food for thought

Here's a thought i've been throwing around: I've been around the community for 3 years, more or less. I'm noticing a real major decline in the enthusiasm of the total conversion. So i ask you, why is that? Have we as a community just kinda shrugged off the hype and enthusiasm of playing the good ol doom phnonenom under new conditions? Or is doom just too old for anything worthwhile to come out on to it. Is it becasue many of the legends in doom editing history have moved on and that the new era of mods out there aren't as high of quality? Come to think of it, since doom III was announced, i havn't really seen any "new" conversions announced. (or maybe i'm just ignorant) What would it take for someone to come out with a totally new expierience under the doom engine and get people excited? Or maybe my enthusiasm has died; as i've seen various cool projects like ninja doom or hellstorm just go the way or the dinosaurs that i'm blindsided by the new era of doom megawads. Not that my opinion makes me knologable on this kind of thing....I'll shutup now....

It may be just engine limitations. However, the game is old, and quite alot has been done already...Some people may have a hard time getting the enthusiasm for making something quite possibly because of the complete lack of ai in the engine (and modifying the code may be too much for alot of people to handle). Plain ol' 32 map megawads have been done to death. Just think of what could be done with, possibly Half-life like ai...No longer would we be blasting 1000's of mindless hellspawn...We could, um....well, you get the picture.

On top of that, I understand modding the engine is tough work, however, There are many things that could be done with it, yet nobody has really taken it upon themself to code something really far-out, and see what Doom can do....maybe I said that wrong. What i mean is that most source ports just update doom by adding nice little fetures here and there (that's good BTW)..and now we're seeing cool things like 3d floors and slopes and hardware acceleration.

What i'd like to see is better ai (could be done perhaps like scripting maybe?). Zdoom scripts and the obsoletion of dehacked....But I think that'll be staying with us.

A lot of the people who were really excited and dedicated to making TCs either got hired by someone, or outgrew it.

Quast: There's plenty of scripted ZDoom wads out there. (check out my ZDoom wad, Licence to Spell DooM if you really want ZDoom scripts....) As for dehacked, until everyone knows how to use Boom extensions (I'm trying that at the moment) it will be around for a long time. (in any case, dehacked is still very important)

I think it's because whenever someone gets an idea, they a) Ask for help, but don't get any, because everyone is already working on something. (Which is OK, the more wads the better) and/or b) Start working, get bored after 2 levels, and quit. Creation of a TC is no easy task!

Epyo said:

I think it's because whenever someone gets an idea, they a) Ask for help, but don't get any, because everyone is already working on something. (Which is OK, the more wads the better) and/or b) Start working, get bored after 2 levels, and quit. Creation of a TC is no easy task!

I suffer from b too much. :P

However, my new project has a theme I can never get bored of. EGYPT!! Only much harder [funner]. I just gotta find some better weapons, and work on the maps a lot. (It's my TC and I'm sticking to it)

ravage said:

I suffer from b too much. :P

Ditto. I tried to start another Mod like ICD-LIZARD, but after making a few new guns, I got tired of it. I think I'll just add more stuff to the current ICD-LIZARD...

Ultimate DooMer said:

Quast: There's plenty of scripted ZDoom wads out there. (check out my ZDoom wad, Licence to Spell DooM if you really want ZDoom scripts....)

Maybe i said that wrong...haha, yeh i know about the scripts and all. I think I meant to say something like new creature/object/weapon definitions....that could be done somehow, like scripting....But the one thing that baffles me is why we can't have more sprites. Shouldn't engine modders be able to work around this? I don't see why there is a set limit that can only be supassed by getting rid of some doom ones or using heretic/hexen ones.

i just downloaded doomcad a couple of months ago, but i need somebody to sit down and teach it to me, seeing as the tutorial doesn't make a damn bit of sense. since the tutorial doesn't do anything, i get bored just learning how to make levels, much less making a tc. but if i ever get it down, i'll make a tc.

monochrome said:

i just downloaded doomcad a couple of months ago, but i need somebody to sit down and teach it to me, seeing as the tutorial doesn't make a damn bit of sense. since the tutorial doesn't do anything, i get bored just learning how to make levels, much less making a tc. but if i ever get it down, i'll make a tc.

