Am I just alone in wanting something...more retro?

So, as the title suggests, and if any of you are aware, I hate the direction Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal has taken par the course. However, I have looked at a mod called Slayer's Testaments for the Quake 1 engine. I have watched trailers for this mod and the feel there is more of what I am after. Doom for me has to be retro, its how I experienced it and how I want it to continue. I don't know how much of a minority I am in, but that is the way it is.

Some sounds and gameplay mechanics I would like to see changed or optional would be the use of fatality glory kills for health and ammo along with some of the weapon sounds and enemy sounds. The gun sounds do not resonate power when used and some of the enemy sounds like the imp are just plain annoying to hear.

Anyone else feel the way I do?

7 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Some sounds and gameplay mechanics I would like to see changed or optional would be the use of fatality glory kills for health and ammo

This was optional in 2016.

16 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

However, I have looked at a mod called Slayer's Testaments for the Quake 1 engine. I have watched trailers for this mod and the feel there is more of what I am after.

If the Slayer's Testament mod looks more to your liking, then don't get Doom Eternal and just play that Quake mod. Seems simple enough. I'm not sure what the problem is. 

9 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

The gun sounds do not resonate power when used

I don't know about you, but the classic Doom pistol, Chaingun, and Plasma Gun sounds don't exactly emote "power" to me. In fact, I find the Plasma Gun firing sound to be quite grating after enough time. It doesn't detract from my overall enjoyment and appreciation for the game, however. 

I'm not sure why you have such an axe to grind with Doom Eternal, but the industry is full of games that I have no interest in playing. So I just... don't play them. The fact that this is an "official Doom game", and doesn't meet your expectations for such a thing, isn't as big a deal as you seem to want to make it. It's like a band releasing a new album that you don't particularly care for -- those old albums you love are still there, they'll always be there, and you can just appreciate those instead.

I'm not trying to say that there's something wrong with you for not liking the look of Eternal so far, to each their own. But I think you're taking it a little too personally and seriously than is necessary, if I'm being honest. It's just a video game.

You're not alone in hating DooM 4 and are anxious about DooM 5. The whole glory kill mechanic to me personally felt tacked on and, in a way, brutal-doom esque (though unlike BD you're not forced to do them).

DooM and DooM II to me is always me, my shotty, that ugly sun of a gun at the other end of the room and a huge supply of plasma ammo.

DooM 3 was survival horror with a bad shotty but an otherwise fun story driven world.

With 4 I just got disappointment.

This is just me, but I'd like stuff like Amid Evil. That feels more like what we SHOULD have gotten but did not get. Same thing with Dusk, was more retro in looks and feel. I think I will be mocked, but there is a time where something can be TOO Triple A for its own good. 2016 and Eternal are examples of this fact.

8 minutes ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

 

You're not alone in hating DooM 4 and are anxious about DooM 5. The whole glory kill mechanic to me personally felt tacked on and, in a way, brutal-doom esque (though unlike BD you're not forced to do them).

I agree with you except for the optional glory kill mechanic. You HAVE to do them or you will lose, the game does not have enough health or ammo from what I have seen to NOT have need of it. If the mod Doom Foretold is any indication, then you actually suffer more damage for each hit to compensate for the health mechanic, meaning you HAVE to use it, which I despise. The game gets slowed down cuz you gotta cut down each enemy for health like an oxycodone addict has to pop those pill bottles.

At least I am not alone in my thinking. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Maybe  instead of going to the way to imitate Retro FPS, New Doom want to bring they gameplay and arsenal to another level, where they can be original, gameplay and level like, they NOT have to be forced to make a Doom 1 or 2 again, they want you to feel badass and kill demons, that why with the new gameplay as Doom Eternal it's more like this it's brutal.

It's if not your style of game, maybe try Prodeus , it's have a atsmofere as Doom 16, but a gameplay that remind me of Doom 2.

With all the trailers and reviews you should not by now this it's NOT a retro fps. 

Double post, sorry, don't know how to delete

"Why be mad that a new thing is new when the old thing is still there for you to play?"

                                                                                     -Me, just now

Doom has always been cutting-edge tech for whenever a new game comes out. I never expect a new one to be retro, nor have I ever really felt like classifying any game in the franchise as retro.

If you want the same old same old, there are more WADs on /idgames than you could play in a year, if you played as a full time job. Meanwhile, those who want something new can grab that new thing and enjoy that.

D44m was a success, D55m will most likely also be a success. It isn't really aimed at "retro gamers" to begin with, it never was, and it doesn't need to be.

A wad for the original Doom's is not the same thing as a straight up new game with a retro theme which the OP likely wants.

1 minute ago, Avoozl said:

A wad for the original Doom's is not the same thing as a straight up new game with a retro theme which the OP likely wants.

Then OP should try Wrath: Aeon of Ruin or one of the many other new school boomer shooters that have been coming out recently instead of complaining about a game that isn't trying to do that retro thing.

