomes lava and you have islands all over - it becomes just impossible in my book. I can barely survive on iddqd, if you know what I mean.

Has anyone ever beaten this? And what are the strategies? I end up running around and waiting until the infighting clams the area down a bit.

I was also searching for secrets. The map says there are 15, but I have no idea what they are and I don't want to look through the editor just quite yet. A number of powerups that are visible I have no idea how to reach. I tried going around the map with the nomonsters flag, but could see no clues whatsoever.

Anyway, if anyone would like to do a run through of the map with commentary, that'd be awesome!

My winning strat for slaughtermaps is not to play them. All joking aside though, you usually gotta play dirty. Find a cheap camping spot that enemies have a hard time accessing and abuse the hell out of it. Slaughtermaps are also very trial and error in their gameplay. You usually need to know whats going to happen in a slaughtermap if you want any chance of succeeding.

I have not played this specific map, but a general tip would be that your movement speed is your biggest asset, if you can just keep moving then most projectiles won't have chance to hit you. If you can move in a wide sweeping motion this is safer - this is why circle-strafing is a common talking point when it comes to slaughter map combat. If an encounter is overwhelming in terms of sheer volume of monsters then sometimes prioritising killing low-hp fodder will give you the valuable space to move and dodge projectiles. Also understanding the BFG mechanics (ie that most damage is done from the secondary tracers emitted from the player) is a very useful skill to have.

The statement in the above post of "find a cheap camping spot" is another way of saying just 'cheese the map' which is obviously not always applicable and therefore poor advice. Not to mention the factually incorrect blanket statement about trial and error gameplay.

Yeah, I'm certainly not good at slaughtermaps, but a good slaughtermap is definitely not trial and error. I've seen people do some crazy things in first-time playthroughs. Slaughter players have a specific set of skills, and slaughtermappers design maps to be about those specific skills.

Thanks, guys!

I find myself generally enjoying slaughter maps as these kind of puzzles. Maybe I am wrong about that and there is no puzzle, but at least in my attempts to seriously play a couple of them I was able to advance far.

However, each time I reach a point when I just don't know what to do. For instance, in MAP27 in Five Rooms I have successfully learned to reach the blue key unscathed. But after I take the blue key, the hell that's unleashed is just overwhelming and seems absolutely impossible. I have saved at this point and tried all sorts of approaches, but nothing works, I just get killed. Even if I do iddqd and run around, I just see no openings to advance further.

If there is anything I can read on the topic, I would be most grateful.

Was able to advance further!

I was able to use the radioation suit and run around on the ledge enough that the cacos and imps were gone. Then I found a spot from which to kill the close-by revenants and archviles, and was then able to move around. I also discovered that island have special stones that allow you to jump from one island to another.

I am truly fascinated by this map. Incredible work!

I beat it!!!!!

Will try to record a walkthrough soon.

So map 27 of "5 rooms of doom" isn't really a slaughtermap.  Stuff in the slaughterfests, Sunder, Sunlust, etc... are true slaughter maps.  I'd watch some demos tbh to get better.  You'll notice that the players are much braver with the kinds of fights that would scare away the average player.  Also, it would behoove you to get good at learning how to 2 shot cyberdemons.  You're going to die a lot though, just get used to it.  You're going to die.  A lot.  But have fun while you do!!

6 hours ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

So map 27 of "5 rooms of doom" isn't really a slaughtermap.  Stuff in the slaughterfests, Sunder, Sunlust, etc... are true slaughter maps.  I'd watch some demos tbh to get better.  You'll notice that the players are much braver with the kinds of fights that would scare away the average player.  Also, it would behoove you to get good at learning how to 2 shot cyberdemons.  You're going to die a lot though, just get used to it.  You're going to die.  A lot.  But have fun while you do!!

How would you characterize it then?

Probably a hard plutonia styled map,  maybe a Hell revealed style map.  

But how would you define a slaughtermap more generally? And why does MAP27 not fall under the definition of a slaughtermap? I thought a slaughtermap is a map which features an excessive amount of monsters dumped in one room.

well, I'd say that map 27 is a light slaughter map, go look at Sunder for an example of what true slaughter looks like.  Slaughter maps do dump a lot of monsters into one area but it's more about monster density.  Played through the map, you're right.  It's definitely a difficult map, but because it never crams in monsters like sardines it's not a real slaughter map.

5 hours ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

Probably a hard plutonia styled map,  maybe a Hell revealed style map.  

A Hell Revealed map is a slaughtermap lol

No, only 2 of them were really slaughter.  24 and 32.  

