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ZeMystic

What if Ultimate Doom added everything from Doom 2?

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The Ultimate Doom was released after Doom 2, adding a whole new episode into the original. However it didn't add anything from Doom 2 into OG Doom. What would you think would've happened if they added everything. Do you think that Ultimate Doom would've been the go to for custom megawads? or it'd be more common to get full ultimate doom wads?

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18 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I can't speak for others, but I don't think I've ever made a single Ultimate Doom map in my entire life, strictly because I can't place Hell Knights, Revenants, Mancs, Arachnotrons and SSGs.

 

Up until very recently making a map for Deadly Standards 3, I'd never made a UD map either. It was a huge learning curve having to find interesting ways of using half the bestiary I was accustomed to, and my appreciation for authors who churn out entire 4 episode UD wads skyrocketed. It takes some serious creativity!

 

I always wondered what it would be like to take the 4 UD episodes and add in the Doom 2 enemies and SSG -- leave everything as is, in terms of layout and texturing, just go through and re-populate the maps with the full bestiary and the SSG. Has there ever been a community project that did this? 

 

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48 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

This is more of a "wadmaking culture over the years" gripe, but when making Doom2 campaigns I swear there is a pressure to make it at least 15 maps, just to get it into the megawad category.

Somebody had changed the definition of "MegaWAD" recently ;P

 

If UD has everything from D2, probably they won't be separated from each other any more, but this didn't happen in our timeline, so no one knows. TBH, missing the things from D2 limits the design probabilities quite a lot, and it's understandable you only map for D2. Personally I probably avoid playing UD maps unless the project is very high quality.

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If you are targeting at the very least Crispy Doom, I guess you could take advantage of the native support for No Rest for the Living and create an episode for Doom II which follows the same level progression, overriding the maps, level names, par times, musics and ending text of nerve.wad.

 

I haven’t seen such project yet, but it should be pretty doable and provide the best of both worlds: proper episode format and expanded resources of Doom II.

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In the community, this would've made the split more even, as the majority of wad makers use Doom 2's IWAD to build stuff.

 

As about the games themselves, Doom 2 would've been just an expansion to the original Doom, and the difficulty of the original would've been completely trivialized after the addition of the SSG.

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If you provide original sprites for the monsters, and a small DeHackEd file to change their editor numbers, you can get most of the Doom II content into Ultimate Doom. The SSG and Megasphere will still be a problem.

 

 

7 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Somebody had changed the definition of "MegaWAD" recently ;P

No, not recently. The text blurb on /idgames hasn't been changed in decades.

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6 hours ago, Andromeda said:

He's probably referring to John Romero announcing SIGIL as a megawad despite it only having 9 levels.

In a technical sense, Sigil is a megawad. 9 SP maps + 9 DM maps.

Quote

Q: You mentioned that there’s nine levels in this megawad, as well as nine deathmatch-only levels. Are there eighteen levels in the megawad?

A: Actually, there are only nine distinct level wad files. It turns out that you can put both the single- player and the deathmatch levels in the same wad. If you run the wad in deathmatch mode, you spawn in the deathmatch area of the level. If you play the SIGIL Megawad in cooperative mode, you start in the single-player part of the level. This support has been in DOOM® since the beginning.

 

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Which of course leads to my big question: should I invest in an old-school Doom II converter to use on Sigil before I play it?  Maybe I've played too much Maximum Doom and it has fried my brain (quite likely), but I seriously don't wanna have to stand there shotgunning a caco six times a piece; if I'm playin' Doom, I need the boomstick, son.  And I'm willing to put up with all the other changes that entails, mainly the shattering of enemy balance when every forth shotgunner is turned into a chaingunner, cacos change into Pain Elementals, barons to hell knights, and of course the obligatory single pinky transformed into an Arch-Vile, usually at the start of a level.  Bring that shit on. 

Suck it down

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Life hack: Open SIGIL In Doom Builder, use “find and replace” in a few of the maps to swap all shotguns for SSGs (sergeants will undoubtedly provide you with single barrels). Rename the internal MIDIs accordingly to get them to play back in Doom2 (to d_runnin and such). Load alongside doom1-2.wad, which is simply all the doom1 textures in a vanilla-compat wad that works for Doom2. Its more effort than DMCNV32 or whatever that old converter was called, but it won’t go around replacing all the textures with butt-ugly ones and plopping down 7 arch viles at random!

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SLADE can do the search-and-replace thing automatically in all maps. Archive->Maintenance->Replace in Maps.

 

You need to know the editor numbers, but you can find them on the wikis.

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On 10/31/2019 at 4:27 AM, ZeMystic said:

What would you think would've happened if they added everything

 

Playstation Doom will happen here.

 

(See also Pain Elemental and Chaingunner on E1M1)

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I think you can already have the ultimate experience if you use Wad Smoosh :D

 

 

I did and even made it work with heretic in the mix, I have currently added all episodes from Blood and more by including various modded blood TCs, plus everything is 3D models

 

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There would have been way more Ultimate Doom content alongside Doom 2 content, considering some like the episodic format rather than the 30 map full-on set.

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