I suppose you don´t know the definitions of vertice, linedef, sidedef, sector and thing. The DoomCAD tutorial only teaches one to put all that things on a map, and Matt says in the tutorial that he assumes that the person already knows those concepts, if I´m not mistaken. So I´d suggest that you search a tutorial that teaches you what each element means before heading to an editor tutorial.

well, i kinda have an idea of what those things are. kinda. i can make out a basic level, but i'm not skilled enough to do it well. the tutuorial confuses the hell outta me. like i said, i'll work on learning the arts, and if anyone knows of anything good to learn and build with, i'll come back with an ass kickin' tc.

yes, i'm done with the third person and multiple personality disorder. voice suppresant drugs work.

I myself have tried, and abandoned a few TCs. Only for 2 reasons though!
1) Time.
I've always got a very large lack of it. ESP in an animation college.
2) The pallete.
NOTHING bickers with me more. I can deal with screwy linedefs, and such becuse eventually I -can- get those right, but the instant I need a colour that is not on that damned pallete, and I try to either make a colour in it, or a new pallete, CRASH!! nothing works!

Well, I'm working on a wolfy TC. I've been working on it on and off for a few months now. I am how ever abit stuck when it comes to levels...

monochrome said:

well, i kinda have an idea of what those things are. kinda. i can make out a basic level, but i'm not skilled enough to do it well. the tutuorial confuses the hell outta me. like i said, i'll work on learning the arts, and if anyone knows of anything good to learn and build with, i'll come back with an ass kickin' tc.

Have you ever tried Deepsea? It has a great tutorial on the sidebar.

monochrome said:

well, i kinda have an idea of what those things are. kinda. i can make out a basic level, but i'm not skilled enough to do it well. the tutuorial confuses the hell outta me. like i said, i'll work on learning the arts, and if anyone knows of anything good to learn and build with, i'll come back with an ass kickin' tc.

yes, i'm done with the third person and multiple personality disorder. voice suppresant drugs work.

you could also look at the original maps, and see how stuff is done... :)

I've never done anything great cuz I'm lazy. I was thinking of doing a WW2 conversion for quake 1 a while back, way before WW2 games were popular, but after getting one new enemy done and a level done I just got bored of it. But I surely would love to see more megawads, Alien Vendetta was just plain awesome. Maybe I should try and figure out how to make levels sometime. Anyways, that community chest megawad thing looks pretty kewl, as well as several other projects being worked on, so I wouldn't worry too much about the "state of doom affairs". Carry on.

Nimrod was awesome. I think that as a whole we dont give out enough credit where its deserved

Agh -- trying to make a huge, intricate map, just one, can be hefty work indeed. To fit in all details, to work out everything for good gameplay and placement have to be done. I guess that type of undertaking has to be done in bites.

Because everyone's finally realizing that Doom is old?

When was there any enthusiasm for "TCs" anyway? I think mods are usually hip only when a new engine is released, like when DeHackEd or boom appeared. You can see some being developed for zdoom now. But there's never been much for TCs in respect to DOOM, because the people interested in such things might as well use another engine, since DOOM is, naturally, best for DOOM. Also, this is a DOOM site, so, some people here may like some TCs, but what we'll most probably agree on liking is the unadulterated game, not some alteration.

Katarhyne said:

Because everyone's finally realizing that Doom is old?

No. :P

Katarhyne said:

Because everyone's finally realizing that Doom is old?

I refuse to recognize that statement.

DooMBoy said:

I refuse to recognize that statement.

Good Lord, people, grow up: Doom is old. But, so what? There are a sh*tload of folks who continue to play, edit, and talk about it, because we still like it, dammit. And yes, most crazy ideas have been explored, but we all still hunger for the cool little effect that makes us go "How the *$%# did they do that?"

My point: Doom is ANCIENT, but who gives a flying f*ck? (And how 'bout this: the movie Aliens is 10 years older than Doom and we still watch it, don't we?)