Sorry but you seem to have a case of ‘slaughter-flex’, given away by the ‘really’ comment. Mass of enemies = slaughtermap.

19 hours ago, General Rainbow Bacon said:

Also, it would behoove you to get good at learning how to 2 shot cyberdemons

'Behoove' is perfect word selection for cyb-related skills.

I have recorded MAP27 walkthrough and will post it shortly.

On 10/17/2019 at 9:22 PM, Horus said:

A Hell Revealed map is a slaughtermap lol

Nah, grb is right in this case. HR style is distinctly different to "slaughter", although both terms have varied usage. Most HR1 maps don't have particularly high monster density (about the same density as Memento Mori imo), and tend to challenge the player with monster placement instead.

HR2 is fairly close to modern slaughter though.

I feel that this is a case of relatively vague definitions. It's like "what's to consider rock music". You get the general idea, but can argue over details and edge cases, and then it turns out that 99% of it are edge cases.

On 10/17/2019 at 4:22 PM, Horus said:

A Hell Revealed map is a slaughtermap lol

On 10/17/2019 at 4:34 PM, Horus said:

Sorry but you seem to have a case of ‘slaughter-flex’, given away by the ‘really’ comment. Mass of enemies = slaughtermap.

The vast majority of people who play or build slaughtermaps will probably agree that Hell Revealed (1) doesn't qualify as a slaughterWAD. In fact, the very same people will also agree that SunLust isn't a slaughterWAD in spite of having a few maps of that style. Actually, Valiant has a higher monster density than hell revealed in places, but Valiant also isn't a slaughterWAD.

On 10/19/2019 at 7:36 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

 

The vast majority of people who play or build slaughtermaps will probably agree that Hell Revealed (1) doesn't qualify as a slaughterWAD. In fact, the very same people will also agree that SunLust isn't a slaughterWAD in spite of having a few maps of that style. Actually, Valiant has a higher monster density than hell revealed in places, but Valiant also isn't a slaughterWAD.

 Oh, Sh*t! So i was crying on the corner of my room for nothing?

My life is wasted...

On 10/19/2019 at 5:28 PM, LouigiVerona said:

I feel that this is a case of relatively vague definitions. It's like "what's to consider rock music". You get the general idea, but can argue over details and edge cases, and then it turns out that 99% of it are edge cases.

To me, "slaughter" is more of a style of an encounter that has figured into the mapsets mentioned in this thread rather than constituting the entirety of their gameplay. Because of this I think that it has become something of a perjorative / catch-all for high skill-ceiling releases (something like "difficult + I see more monsters than I am comfortable with = slaughter"). I don't know how long that the term "slaughter" has been in the community's vernacular as far as it applies to a style of combat, but it predates the slaughter scene as it exists today.

22 hours ago, kmxexii said:

 

To me, "slaughter" is more of a style of an encounter that has figured into the mapsets mentioned in this thread rather than constituting the entirety of their gameplay. Because of this I think that it has become something of a perjorative / catch-all for high skill-ceiling releases (something like "difficult + I see more monsters than I am comfortable with = slaughter"). I don't know how long that the term "slaughter" has been in the community's vernacular as far as it applies to a style of combat, but it predates the slaughter scene as it exists today.

As i recall, well, all began with the Casali bross. doing their job apart from team TNT and releasing the everyone (not me!) beloved ''The Plutonia Experiment'', with tons and tons of chaingunners in your back in every map, and a lot of cramped encounters and a lot of everything that cemented the base for the slaughter wads to come.
And yes, then come Hell Revealed a wad that tried so hard to be hard, and succeded!

From there it went downhill, or up, doesn't matter, its just a point of view.

I will mention some wads i consider to be pretty hard and near slaughter wads (in short, for me, slaughter wads :P) first:

Hell Revealed 1/ Hell Revealed 2

Plutonia / Plutinia 2 / Plutonia Revisited

Alien Vendetta

Valiant

Sunlust

Sunder

Ancient Aliens

Deus Vult / Deus Vult 2

etc.

I don't like a particular thing about this wads and is something they got in common, what? well its easy...

... They had absolutely outstanding and good looking maps that are somewhat impossible to look at with all the slaughter around.

Thats my only complain with this kind of maps, why make them soo astonishing and spectacular to see, if they will be hardly looked at all? i don't play god since i got four years old!

I know that mapping is an art, probably a lost art for today standars, but, i don't know, if i make something beautiful to look at, i want it to be looked at, then i put the difficult section.

Well excuse my rant...

In short, a good strategy is run, don't use the rocket launcher in tight spaces, run, shoot every damm thing that moves, run, run a little more, run like hell, and try not to die.

