DwarfCleric Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) Wow, what a treat and what a coincidence to remember of downloading this mod right after it is released. Finished map01 so far, plays beautifully. I went ahead and noclipped through the next few maps just to see if I would come across areas that cause slowdown and would prevent me from playing this. I have a potato computer from 2008 with openGL 3.3, so that's why I have to take this into consideration. So far nothing game-breakingly slow, even that huge area in map05. I came across some severe slowdowns and took screenshots of the areas just for the sake of comparison. What intrigues me is that there are some relatively small areas that slowdown to a crawl to the same degree as that huge open area in map05. So it seems it's not only a matter of "amount of sectors or linedefs in view", there is something else going on. Even that huge area in map05, when you look closer at it there's not an overbearing number of sectors or walls to justify that kind of slowdown, specially when you look at the castle itself. So I wanna take advantage of having this slow computer and try putting the work into releasing an alternative version for other people with older computers such as mine. The issues I'm talking about are not even noticeable in newer computers, so that's where I can put this little plastic box to a useful task. And since you are here at the moment, the original creator of the mod, you can help me obtaining the original map files and the info I need to achieve that. Would be possible for you to send me the maps 03, 04 and 05 separately? Or pointing me the directions for extracting these maps from the PK3 file in order to be able to open these maps on any editor. Below are the screenshots of the stuff I'm talking about. Spoiler Edited April 13, 2020 by DwarfCleric : pics under spoilers 0 Share this post Link to post
Fletcher` Posted December 9, 2019 Considering you have such an old computer I'm honestly not surprised. Gzdoom tends to be very CPU intensive, not really utilizing the GPU at all if I remember. Many of those scenes you posted have a lot of actors or portals, which tends to drive the cpu requirements up. I'm afraid it only gets much worse in later levels. There's not much I can do for you. 0 Share this post Link to post
Salt-Man Z Posted December 9, 2019 Is there a minimum GZDoom you recommend? I know I played earlier releases of Hocusdoom on older versions of GZDoom without problems, but I know later versions of GZDoom (4.0 and onward, at the very least) give me performance issues. 0 Share this post Link to post
Fletcher` Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Salt-Man Z said: Is there a minimum GZDoom you recommend? I know I played earlier releases of Hocusdoom on older versions of GZDoom without problems, but I know later versions of GZDoom (4.0 and onward, at the very least) give me performance issues. Considering it uses zscript I'd stick with anything later than 4.0. 0 Share this post Link to post
DwarfCleric Posted December 10, 2019 The only editor capable of opening your maps is gzDoomBuilder? Any other tools you recommend for this one? I'm on Linux, so in order for me to open it on Wine (windows emulator) I have to install Net Framework, and I couldn't install it, tried multiple times before. I will see if I can fire up a virtual machine. (I can run Slade3 on wine, but I don't know how to extract maps from it, if even possible) I know it will be hard work and there will be some steep learning curve, but I'm willing to put up the work since I will benefit from it too. Do you remember from the top of your head which map is that room at image 02a and 02b? That metal thing with flames. I will start by that room since it is "small", if I'm able to get improvements on that one I think I will be able to diagnose what's happening. (eliminating features one by one until I notice something) I'm very aware that you already spent massive amounts of work on this for free, so I will not bother you unless is strictly necessary. The time for me to make questions is now, since most of this stuff is already hot on your head, see? 0 Share this post Link to post
Fletcher` Posted December 10, 2019 You're going to have to 'fix' 3/4 of all the maps then. From map05 they only get bigger and more detailed. 1 Share this post Link to post
DwarfCleric Posted December 11, 2019 I kept warping and noclipping until map 10 or 11, something like that. No map caused me more slowdowns than map05. That section with blue spikes and the room with metal structure and flames were the worst in terms of performance, but I still could jump, dodge shots, shoot at enemies, so it's not so bad as other mods I tried before. NetFramework is not working for me on Linux so I will see if I can set up a virtual machine for this, just waiting for some break from work. 0 Share this post Link to post