26 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

A wad for the original Doom's is not the same thing as a straight up new game with a retro theme which the OP likely wants.

Edit: Yeah. That's exactly what I am looking for.

6 minutes ago, warman2012 said:

Exactly. That's what I and the crowd wants.

As far as I'm concerned you're speaking only for yourself here. Nobody else needs to inflate their POV by way of representing an imaginary mob, and you're not being taken more seriously if you do. Would also be pretty neat if you could go at least 5 posts in a row without constantly linking the same stupid gifs time and time again.

Now for what you want: There are plenty new games with retro themes available, there are also GZDoom mods which are pretty much a game of their own, like adventures of square for example. So again, there's enough you can get for free, and there's even more if you're willing to shell out 10-20 bucks. I don't see the problem.

Im sure if you aim to this, really try prodeus when it's go live, it's developing a amazing mapcreator as SnapMap, and one of the devs it's Dragonfly (Eviternity as mostly know), that kind of game aim really at retro fps so should be your thing.

Proteus is a step in the right direction...a bit TOO modern looking in some areas. But for what it is, it will do. At least that will have a map editor, which will enable custom content. Now if only the blasted thing will come out...

We are in a retro shooter renaissance. Dusk, Amid Evil, Ion Fury, Wrath Aeon of Ruin which uses the Quake engine, Prodeus which is being worked on by our very own Dragonfly. Take your pick. Stop complaining about how Doom Eternal isn't something it's never going to be. 

I don't like:

1. the monster-spawners (where you rip out the heart and then have predicted arena fight)

2. the monsters looking too different from DoomII style monsters (Imps / Demons / etc). I guess I'm too attached to the originals.

3. forward moving combat. You really HAVE TO move in fights but in Doom you could take it careful and slow if you wanted to. Some areas were even almost stealth. Depends on the map, but you get what i mean. Your fight style needn't incorporate endless running. 

4. Not enough in-fighting. 

These four points are not Doom IMO, but everything else totally kicks ass.

(I'm talking about Doom2016 as well as Eternal, according to gameplay I've seen so far.)

Disagree completely. Doom 2016's combat was more dynamic and engaging for me. I adore Classic Doom but it is extremely predictable. But it's fine to disagree. No one should be mocked for their subjective opinion. For example, no one is going to ever call The Room an objectively good movie. It is quite obviously terrible. But for the right person in the right mindset, it is utterly hilarious and worth the price of admission. Doom 2016 is rightly praised by most people as an objectively well made game on the whole, and most people enjoyed it as good evolution of the classic formula. Retro but with modern flourishes. But some people did not and that is fine. 

Things evolve. If you do not like it do not play it. To expect a major studio to go full retro is misguided. It is simply not going to happen. Stick with classic Doom mods and new retro style FPS like Amid Evil from indie developers.

What defines Doom for me are the speed, distinctive simplicity, and predictability (I mean that in a good way).

Speed is obvious, you're not really subjected to realistic limitations. When I talk about distinctive simplicity, I mean many things. The sound design is so distinctive, you can assess your environment from sound alone. There's relatively not a whole lot going on in your visual environment so it's easy to see your enemy. Everything has a distinctive feel, and you know what every stimulus is and what it means.

This also ties into "predictability". Every monster has its moves and you learn tactics dealing with them. When dodging a mancubus's fireballs: go left - right - left, you can abort a pain elemental's skull children by hugging them, a smoke trail on a revanant missle mean it's homing, etc. Despite RNG, you get a feel for how much damage you're causing. For example, I can predict that an arch-vile will be dead in 3-5 well placed SSG shots or I can kill a cyberdemon with 2-3 point blank BFGs or a baron of hell will die with 4-6 rockets, etc.

Unfortunately I've never played anything passed Doom 3. I literally grew up playing Doom 2, it came out and we got it about the time I was in kindergarten. Though, it's only now that I've gotten deep into Doom and can play at a competitive level. It requires you to develop skill. (I can't tell you how amazing it is to watch demos of *really* good Doomers!!!)

I understand I'm biased in many ways but I think it's in the nature of "realism" for games to forego this kind of simplicity.  To blend the lines is to mimic reality. (I find this same pattern in music but that's a whole other discussion.) However, from *what I've seen*, I think Doom 2016 and Eternal emulate this feel from a *modern* context. For those who grew up playing Halo, Call if Duty, etc., these new Doom games are "back to basics". Sure, they *look* like Brutal Doom for consoles from a classic Doomer's eyes (which did get me back into Doom, all things considered) but that's ultra-violence simplicity in the modern, cinematic videogame perspective!

Art is defined by its limitations. Great art utilizes these limitations to their advantage. Doom vaguely reminds me of chess. Genius is both individual and social. You can't expect something to ever catch Doom's total "feel" again. But the new Dooms do persue that spirit in terms of gameplay.

4 minutes ago, DOEL said:

What defines Doom for me are the speed, distinctive simplicity, and predictability (I mean that in a good way).