Easy to say!

Don't you think?

Please, I don't want to give any kind of history lesson of Doom, @kmxexii, the ONEMANDOOM himself has played far more that i can play in my life, and is far more adept to describe things as they are than me, i just pointed another point of view.

13 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

As i recall, well, all began with the Casali bross. doing their job apart from team TNT and releasing the everyone (not me!) beloved ''The Plutonia Experiment'', with tons and tons of chaingunners in your back in every map, and a lot of cramped encounters and a lot of everything that cemented the base for the slaughter wads to come.

And there's only one slaughtermap in all of plutonia, it's in slot 32.

A couple dozen monsters at once doesn't magically make anything slaughter, and it's also not suddenly slaughter because it's more difficult than Doom II. Valiant for example is in no way shape or form a slaughterWAD, in fact, much like plutonia, it has only 1 slaughtermap across all 32 maps, which also is in slot 32.

5 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

And there's only one slaughtermap in all of plutonia, it's in slot 32.

 

A couple dozen monsters at once doesn't magically make anything slaughter, and it's also not suddenly slaughter because it's more difficult than Doom II. Valiant for example is in no way shape or form a slaughterWAD, in fact, much like plutonia, it has only 1 slaughtermap across all 32 maps, which also is in slot 32.

yeah yeah, i know, i'm not a slaughter map fundamentalist at all.

I just pointed things that seem pretty hard and nearly unfair to play, for me at least.
I just want to had fun with the maps, not suffer them.

For me its like, if i had to constantly reload (even on Hey not to rough!), it is somewhat a slaughter wad.

Nuff said!

Don't be a pussy and don't be scared of failing. A lot of the time players mess up by trying to play it safe when mapsets like Ribbikswads often leave with you no choice but to take the challenge head on. It's all about trial and error. Accomplished mappers would never release a mapset with unbeatable maps - you just have to figure out how to tackle the encounters they contain. Learn to prioritise your targets, learn to control monster crowds with your movement, learn to use the BFG to its full potential. Like all things, it takes time. I still swear profusely each time I play Swim with the Whales.

Oh, and don't forget to pray to the not-always-benevolent gods of RNG. Because arch-viles never get stunned when you most desperately need 'em to.

10 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Don't be a pussy and don't be scared of failing. A lot of the time players mess up by trying to play it safe when mapsets like Ribbikswads often leave with you no choice but to take the challenge head on. It's all about trial and error. Accomplished mappers would never release a mapset with unbeatable maps - you just have to figure out how to tackle the encounters they contain. Learn to prioritise your targets, learn to control monster crowds with your movement, learn to use the BFG to its full potential. Like all things, it takes time. I still swear profusely each time I play Swim with the Whales.

Ahhh! Pussy, what a delicious word!

Thats what i said to me everytime i died, and that why i'm still here... trying at least.

Seems like ''WANTED!'', you know, that movie with James McAvoy, Morgan Freeman and Angelina Jolie where bullets can make curves with the might of your constant training, is the movie for the Doom community. If anybody saw it, they will surely understand this.

Righto, pussies?

PD: For the record... one of my personal achievements is finishing Going Down in UV, and really enjoying the voyage from up to bottom... and up again, from the visuals to the gameplay. And i play it for almost like a moth or so.

I make a promise to myself to never again take so personal with a game.

If i can't, i can't... but i can try a little more... maybe later.

Yeah, eloquence is not my strongest suit. 

It's okay to get frustrated. I think it's all about finding the right difficulty curve for you. The perfect starting point, in my eyes, for any beginner slaughter player is the first Newgothic Movement. The monster counts might be intimidating, but even on UV the levels are pretty forgiving - Armoredblood is always generous with ammo and health. Unlike certain other mappers who love leaving you with just a chaingun to face off several HKs and an Archie... Ahem.

2 minutes ago, Firedust said:

Yeah, eloquence is not my strongest suit. 

 

It's okay to get frustrated. I think it's all about finding the right difficulty curve for you. The perfect starting point, in my eyes, for any slaughter player is the first Newgothic Movement. The monster counts might be intimidating, but even on UV the levels are pretty forgiving - Armoredblood is always generous with ammo and health. Unlike certain other mappers who love leaving you with just a chaingun to face off several HKs and an Archie... Ahem.

Gonna try them soon and put my mediocre abilities to test...

oh, this tread make me think something... i'm gonna open a post...

later!

Valiant is one of the best wads ever created, in my personal opinion. It is really hard, however it is most definitely not a slaughterwad. I would agree that perhaps the last level is a little slaughter-ish, but I don't equate hard with slaughtermap, for sure.