DwarfCleric Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Ok, significant progress has been made, it was simpler than I expected, I thought I would have to change the maps' geometry but it was not necessary at all, just removing some of the decorative 3D objects (everything that is not a sprite) Maps can still be enjoyed without any changes to gameplay, purely cosmetic changes. So far I was able to fix map05, map09 and map18. The files on the link below only have changes to map09 and map18 so you can see what I'm talking about. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cy4b3dvu7k7clzp/AAA5Aju7NeDa6vZoVruhXDpJa?dl=0 Slade works on Linux right away but I never noticed it had a map editor, I thought it was used only for extract/repack stuff? So luckily I didn't have to mess with Net Framework for getting gzdoomBuilder running. (any other editors suggested?) Spoiler I just need help with a single thing in Slade: is there a way to remove or select all "things" of a particular type from the map, without having to select them one by one? Or is there a way to "Find and Replace All" like there was for DoomBuilder2? (these things were present in DoomBuilder when I used more than a decade ago, but on Linux I'm restricted with apps that don't require NetFramework to run) Also, creating new lines/sectors on Slade seem to break the map, lines get out of place, some become invisible, etc. So I'm restricted to only removing objects from the maps. Is this normal or is it because I don't have a nodebuilder select in the options? (a message appears when I save) Then, after all the work has been done, it came the time for me to playtest map09 to see if gameplay was unaffected. I had my jaw dropped on the floor with the level design, even with Godmode enabled I had to figure what to do in the map to progress, it was not simply a case of running and getting to the exit. The level design on this thing is some next level shit! Don't miss this one out! If anything, I feel like some enemies take too many hits to kill, but oh well not a big deal really. (optional TL:DR technical part, you can skip it if you want...) Spoiler For map05 it was particularly impressive, I just had to remove the "ceiling spikes" that are present under floating platforms, there were a small number of those but the amount of slowdown they caused is just baffling. Would appreciate if anyone with more knowledge on these particular items to chime in and explain why would they cause such a high CPU usage spike. The other item I removed on map05 were the "Snowfall Spawners", as far as I can tell they spawn particles in the air. There would be nothing wrong with that, my 512MB GPU should be able to handle simple particles (like it does when I play Quake maps with 600+ enemies on them...) but it seems like these particles are not entirely handled by the GPU itself (like it should on any 3D application) It seems like these particles use CPU cycles for some calculations. (I'm guessing all of this from my observations, but it would be super cool if someone would come here and correct the points I got wrong with actual explanations, instead of getting all emotional about it without any arguments) And that was it for map05: removing the ceiling spikes and SnowfallSpawner did it. Butter smooth framerates now. Anyone out there with pre-2009 rigs to test this out? Anyway, the link is there, new files will be thrown inside of this same directory. For map09 all I had to do (after many tries trying to figure out the culprit) was simply removing all 3D torches from the map (orange objects in the editor) For map18 I had to remove torches (orange objects) and small 3D bushes (small green objects that only appear when you zoom in the editor) For map18 there is some amount of slowdown in that big area up north with the trees, but as it is playable for now I will not bother with it, doesn't break gameplay or anything (like it did before) Another note from map09: the wall of 3D blocks that make up "walls" (black bricks) don't impact framerate on any way, removing them made no difference, even though they appear to be 3D objects too. Spoiler Edited April 13, 2020 by DwarfCleric : spoiler tags 0 Share this post Link to post
Fletcher` Posted December 16, 2019 Maybe you should make a new thread for this. 4 Share this post Link to post
DwarfCleric Posted December 16, 2019 You did this entire thing using gzDoomBuilder alone? Or other tools too? If there was a way to remove certain objects from the entire WAD, instead of removing them on each map, that would work too. Since I am removing all torches either way, wouldn't make a difference, just the method that changes. 0 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted December 17, 2019 @DwarfCleric First off, basic forum etiquette is to use the spoiler feature (designated by an 'eye' in the editor) to collapse ginormous batches of pictures so that your posts don't take up ungodly amounts of vertical space. Second, it's not to derail threads with EDITS of someone's wad that they didn't even ask for in the first place. Are you serious? 7 Share this post Link to post
fraggle Posted December 17, 2019 8 hours ago, rf` said: Maybe you should make a new thread for this. Split into a separate thread as suggested. I'm assuming from lack of objection that you're okay with this mod - if you're not, let me know. 0 Share this post Link to post
Fletcher` Posted December 17, 2019 I have no problem with it, but I have no plans to contribute to it. 0 Share this post Link to post
DwarfCleric Posted December 17, 2019 Ok, most problems were solved, the maps run well now, with the exception of projectiles from some enemies (Snakes map14, Scorpions map16 and the green flying lizards on map22) How would I edit or replace these projectiles? Can that be done on Slade too? That's why I asked before what editor you used ;) 0 Share this post Link to post
DwarfCleric Posted April 13, 2020 Forgot to update this. I was able to fix the mod so it runs in older hardware, using only Slade (compatible with Linux/Wine) Download links are the same, the last version is Hocus_revision07.pk3 There will be other mods being included on the "Other Butchering Projects" folder, among other stuff that I find useful. These are my personal backups, but since I already had that stuff online I figured I might as well share the link. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cy4b3dvu7k7clzp/AAA5Aju7NeDa6vZoVruhXDpJa?dl=0 Tested with LZdoom (version dated November-2019) and compatible with gzdoom 3.2.1 (October 2017 - doesn't require OpenGL 3.0) 1 Share this post Link to post
