Is there a map to practice item grabs, difficult straferun jumps etc?

I mean either a test map or a short map.

I've always wondered why there is no any tutorial/practicing wad where you could be taught how to encounter every monster, how to perform speedrunning tricks, practice platforming, etc. Mods like this would have such a great potential.

I had thought about making a map like this actually, just never got around to it. I did however make a map for practicing glides, both guided and guideless. I'll post it up somewhere when I get the chance.

48 minutes ago, VGA said:

I mean either a test map or a short map.

just play italo_doom, frog, frog_and_toad... that kind of stuff

Difficult SR jumps? There's the jumpmaze series, and on Zandronum there are the official servers, too. 

What about item grabs? I can make a map with a room and a gun on a pedestal but which distances are the minimum for vanilla Doom grabs? I don't know that.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Grab

20 minutes ago, VGA said:

What about item grabs? I can make a map with a room and a gun on a pedestal but which distances are the minimum for vanilla Doom grabs? I don't know that.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Grab

 

Hmm, maybe that plasma rifle in MAP01, I will test that with Chocolate Doom.

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/87199-the-doom-movement-bible/

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/87199-the-doom-movement-bible/

 

Holy shit, what did I get myself into?

E4M2

Of course there is DoomGate's Trainings Camp.

http://doomgate.de/files/dgtc/index.html

or for english readers: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdoomgate.de%2Ffiles%2Fdgtc%2Findex.html

I really like skill-based movement in video games. So a speedrun practice map sounds amazing! It would be fun and helpful at the same time.

I don't understand why y'all are asking for "maps to practise"... All the tricks that have been discovered were found on actual maps you can download and play. Run the maps with the -nomonsters parameter, and just drop a save where you wanna learn a trick. And if that's not good enough, you can always grab a builder, make a simple vanilla or boom format map that has all the geometry you need, and start playing that. Getting what you want out of a doom map has never been easier, because either it already exists, or it can be made in a few minutes.

Zdoom lets you turn off monsters in the menu also. 

On 2/8/2020 at 8:57 PM, dmslr said:

I've always wondered why there is no any tutorial/practicing wad where you could be taught how to encounter every monster

Scythe (very intro), Sunlust (less intro)

On 2/8/2020 at 8:57 PM, dmslr said:

how to perform speedrunning tricks

Scythe, Resurgence, Sunlust, Kama Sutra, Plutonia 2, Alien Vendetta, etc. 

Look up the speedrunning tables for any of these you've played. Take note of unusually quick exits. There might be a trick involved. Watch the run, learn it, and try to get an exit not too much slower -- or even try to beat it. 

29 minutes ago, Asking4Id said:

Zdoom lets you turn off monsters in the menu also. 

Quick reminder that ZDoom physics and overall port behaviour are different from OG DOS doom/Choco/Crispy/PrBoom+ -cl2...

52 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I don't understand why y'all are asking for "maps to practise"...

I've seen it reasonably frequently in other games that players will build practice maps (basically like obstacle courses) that string together every major movement technique into a single nice package. It allows people to easily practice specific techniques without needing to load different maps or navigate to specific areas.

I too am actually kind of surprised there isn't something like this for Doom.

FranckFrag made some maps for JC's (a speedrunner) birthday that all require tricks to exit:

Pretty cool little set.

16 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

I've seen it reasonably frequently in other games that players will build practice maps (basically like obstacle courses) that string together every major movement technique into a single nice package. It allows people to easily practice specific techniques without needing to load different maps or navigate to specific areas.

 

I too am actually kind of surprised there isn't something like this for Doom.

The reason maps like this don't exist, sans the occasional esoteric exception which features a small selection of tricks, is that most tricks in Doom Speedrunning are somewhat limited in terms of application, and tricks like linedef skips or "squeeze glides" behave differently based on the direction of the glide/skip, and then there's also the situation that most tricks are only useful in speeding, but not necessarily in maxing. Therefore, building a map that has "all the tricks" would result in a relatively huge clusterfuck that most people won't need/want to practise to begin with, because they're usually better off working on "that one trick in that one map", due to how most of Doom's speedruns are ILs, whereas "movies" are quite an exception. Likewise, you're better off learning one trick, and developing a decent routine at it, before moving on to the next one, because repetition sticks. Also, on the subject of tricks, not every trick is 100% consistent, even if you know how to do it.

And again, maps that are good for practice purposes already exist. If you wanna get good at SR40/SR50, run doom2 map 31 -nomo and try to get as close to looper's time as possible, that map also helps with doing doors properly. If you wanna practise glides, play for example doom2 map 02. If you wanna get good at platforming, play any platforming map made by ribbiks, ToD, Zzul, etc. If you wanna practise 2 shotting cybers, either play a ToD map like "degrassi", build your own map, or -if spending a few minutes in the editor isn't your thing- take mine: 2s1k.zip

If every trick that has been discovered were useful on a huge chunk of the original maps, nevermind pWADs, then I'm sure a practice map with every trick would have been made long ago. But as it stands, your best shot is building maps with only a few tricks in them, because nobody wants to grind a map with 8 squeeze glides (4 guided and 4 unguided), a couple linedef skips, SR50 platforming, 2-shotting 20 cybers, melee-scamming 20 revs, several void glides and zero presses, and 10 item bumps, several rocket jumps, etc...

12 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

because nobody wants to grind a map with 8 squeeze glides (4 guided and 4 unguided), a couple linedef skips, SR50 platforming, 2-shotting 20 cybers, melee-scamming 20 revs, several void glides and zero presses, and 10 item bumps, several rocket jumps, etc...

Except, as demonstrated by this thread, at least one person: the OP.

I do concede your point though that these tricks are basically rare enough that it's better to practice a map as a whole than it is to focus on a specific isolated movement trick.

But I can see where OP is coming from: these tricks are fascinating quirks of the engine, and being able to perform them, even in the absence of doing any kind of speed runs, has its appeal. I can see why a nice all-in-one training map that doesn't require running nomo or downloading multiple wad files would be attractive to a newer player.

avj.wad http://doomedsda.us/wad1480.html is mostly only about tricks. if you do not like arch-vile-jumps, map12, 21 and 26 do not include them but RJs, SR50 jumps, and wall jumps. except of map32 it is not about killing monsters, but tricks