 

Speed is obvious, you're not really subjected to realistic limitations. When I talk about distinctive simplicity, I mean many things. The sound design is so distinctive, you can assess your environment from sound alone. There's relatively not a whole lot going on in your visual environment so it's easy to see your enemy. Everything has a distinctive feel, and you know what every stimulus is and what it means.

 

This also ties into "predictability". Every monster has its moves and you learn tactics dealing with them. When dodging a mancubus's fireballs: go left - right - left, you can abort a pain elemental's skull children by hugging them, a smoke trail on a revanant missle mean it's homing, etc. Despite RNG, you get a feel for how much damage you're causing. For example, I can predict that an arch-vile will be dead in 3-5 well placed SSG shots or I can kill a cyberdemon with 2-3 point blank BFGs or a baron of hell will die with 4-6 rockets, etc.

 

Unfortunately I've never played anything passed Doom 3. I literally grew up playing Doom 2, it came out and we got it about the time I was in kindergarten. Though, it's only now that I've gotten deep into Doom and can play at a competitive level. It requires you to develop skill. (I can't tell you how amazing it is to watch demos of *really* good Doomers!!!)

 

I understand I'm biased in many ways but I think it's in the nature of "realism" for games to forego this kind of simplicity.  To blend the lines is to mimic reality. (I find this same pattern in music but that's a whole other discussion.) However, from *what I've seen*, I think Doom 2016 and Eternal emulate this feel from a *modern* context. For those who grew up playing Halo, Call if Duty, etc., these new Doom games are "back to basics". Sure, they *look* like Brutal Doom for consoles from a classic Doomer's eyes (which did get me back into Doom, all things considered) but that's ultra-violence simplicity in the modern, cinematic videogame perspective!

 

Art is defined by its limitations. Great art utilizes these limitations to their advantage. Doom vaguely reminds me of chess. Genius is both individual and social. You can't expect something to ever catch Doom's total "feel" again. But the new Dooms do persue that spirit.

A lot of games often DO let go of simplicity for the sake of Michael Bay big budget COD memelord, GTA absurdity in their executions today. Game devs spend millions of dollars today (that rival movie studios) allow for lousy gameplay in order to have an interactive movie experience and super high def "realism" that isn't even that.

I love the retro feel these days, reminds me of what we had back then, (I sound like a grandpa, HA!). I would like to see the modern casual crowd let go of its obsession towards these super high def projects to allow more like Amid Evil, Dusk, and Proteus to not only thrive, but even out do the big studios, as much of a lofty goal that is.

There is no shortage of maps and mods made for Doom and Doom 2. There is, however, a shortage of new big budget games in the series, that provide a different spin on the existing formula. The retro content is not going anywhere if there's a non-retro game made every four years. 

If by Retro you mean shit like Dusk, WRACK, Wrath and all that shit...Please no.

6 minutes ago, doomsucksass said:

If by Retro you mean shit like Dusk, WRACK, Wrath and all that shit...Please no.

Ok, I know I am a bit obnoxious, but are you really gonna expect any kind of semi-intelligent response from me when your screenname is Doomsucksass?

Edit: I sucked ass that time. Jeezus

Just now, warman2012 said:

 

Ok, I know I am a bit obnoxious, but are you really gonna expect any kind of response from me when your screenname is Doomsucksass?

...You just responded to me.

Wrack, Dusk, and the like are boss. Nuff said.

Love me some retro games! 

I don't know, I appreciate that id is pretty much the only big-ish developer who wants to make a AAA 90's influenced singleplayer FPS in this age of MMS/crafting-survival/Esports-focused/single playmode gimmick/MOBA-influenced/live-service virtual casinos/etc. Closest before D16 we got was what, the Shadow Warrior reboot? And that was more like Serious Sam but with a kick-ass sword and a style ranking system.

Meanwhile there are plenty of awesome retro shooters that have come out and are coming out soon copyright scott miller 3drealms , and awesome stuff for OG Doom still comes out all the time from folks here and elsewhere. Feels like the best of both worlds to me.

What would a new "retro" Doom even be like? Honestly I feel like Prodeus is the closest we can get. It's demons in techbases, ultraviolence, metal riffs, usermap support, and (if memory serves right) actually has some dudes from id Software and Doom community mappers working on it.

1 minute ago, Komenja said:

I don't know, I appreciate that id is pretty much the only big-ish developer who wants to make a AAA 90's influenced singleplayer FPS in this age of MMS/crafting-survival/Esports-focused/single playmode gimmick/MOBA-influenced/live-service virtual casinos/etc. Closest before D16 we got was what, the Shadow Warrior reboot? And that was more like Serious Sam but with a kick-ass sword and a style ranking system.

@warman2012

I also recommend to try "Ion Fury" if you haven't played it before. And of course when mentioning Ion Fury, how can I not mention other Build Engine games like Duke3D, Blood and Shadow Warrior.